Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

I am assembling a 496 that will be competing in a local 10.5 street car class, and wanted to get some suggestions about my combo.
454 4-bolt block, .060 over, o-ringed, all machine work performed.
Callies stroker crank, .25 over.
Eagle steel rods.
Wiseco pistons, compression undetermined, have to get them milled.
GMPP iron square port heads, inconel valves, ported by local head guru.
Dart single plane intake, Ron's Racing Flying Toilet injection system.
Roller cam, unsure yet as to specs.
MSD Ignition.
Custom built headers, likely stainless.
Single turbo, have yet to decide size.
TH-400, built by local shop.
Car will be running on Methanol, with the intention of running mechanical fuel injection, but might go with a Dominator instead to be able to compete in a street class in Missouri. We are open to suggestion on many areas of this build, as this is the first serious door car I have built. This is also the first time I have played around with a turbo drag car. The goals are to put a full weight, back-halved '71 El Camino into the low 5's in the 1/8 mile. Please feel free to offer up any suggestions you might have.

Lurch84

Just send all of your parts to my house and start over thats the best i can recommend.

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

well, i'm going to be honest with you, and myself. first, i'm not an expert by any means. now for you. i have serious reservations about the life expectancy of your motor and trans. i'll start with the trans since that's the easiest one. don't just get some local built trans unless the guy knows not just what he's doing and how to assemble one, but knows what parts need to go in so it, and you, survive! the kind of power you'll need to make to accomplish your goals could easily cause a drum explosion that can seperate you from your legs. i don't know if you realize how much power it will take to put you in the low 5's, but i can tell you it'll have to be in the area of 1500hp!!! the head and block setup alone that you have chosen aren't going to be compatible with that kind of power. i would suggest at least getting a Chevy Bowtie block , i think that's what their racing block is called, because a standard 4 bolt block would likely not support the power. and as for your heads, i have not seen anyone making big power using iron heads, but i can't say that it's impossible. i just would not recommend it because of the amount of heat you're going to be building. and for a turbo, i'd say at least a large 94mm, but more than likely a 101mm. now for the headers.....you'll need at least 304 stainless, but i would strongly suggest you go with 321 and spend the extra money, it's definately worth it. cam.....obviously a solid roller, but contact a custom race engine builder who's done a bunch of turbo setups. and as for the rotating assembly, i'd just run the list by the engine builder while you've got him on the phone and ask what his thoughts are on the longevity of them. take your time, and don't skimp. nothing's worse than building a killer engine that doesn't last past the first trip to the track and blowing all that dough. hope that helps.

Dave

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

The guy building my trans definitly knows what is going on as far as building a strong enough trans. He claims that it should live up to near 2,000 hp. I guy here in IA used his TH400s a few years ago to run a Pro Mod Chevelle. I don't remember what all he said about the internals, because that is his area of expertise and not mine. We have also considered a Powerglide as well. The block will likely be Hardblok'd and possibly epoxied, but I have a Rodeck alum. block already lined up. The deal with the heads is that a friend that we race with recommended those particular heads, claiming that they are less likely to fail with the heat and cylinder pressures. Some of the main reasons for running aluminum is to cut down on weight, the fact that they are repairable in the event of damage, and to be able to run higher compression due to being able to dissipate heat faster. With iron, we will be able to retain the heat better, and the head will be more stable, allowing better head gasket sealing and negating the need for a stud girdle. People that we race with are utilizing the exact same heads to run low 6's in the quarter in a front-motor Top Fuel digger. Gotta love VRA rules. Anyway, I have a fresh set of Pro-filer spread-ports to use for next year. This year will be more of a learning phase, as I have yet to try to get a fast doorslammer down the track.

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

LOL........sounds to me like you didn't need any suggestions then.

