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A quick test of the passenger side. I knew it was gonna be shitty routing, but the test confirmed it.. I think I'll move the passenger side motor mount forward the same 1.75" that I did on the driver side, just to get the mount forward and its sharp edges away from the turbo oil drain. It looks like the block has no interference or anything with extending the motor mount adapter plate forward the extra 1.75"...
Doing it is a pain (to me, LOL ) but it does clean it up a lot. Deff. worth doing. I really like the pan. Does the clearance (chamfer) on the pan really help in clearance or just give you more clearance? Does that make sense? LOL
Haha Jimbo I'm not really sure what area you're talking about... there's a couple chamfers. It appears whatever Holley test-fit and mocked up in the process of designing this pan has worked.. it has tons of clearance all around the subframe and steering components.
In other news my replacement shipment for the missing replacement valve shipped yesterday.. hopefully I can get the heads assembled this week and on the short block this weekend, and then mate the flywheel/clutch/trans and put all that back in the car!
The geometric features of the Holley 302-3 oil pan came about as "must-haves" to be able to swap an LS into a Fox Body Mustang on the stock OE K-member. It was also known at the time from my previous LS swap system design experiences that the chamfered corners would also benefit users of the Hooker1st-gen F-body, 3rd-gen X-body and A-body LS swap systems. The higher stroke compatibility and turbo drain back ports were added as universal features. You made good use of that pan frojoe.
Overall the clearances for the pan are surprisingly large. I think as long as someone isn't using the "oem" motor mount pedestals like I previously was (which had a large overhang on the back of the subframe cross-member) and someone uses forward-mounting motor mounts & adapter plates, then the turbo drain line routing shown in my pics shouldn't be an issue.
Not that you would want to go back and do this, but on those oil pan drainback ports, is there room to install a 90 degree NPT-to-AN fitting and run hard line (smaller OD than hose) straight forward along the side of the pan? From the pictures it looks like it might be able to sneak by.
Clint, I was also throwing around that same idea. I was previously planning on routing 2X oil cooler soft lines between the motor mount pedestal and the block, including a heat protective sheath around them, but room for that is looking slim. I really liked the block-hugging design of the stock truck oil cooler hard lines, but the ID of them was just too small in my opinion. Jamming an extra 5/8" hard line line in there might be tight. I would prefer stainless over aluminum just for vibration resistance, however either material hard line would need to be supported to the block in at least 1 other spot, so vibration fatigue might not be a problem with aluminum.
Last night I made the passenger side block-mounted adapter plate pushing the passenger engine mount forward 1.75".. but I haven't started modifying the subframe mount pedestal yet. Before I do that work... this has me thinking about the idea of remaking the driver side motor mount pedestal out of 100% fabricated thick-wall tube for the horizontal bolt, and reinforced rectangular tube as the vertical support, to open up room on the inboard side of the pedestal (between it an block) as well as on the outboard side (near downpipe).
Only unknown headache would be.. how to attach hard line to AN 90* fitting? Only options I can think of are:
1) find an industrial shop to flare the 5/8" tube to a 37* JIC flare
2) buy a -10AN steel male bung and weld it to the end of a stainless tube, use a 90* female -10AN to 1/2" NPT
Red is the 100%-fabricated motor mount pedestal, blue is a 90* -10AN male to 1/2" NPT, purple is 5/8" tube with bend and flared for a -10AN tube nut....
Since I had already alotted some time after work today to modify the passenger side motor mount pedestal, and after the chat today, I just couldn't bring myself to waste time on hacking up the original pedestal, so I just went ahead and rough tacked-together a 100%-fabricated pedestal for the passenger side...... and then for the driver side too haha.
I'll test fit this weekend, and if it all fits well, will reinforce with gussets and stuff. My thinking is, it's new steel, thicker than original, and will allow plentiful room for hard/soft line routing... so no reason not to go down this route instead..
That's a common design for rock crawlers/buggies. I'm sure it'll work great and I like that you have more options for plumbing. I kinda liked the modified OEM stand but these are more functional.
With regards to the hardline and AN fittings, it's really not as hard as you might think. You slip a nut and sleeve into the tube and then single flare the end of the tube to 37deg. Below is what a typical assembly looks like. On the far right is the tube flare, then in the middle is the sleeve, and on the left is the nut.
For flaring, I use a Ridgid 41162 377 flaring tool which can do up to 3/4" (-12) and cost about $100. It has an eccentric anvil that rolls around the tube to make the form rather than trying to form the entire flare at once. The Eastwood tool you bought doesn't go up that big - I think it maxes at 3/8" (-6). For the fittings themselves, I prefer to use steel JIC fittings, sleeves, and nuts. JIC uses the same 37deg flare as AN, it's common to hydraulics, cheaper, and less likely to be damaged (steel vs aluminum). You would also need a quality bending tool. I like the Ridgid 400 series benders which are available up to 1/2" (e.g. P/N 36132 model 408). You'd need to check if the bend radius will be tight enough, recognizing that you will need some stickout on the end for making the flare. From your marked-up photos it looks like you have enough room for that routing but it's really hard to say.
Something I'm not familiar with with turbo oiling is how do you control the flow/pressure so you don't lose system pressure for the rest of the engine? Where do you source oil for the turbos? Is a big 1/2" return line really necessary? If you are flowing enough oil to necessitate that large of a line for both turbos, aren't you robbing a lot of oil from the engine?
That's all great info, thanks Clint/Jimbo/Andrew. I'm aware of the general process of it all, but the part numbers for those tools as well as your experience is a huge help!
For turbo's and engine system oil pressure, a journal bearing turbo will produce the necessary restriction in the turbo center section to prevent the turbo from "bleeding off". For ball bearing center section turbo's, there is a necessary fixed orifice restriction that usually comes installed in the turbo center section inlet from the factory, to introduce restriction and prevent oil pressure bleed off.
What I'm also thinking is with all this new-found room, I might try to use a 90* 1/2" NPT male to -10AN male adapter, clocked forward and upwards 45*, and then use a hose with 45* -10AN end to clear the subframe (if necessary) and prevent making hard lines. I will test fit all this stuff this weekend and see what looks to work best.
What I'm also thinking is with all this new-found room, I might try to use a 90* 1/2" NPT male to -10AN male adapter, clocked forward and upwards 45*, and then use a hose with 45* -10AN end to clear the subframe (if necessary) and prevent making hard lines. I will test fit all this stuff this weekend and see what looks to work best.
Joe,
You may also want to look into a specialized hose end. Various manufacturers make a swivel hose end that has a built in NPT on it, instead of the usual female AN. Like this:
Wow.. thanks for that tip Andrew. I feel like I've come across that at some point in the past, but I totally forgot!
Glad to help. A couple of my buddies are doing turbo builds, and we recently had discussions about this very issue. I would even consider going AN -12 for the drains. As I understand it, the bigger the better...
Sounds good. Yes bigger is better for the least possible oil restriction, but the turbo oil drain flanges I have are -10AN, and the oil pan is 1/2" NPT which is bang on the right ID for a -10AN... and in the name of tight packaging I think I'll just keep with -10. I didn't have any oil drainage issues on my previous turbo setup.
04-21-2018, 11:24 PM
