Be curious of the actual metallurgy of this FI drum.....

I think the design of it and with the 79 drum threaded cap, custom wide steels, and wide frictions would be awesome. Probably be expensive though.

 

I had Mason machine a smart tech drum for me to fit his wider 3-4 clutches,Worked well but his clutches were kind of thin and I didn't want to be stuck relying on him for clutches,So I modified/machined down the ring gear so TH350 clutches would fit,I needed to make up space so I used a TH350 steel and trimmed the ears a little,Car is 3745lbs with me in it running 10.00 135mph

 

Nice, will be interesting in tear down to see if hot spots at bolt locations. though I have had a couple these in a lathe after a low presure burn up and they in each case where still pretty flat with .002 .

 

Someone ask me at what point of leakage do i oring and address leaks with bore plugs . valves etc, The answer is I always do regardless all units are treated as if they leak like a sift and handled accordingly.
i have found that it less time consuming as a ine man show to to fix them as if they leaks rather than trying to to determine if they leak . Most time snow they do anyway.

 

I recently looked over a substantial amount of Frank's 4L60E Valve-Body Posts/ Images again.

Frank "Bar None" has thought out/ designed, tooled, and created the MOST extensive O-Ring Sealed (closing up as much fluid/ circuit leakage) Parts Package available TODAY for the 4L60E.

He has taken some high-quality O-Rings and a Lathe to most every single location that you could want sealed!

From creating O-Ring Sealed End-Plugs for practically everything, to Lathe cutting higher ratio Boost Valve Sleeves (in Three locations) all the way to the Intermediate-Overdrive Servo Assembly Apply Pin; and using Three O-Ring Seals here too! (One seal to the Servo Body, and Two seals to the Case-Bore).

I am partial to Solid Teflon Sealing Rings against the Case-Bore (big leak!!!) myself, and my Father turned Frank on to the idea...
But non the less, Frank has run with it and really done an amazing job!!!

I would pose to all of you and say: Look to Frank's Custom Transmissions for all your 4L60E Valve-Body sealing needs.
Forget Sonnax or TransGo! Frank's is far more comprehensive!!! No need to go elsewhere!

When I can get a small business going again, I will be going to Frank for all of his Wares!

 

Thanks Man and new stuff pops up all the time . I will just be building along and be like hmm. That third ring in the pin happened cause i noticed they all had some play new and old . So I did a few test and it really leaked there by a surprising amount. So far on the orings I don't have super long term durability data . But I did get the tear one down with 30k miles to clean up after a converter spattered and during tear down tested still 0 leaks at pin bore and no visible sign of wear on the orings , The green was still there. The third pin ring for second servo is a recent addition but it does and wil seal what is a considerable leak in the 3rd accum side of the circuit . I am not however real worried about the durability of the rings, They are always oiled and movement is very limited as far rub wear.

Also made a recent change in the 3-4 set some might think odd. Only in the HD TOWING units I elected to go with a thinner apply (with back yard heat treating) and then deep step where the snap ring goes in the backing plate .(similar to the fwd backing plate on the 4r70w) to allow 7 thin frictions with .90 steels . It is my belief that even though the apply is thinner the very thick steels will shore up any lost integrity while greatly increasing heat dissipation.

These are things I rarely had opportunity to do in my former position or if I did it had to be slid in without much if any interruption in the builds and build times/test. And even though to an extent I still have that to deal with, Working for myself I have much more leeway to do these things and improvement's as I never let myself get trapped into the got to get it done circle . So I can and do take the time to study implement changes, improvements. fixes as I go. As you that build know making these mods requires not only what they will do to the primary subject . But also how they will affect other functions intertwined . One could literally make a full time job of just study yes even still the 60e and certainly others and creating new and better ways to improve them and of course since I do not yet have a dyno any changes have to be very very deeply thought out and implemented.
This also limits how far I can go as i need to make sure whatever I do will either make it better or at the very least keep it the same as it was.
Thanks again .

 

Frank would you ever consider marketing your valve body and servo sealing parts for those of us who don't have access to a lathe. Call it Frank's 4L60e Super Duper Sealing & Shift kit. It's a working title.

 

I did mention that a while back. The answer is yes but not whole VB but the plate predone except feed holes but with instruction of what sizes yield what results, oringed components (caps-bore plugs- band pin-boost valve- springs , overun mod) sure .
But I think I did mention it earlier and because I would have to source all parts NEW (Example I can reuse bore plus as with the oring the result is the same new or old , same with end caps ) But have no used source so would have to purchase new then modify . This made the kit rather costly though easy enough to do .
The kit I proposed included:
BONDED PLATE - 95 TO 2008
BORE PLUGS ORINGED
END CAPS FOR CONVERTER REGULATOR AND 4-3 VALVES..
GENTLY OVERSIZED AFL VALVE
LONGEST GM BAND PIN ORINGED WITH BAND CLEARANCE INSTRUCTION
ALUM FWD AND SECOND ACCUMS
SPRING OPTION FOR VB ACCUM
NEW GM .500 BOOST VALVE TRIPLE ORRINGED
MODDED 2-3 SHIFT VALVE AND SPRING
SPRING FOR CONVERTER REGULATOR VALVE
CORVETTE SERVO WITH PIN ALREADY INSTALLED BUT NO 4TH SERVO
2ND SERVO -4L80E RETURN SPRING.
DRILL BIT FOR BAND COOLING MOD.