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

Always looking for suggestion. Thank you very much for your help so far. I was actually considering 314 stainless for the headers. I have a friend who is going to teach me how to TIG this week, so that should be interesting. I am still wondering about the turbo. Some of the people I have talked to about this combo have suggested twins, and I have to say that it does soung appealing. But this is all foreign territory to me. Blown nitro is where I specialize in, turbo alcohol is alien for me. Can't wait to get this thing on the track, though. Please, keep the info and the help coming!

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

Also, what about oil contamination from the methanol taking out the turbo bearings? Oil doesn't last very long in an alky motor, it always gets all milky. Does anybody have any experience with this?

68maro

first problem is get rid of any parts with the wiseco name on them if you want it to live.

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

I'm guessing you don't like Wisecos?

68maro

nope they have really short skirts and are famous for scarring cylinder walls. the piston is fairly strong but they don't make power and like i said they're skirt design is horrble.

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha. We ran them in the past on a few bracket race motors, and I don't remember having that issue, but our motors never ran for very long anyway. I have another set of pistons that I can get a hold of from a friend, but they are a high-growth piston, and definitly would not live if I were ever to have to complete a street cruise for one of these races. Looks like I might have to look for another set of slugs. I'm thinking we have Venolias in our dragster, but I'm not sure. We change fairly often.

Mr.L88

iTrader: (1)

I like the sound of this! Budget fast with a capital B! It will work; but it won't be as easy as bolting it on and letting it rip. One thing that you might consider is your injection system. Ron's should be able to help out here. With a N/A mechanical injected engine the injectors are usually "vented" to the atmosphere. This allows for air to enter at the enjection nozzle and mix with the fuel. There is usually a foam ring around this type of injector that serves as a filter. Due to the fact that the intake is pressurized on a boosted system the nozzle must be internally vented to prevent blowing fuel out into the engine compartment. Like I said before Ron's will know about this. The other thing is that you are more than likely going to need two sets of injectors. This is not something related to fuel supply needs; but rather boost vs. N/A fuel curves. Hillborn markets a boost regulated valve that works similar to a boost ref. regulator on an E.F.I. car. This will help make the transition from N/A to boost managable. Think of it this way. A mechanical system is dependent on R.P.M. to supply fuel. The boost of a turbo is 3D, in that high Boost "air flow" can be present at low R.P.M. when under high load (trans brake). The fuel sytem on a turbo engine must be responsive to the airflow produced by the turbo since the engine is being force fed instead of relying on the liniar airflow needs needs that an N/A or Cent. blower would dictate. Don't make the mistake of thinking that since John Doe is running a procharged BBC with the same fuel sytem that you are looking at that a Turbo will work just as well. Speaking of Procharger...you might look at a blow through carb for you set-up. Please wait before you laugh, as this is not like anything that you have seen on the market yet! I have a friend who has made more than 2000C.H.P. and 1500ft.lbs with a single blow through C&S specialties carb and a procharger on his BBC. I referenced this vehicle in one of my other posts stating it's 900W.H.P. @ 90mph before shredding the Mickeys rear wheel atempt. This is one of our local 10.5W cars. The company that makes the carb has several street cars in the St. Louis area that are running this system and making in the 900h.p. range. One of these cars is built around a crate 502. If you already have the fuel thing figured out please forgive my long post if not I hope that I headed you in the right direction.

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

Mr.L88, thank you for your detailed post. I have talked to Vaughn at Ron's, and he expressed your exact same concerns, and stated that it has been addressed on other vehicles. I am strongly considering running a blow-through 4-bbl on this motor, both to ease some of the possible tuning issues, and also to be legal to run in a street car shoot-out that I heard about in Missouri. Again, thank you for your advise, it was spot-on.

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

It looks like this engine combo might go into a certain '98 V6 Camaro I'm picking up this week. Headers are gonna be a bitch, but it's all good. I'm thinking the engine bay is going to get cramped quickly. Might get to test the limits of F-body suspension. I'm thinking I can build this combo, and run hard consistantly, without leaning on it and burning **** up. Getting REAL tired of doing that with the dragster.