Borg and Beck clutch?
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Borg and Beck clutch? Does anyone use a Borg & Beck pressure plate these days? I still see them offered by most companies but everything on here (and most sites) seems to indicate that everyone now uses diaphragm pressure plates instead (I would guess because of the lower pedal pressure). I was always brought up with the understanding the due to the coil spring designs of both the Borg & Beck and the Long, they have a better "release" at high RPM.
I had a Spec 3 that I was really happy with till I started shifting beyond 7. At high RPM it would "lock" itself up and WOULD NOT release until the RPM was put back below 6500. When everything was removed and inspected, there did not seem to be any damage or heated areas that would indicate a possible problem. So with this in mind, I'm rather reluctant of doing another diaphragm pressure plate on this setup and really looking at running a Borg & Beck.
Any thoughts? The car is primarily a weekend/track car at this point so I'm not "that" worried about peddle pressure (though I wouldn't just needlessly add pressure just to have it). Performance ENTIRELY wins out in something like this (having a clutch that will not release just ruins the day's fun
).
I had a Spec 3 that I was really happy with till I started shifting beyond 7. At high RPM it would "lock" itself up and WOULD NOT release until the RPM was put back below 6500. When everything was removed and inspected, there did not seem to be any damage or heated areas that would indicate a possible problem. So with this in mind, I'm rather reluctant of doing another diaphragm pressure plate on this setup and really looking at running a Borg & Beck.
Any thoughts? The car is primarily a weekend/track car at this point so I'm not "that" worried about peddle pressure (though I wouldn't just needlessly add pressure just to have it). Performance ENTIRELY wins out in something like this (having a clutch that will not release just ruins the day's fun
). 
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The high RPM shifting problem may be transmission related. I have heard numerous complaints about the tremec transmissions in high RPM shifting applications. I can say from personal experience my Tremec was a little rough at 7200 RPM. My Muncie is a heck of a lot better for that reason. Another problem I had was a sticky clutch disk caused by overly heating it leaving the line at high revvs with too little gear in the rear. The Borg & Beck may be a well involved conversion. I am not that familiar with the 6 speed cars, my brother's Formula was an auto. I like the Borg & Beck myself and find they work better than the diaphram in my high RPM 283/55Chevy setup. You may want to give Mcleod a call. Use a disk with a high friction coefficient to keep static pressure down. Dad used a metalic disk with a light (2000lbs) Borg and Beck to jerk the tires off the ground. Good luck. I hope this helps.
Henry
55 Chevy
Stuborn gear Banger!
Henry
55 Chevy
Stuborn gear Banger!
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Thanks Henry. I am pretty sure the problem is clutch (pressure plate) related in my case. When I would push the clutch pedal in, the clutch WOULD NOT disengage (the engine remained LOCKED to the input shaft of the tranny). I'm not saying the tranny might not have problems (I have never been able to actually get the clutch to disengage at high RPM for me to find out HOW the tranny shifts up there) but I'm working one problem at a time.
I did some measuring/blueprint crossing and it looks like at a min, RAM's Borg & Beck pressure plates will bolt to the LS1 flywheel. I THOUGHT about going with one of those really cool "mini clutches" like the 5-1/2 or 7-1/2 (like HioSSilver mentioned) but the cost was just too much ($1000-$1500) for the potential problems (ie: being able to "live" any amount of time on the street).
I did some measuring/blueprint crossing and it looks like at a min, RAM's Borg & Beck pressure plates will bolt to the LS1 flywheel. I THOUGHT about going with one of those really cool "mini clutches" like the 5-1/2 or 7-1/2 (like HioSSilver mentioned) but the cost was just too much ($1000-$1500) for the potential problems (ie: being able to "live" any amount of time on the street).
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Those Ram Borg and Becks are real stiff on the left leg, but if you can retain the hydraulic release system, It will not be so bad. Just for curiosity, what gears do you run and at what RPM do you leave the line? Do you slip the clutch any to leave?
Henry
Henry
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Originally Posted by Vintage Iron55
Those Ram Borg and Becks are real stiff on the left leg, but if you can retain the hydraulic release system, It will not be so bad. Just for curiosity, what gears do you run and at what RPM do you leave the line? Do you slip the clutch any to leave?
Henry
Henry
I changed the hydraulic system to entirely aftermarket. I removed the stock pedal assembly (pedals, bracket, and masters) and replaced it with a triple master unit (two brake masters and one clutch) from wilwood. I did this because:
a) the stock pedals were just too far up under the dash for me to work them effectively (without being crushed against the steering wheel) since I'm 5'5"
b) to give me more versatility in my master cylinder choices for both breaks and clutch
So I'm going to then install either the RAM or McLeod slave (that still mounts on the input shaft like the stock version).
On the street, I run 4.56gears to keep my RPM up high enough in each gear but once I get the car setup to go racing (road race...not drag) I will have a second center section (why I'm swapping to a 9" from the 12bolt) that will have a lower gear better suited for high speed.
Does someone make a better pressure plate that wouldn't have quite so much static pressure? I had already planned to go with a high friction disc (like the centered iron disc) so I can go with less pressuer.
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Many drag racers use a Long style ajustable with about 2000 - 2200 lbs static pressure with the stintered iron disk. That should provide plenty of holding power with very quick ratio clutch release. A borg and beck with about 2200 lbs pressure should work as well. If you buy a stiffer one, you can always change the springs in the pressure plate. Hays makes a good B & B pressure plate that is 2400 lbs. Pn is 50-105. Place a phone call to hays to be sure it has a ductile iron pressure ring though. I believe it does but you may want to be sure.
Henry
Henry