All could be installed with or without trans in vehicle.

But to make it worthwhile between all the new aparts and machine time would have to charge in the 250 range shipped to make it worth while . Which some voiced the opinion that was a bit pricy so I abandoned the idea. One guy did buy one from me overseas along with a while rebuild kit and 2-3 clutch set up , servos and all I initially only charged him my cost as I did not know exactly what it was gonna be . He paid that with the promise we would settle up the rest afterward. I shipped and then he ghosted me. I think he just wanted all to figure how to duplicate , I intitial idea was once we figured total cost he would buy more for his units , But as I said he ghosted me , So while his payment initially did cover my cost all but time and labor. It was a loss otherwise.
I am still open to the idea however for the simple shift kit I mentioned above. I wont to the full build kit again however.
But the shift kit is easy enough- compatible with 95 through 2008 and can be set up for 93-94 and 2009 up on request but at little higher cost as must use a transgo plate for those as I have not yet figured out how to order the GM bonded plate for the 2009 up and of course the 93-94 does not exist.
The 95 to 2008 can all use the same plate contrary to some belief so easy peasey. I know this cause been doing it for years, the difference in the plates make no difference in that period as far as my purposes.

As usual you got way more answer than you planned on. lol

 

Just wanted to show what I deal with all the time from local “builders” and shops. This trans on my bench right now has failed iirc he said three times at the hands of a now defunct local trans shop. The vehicle is a Chevy truck, 5.3 with a very small cam. 3-4 kept burning up. So what does this guy do? Puts a Z pack (YUCK!) in it and ramps the pressure way up so that at part throttle it chirps the ties on the 1-2. Result? Destroyed output shaft and 3-4 still slipping! You’d think that a shop that’s been in business for years would know this:

 

Frank, reading through your mods list, I'm curious about this one...

Low reverse clutch mod turns on the low reverse clutch in first gear to protect and massively increase low roller holding on extreme power launches D3 position only.

 

Yes I have a few methods of doing this but have not actually done it recently , Which is why I haven't shown it. but will when I do . MarroonMonster did send me his method with some additional mods but I am not at liberty to show those. I will however at earliest time do one and take photos . IT SIMPLE enough but needs photos to make sense IMO.

 

I see hydraulically how this would work, but are you guys saying that while driving with the gear-selector in the D3 range, that every time the transmission is in first-gear, you want the low-reverse clutch applied?

Or is this something that will be electrically activated; or even electronically in software?

 

The way I do it, its fed only in D3 M2 and M1 assuming car does not have second gear start in M2 which some do . Basically it just turns on the LOW / REV set any time you are in one of those positions and 1ST gear is commanded. I have only done in a hand full of extreme power cases like a vet with well over 1000 rwhp that actually hooked and he kept shattering the low roller on launches was the first and it solved the issue.
But note as with the overun mod the LOW/REV MOD has a rather extreme down shift feel . Much more so that the 3-2 clunky feeling of the OVERUN MOD which is why I set it up to only work in D3 2 1 as it would likely get real annoying in everyday driving if allowed in D4 position. Its a simple enough mod but does require blocking the m1 passage past the Manifold switch feeding 1-2 valve . Then a tube to direct former OR oil to the 1-2 shift valve. Marroonmonster did show me some ideas on how to mitigate that however I may incorporate next time I feel need to use that mod or build a stage max which is only one I include it in.

 

Okay so there is no electric or electronic control of the function of this Modification.

I'm going to add this to my list to experiments, and see if I can implement an add-on aluminum block for a solenoid and oil transfer tubing...
This way I can wire an electrical circuit to switch the solenoid and Low-Reverse Clutch ON.
Not at all dissimilar from a Trans-Brake electrical circuit.

