thanks... names rich.. nice to meet ya. nice car ya got..

 

So, are you saying that having 50 years under the belt of the GEN1 doesnt mean crap to the GEN3/4? Yeah, I see what you are saying about the technology being different but when you redesign an engine do you think that you can pull all the tricks out of the hat at once? I dont think so myself.
The point i made about the fuel injection was if you were to get a complete LS engine with harness and injectors and all sensors it would be cheaper to jump into FI then small block chev. From what I have read and witnessed. FAST isnt really cheap and cant say really expensive but i believe more expensive when talking about engines for the street. Also, if you think the technology was all in the angle of the valve then think again cause i also think that the cathedral port is much different than the GEN1 port. Sure they have used combustion chamber design from advancements with the GEN 1 but hey thats not all of it. I still think that once you see these blocks and heads coming from the various aftermarket companies it wont be long before they exceed the GEN1. You cant expect GM to build an engine from scratch with everything in mind. I have to admit, if i was going to build an all out effort comp engine as small block i would prolly go GEN1. It still would cost though. And no i dont think it would be half as much as the GEN3/4 i think the cost would be closer to one another than half. Aftermarket blocks, custom crank, custom rings, pistons, lifters, all that custom stuff in those power building builds cost extra. That is just some of those extras also.

 

10 years is not all at once..but actually its 50 years of technology in the ls motors .and im sayin the technology in the ls motor is not any different or better from the sbc or will be.the 18 degree motor was the transition into better design and it was in the heads.

fuel jets in a carb are cheaper to replace then fuel injectors when u need to upgrade to more fuel and then u need a program and a laptop to even start tuning.. all u need is tools to tune a carb.

im telling you all the technology isin the valve angle because if it was all in the port design they would of just stuck with the cathedral port design only.. instead they needed to change the valve from sbc 23* to a hell of a jump to 15" ,,,,,,,and i beleive it was needed because the cathedral design wasnt better then the proven design nascar uses and nhra which is not cathedral, so they changed the valve angle to make the flow better like nascar and nhra designs..
anything custom is going to be top dollar.. but thats not what the average person would want.. they would want off the shelf forged internals..
i just checked ebay..
ls1 4340 eagle crank -725.00
sbc 4340 eagle crank----- 479.00
summit
ls1 4340 eagle crank -1059.00
sbc 4340 eagle crank----- 659.00
same price difference with je pistons as well..
so please tell me where the ls1 is cheaper..

 

why do you need a crank and pistons or even rods when a well set up car can run in the high 10s with a stock bottom end...there is even a guy with a 1200hp tta using a stock crank...my friends 2000 is making enough mph for mid/low 10s if he could get it to hook better with a cam/exhaust/tires and nitrous


for 1300 i can buy a whole lq9 6 liter bottom end, the heads i want with port work/springs for 1500....the intake i can get with injectors/tb/fuel rail for 500....cam is another 350 for the ms4...a motor similar to this make almost 500hp/tq to the rear wheels....how is that not cheap?...


to build a sbc 383 with similar power to this and keep it streetable is going to be a factor on what cam is used....chevy rumble bult a low comp 383 using the extreme energy 284hr cam which has alot of duration with a set of afrs and a rpm air gap and made 543 flywheel hp....the bottom end to handle this will cost more than 1300 to build up reliably....the cam is i think 259 and the intake was another 200...then you gotta factor in the carb and for a good one you're paying atleast 500...then you got a set of 1400 heads blah blah....

 

Nobody is arguing the HP/dollar value of the LS1 vs SBC in a mild build. We're talking real high performance stuff here, not 500HP street motors

 

if we are talking all out race then why not compare sbc to jet engines?



we are comparing a sbc and a ls1...and thats what i am comparing....more people have 500hp street motors than race engines...

 

Marc 85Z28 , lets then compare the high end stuff and not eagle

i still believe, from what i have seen as far as pricing , that in the high end an LS series isnt going to be like comparing a small countries debt to a person loan (ls vs sbc build) i think they are gonne be close to the same.
The 950 FWHP engine you had list at 15-1 was 28k... 15-1... yeah i think you can do that with the C5R, WarHawk or the new GM LSX iron block. I would choose the warhawk for the added head bolts.

 

y people go with aftermarket crank is that 10s aint cuttin it no more..and its the norm of what people do to the ls motors here locally to keep up with my car.


thus y i said if you can get some good "deals" then thats going to be the best route..all im sayin is a can do the same for less.
your comparing apples to oranges..

 

i have 7000 dollars in my motor including all machine work and it will handle 1200 to the crank. and i am still a 23degree motor .. and i can sell my heads for probabl 2500 invest another 1000 for some 12 degree heads and be putting down around 700 or so to the ground on motor alone... then i would be at 8000 dollars or so.
here is an a close setup i have cept i have some of the upgraded stufflike whats on the second example and i have less ci.....http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_685.asp
here is what i would have with just 15* heads. second example ...http://www.shafiroff.com/sportsman/434_825.asp
and mind you this is done with a short deck motor.. not a tall deck like the ls motors. u dont want to see whats done with sbc dart tall deack iron eagle blocks, like our 500 cubic inch sbc.

 

that engine is 14.8-1
here is the first warhawk build?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=422
amazing what high comp can do.

edit: the 14.8-1 is the 725 for 10,600
685 is 14-1 for those of you who arent going to vist that website.

 

They'll crack 1000HP N/A with ET valve canted heads on around 420 ci. Won't be too long

 

And oh, 500CI will just be icing on the cake

 

This thread really cracked me up....

 

The GM LSX block should be a show stopper.

 

or two 500 hp builds and one being cheaper and more streetable

 

and thats just your modest opinion without any solid proof .

 

so a cam with 242/248 duration is a very tame cam on the street?....seems a bit high on the duration side right?

 

so i can understand you better what is it you are trying to argue now ?

 

how about read what people are posting before you try and discredit what they are saying...that cam had to do with the 383 build i was comparing to a 6liter build for hp...that is what we are doing right...comparing a gen3 and gen1 engine for cheapness to buiild and see what one is better?


that cam would not be very street friendly with that much duration...thats what i was implying between two builds that make roughly the same hp

 

Here`s a small block chevy making over 1100++ hp NA. very expensive.

480" SBC