 

Hello again )
After my mod with blocking 3-2 checkball and use 3-2 orifice as 2-3 (and enlarging actual 2-3 to 0.150 to eliminate it as orifice) I drove enough to make some new tuning )
Overall its good
But at some scenarios (and mostly when tranny cold) I have delayed 3-2 with overrev (looks like 3-1-2) for tenths of seconds
And sometimes 2-3 happens too long for my taste (too soft )
It happens rarely and always when oil cold (not much because its summer) and start of driving (less than 10 mins)
At light throttle it feels like little bit overlap when shifts 2-3 (hesitation for tiny moment with loss of acceleration ) but stable and fast from medium to hard acceleration
Perfectly shifts 2-3 at full throttle but little bit lazy without positive push
Torque management ON
I wanna enlarge 3-2(2-3) orifice but I dont wanna have more long 3-2 shifts when enlarging 3-2 allows oil flush off from 3rd piston fast but oil trapped in 3rd area of servo not gets fast enough to release 2nd servo piston to lock the band
I have 3 options as I see now
Play with additional pressures at shift and TQ management cutting torque more and not only UP but also down
Enlarge band release hole (now 0.106 or so) to maybe 0.120 and enlarge 2nd feed to 0.093 (now 0.078 if I remember correct)
Block checkball and use BR not only downshift but upshift too to prevent laziness of 2-3 shift (but I afraid it will worsen light shift at cold oil becase not I fell slight drag for tiny moment)
What will be more suitable for me ?
I also wanted to check mod with reroute 4nd accum as 3rd accum to help 2-3 hard shift because now I dont have hard 2-3 at all in any scenarios
And I mostly feel "laziness" when overtaking at 2nd at full throttle and shifts to 3rd when release pedal - I think in that moment overall pressure drops and speed of engaging 3dr not enough to make it quick

 

I cannot say I have played with it as you are, i used .110 on the 3-4 clutch feed and arround.093 on the 3rd accum / band release most times don't have to do anything to this one with the plates I use as the 3rd accum is always pretty close to that size . "servo feed I do at .093 and 2nd depending on application is .083 to .093 using the vet servo.

The only time I deviate is with the superior pancake servo then i do .083 max on apply side and .110 with the accum and .110 with the 3-4 apply and still .093 with the servo feed . This sis because the servo has no front rear size differential and realistically the band release is really just the return spring in the bore for which I use one from a th400/4l80 int bad servo as its a little stiffer.

I also don't block the 3-2 regulator valve .
I am however with your feed sizes you don't get a more aggressive 2-3 . I mean it wont hit hard like 2nd would but at .110 should be a decent bump on the 2-3
But with your delayed 3-2 or 3-1-2 you mention I suspect you have a leak in the 3-4 clutch circuit which would also explain the softer than expected 2-3
A leak would allow faster release of the 3-4 clutch before the band could come on thus 3-1-2 .

 

this is why I don’t go trying to reinvent the wheel and jack with all of that. You’ll end up chasing your tail. The trans works perfectly from the factory. You fix the weak points and slippage and you’ll have a very nice shifting trans that will hold 500-600-700+hp. seems like you don’t constantly pulling it to keep trying to get it right….but….

there are temperature based multiplier tables in the pressure section that may help.

 

Yes you can overdo reinventing the wheel.
The factory design is actually pretty good, And I agree with the exception of adding my FT OVERUN mod. 2-3 valve spring and fixing the leaks .All you really need after that is clutch/band apply feed sizes to suit what you goal of shift feel wise and according to power. And of course a boost valve set up that will yield at least 200 to 220 max line.
beyond that some upgraded frictions, band, sunshell and you are good .
I devote the majority if my time to 3-4 clutch leaks and not trying to re-engineer the 2-3 3-2 as I feel sure GM spent a crapload of time on that already .

I do not block the 3-2 valve. I do not do away with the encapsulated ball in case . I just make sure none of it leaks .

 

ITS pretty simple to do, When I mentioned it I planned to come back and post it as soon as I got a plow truck or stage max . But of course neither has come in lol.
Basically You block the channel from the M1 part of manual valve just after the feed to the Pressure switch, Then you connect orifice D3 oil to the second from end to inside of the 1-2 shift valve, You can alternately use d4 or even line, Does require a tube. Then whenever it goes to first it turns in the low/rev clutch. In very high end performance cars and trucks i do it with D3 oil so in normal driving you don't feel the 2-1 so aggressively . Plow trucks i take it from fwd or line , This was the low roller does not take such a shock on the constant FWD REV FWD REV ETC these trucks do. But on next unit while i wont be doing it , I will mark up a body and show how.
Few tears back had a vet with slicks and 1000 rwhp that could hook and he kept exploding the sprag and that was my solution and indeed solved it.
And then integrated it into snow plow trucks locally and the low roller us what they tend to kill the most that and the sprag , So low roller mod and overun mod they get .

 

We actually do it right here
In different ways cause we feel different
And share our experience here
I know and I mentioned above I wanna play with pressure adder to downshifts
And wanna write some log with HPT to use pressure sensor to compare demanded and actual pressure from cold to hot
___________________________________________
I remembered it )

I doubt it cause I triple checked all with air before assembly
I think my 2-3 problems related to bigger checkball at 2nd (#8) -
And slow 2-3 only happened when I released throttle right before shift and cold oil -looks like oil from 2nd flushes off too fast because of larger area of checkball
I will play further with separator holes - I know I can resolve it with modifying trans calibrations but I wanna first make it as good as I can at stock PCM parameters