ls1-ss

iTrader: (1)

What do you mean by a fake ws6 t/a ragtop...1 of 42?

The car is bone stock and he ordered it for his wife brand new. It's an automatic as well, I will see if I can find out more info on it although it may not be till spring when it comes out of storage.

JohnnyBs98WS6Rag

iTrader: (1)

What he's saying is, Formula convertables were not suppose to be available to the "public" in the '98 and up model years. However, 2 Formula converts "slipped out the door" (actually, the story is that these two cars were special ordered by the owner of a Pontiac dealership, in Kansas I believe, for promotional purposes). These two cars both came equipped with WS6 and were both red. So the possibilities for your friend's car are:

1) It's one of the 42 Purple (non-WS6) T/A 'verts that was built and possibly has a WS6 hood and other parts on it to make it a "clone", and it is being confused as being a "Formula".
2) It's one of the 2 Purple WS6 T/A 'verts that was built, and it is being confused as being a "Formula". However, I know that one of these 2 purple WS6 T/A 'verts was a Pontiac promotional car and has appeared in several magazines, sometimes with a side decal kit similar to what was used on the '99 30th Daytona Pace cars.
3) It's one of those aforementioned 2 red WS6 Formula 'verts and was repainted purple.
4) It's one of the 20 purple Firebird (V6) 'verts built (pretty rare too) and had a WS6 hood and other parts added to make it a "clone", and it is being confused as being a "Formula" (easy to do unless you look under the hood).

In any case, something is fishy about your claim.

Also, Purple was not available on any Firebird after '98.

ls1-ss

iTrader: (1)

Well now i'm intriuged, i will definately look into this a little more, I don't know the guy personally I just talked to him at a car show and assumed he was legit. It is a ls1 and it did have the upgraded exhaust from the factory as well as the ws6 hood, but that could have been added on. Is there anything in the vin code that would give away it's true idenity that i can look for?

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

That was the Pete Estes car,if I remember correctly someone stole the documentation out of the owners wifes car at the auction.If you equate rare as being proportionate to valuation,this is indeed THE rarest camaro of any generation,even more so than the ZL1's which are approaching 1mil where as this car is closer to 2mil currentely jmho.

grb

Just an aside here, LateBrakeU2 - you must be the same guy by the same user name on The Yenko Net/Supercar Forums. If so, are you following the current 02 ZL1 thread? That thread is a powder keg if the right people see it. The claim that a street '69 ZL1 could beat an 02 427 is a weird one. I've driven several phase II GMMG cars and I will bet the farm even they would leave a '69 like it was sitting still! A strong running street hemi on street tires....wait a minute...I'll make that "SLICKS", still couldn't touch a phase II.

This would be heresy over there but car for car there is no comparison between even a phase I car and a '69. Forget the wow factor and given the choice most people would leave the '69 in the garage every day! Those old cars were a battle to drive and about as reliable as a $20 Bolex!

DrEvyl

iTrader: (5)

If it's truly a Bright Purple Metallic WS6 car... it will have the RPO codes "WS6" and "88U" on the door sticker.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

I think Rob was referring to that magazine"shootout" at Bristol between a 69 and 02.I would tend to agree with you though on the P2X cars-especially the X6R versions they probably are solidly in the 11's.But as far as walking a 69 ZL1 that might be stretching it a tad,lol.There is no way to compare the two really but when you consider the one is five decades old the respect is certainly there..I mean it took thirty five years to get back to that level of 1/4 mi. performance! I own first,second,and fourth gens and love em all,but i'm a road racer so I don't live it a quarter mile at a time.If you want to talk performance some of the cats on the C6 Z06 forum are breaking into the 10's with DR's and bone stock driveline-that's impressive!

VIP1

Its the 75th Anniversay of Pontiac, not Firebird. Its just a trim package and was offered on other 2001 Pontiacs as well.

Here's a sticky:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-firebird-1967-2002/492966-firebird-models-list-history.html

Chevy454

iTrader: (1)

GRB: as I said in the thread at Yenko.net, I was talking about Pennington's "stock appearing" '69 ZL1...that's exhaust manifolds and Polyglass tires, but trick engine internals. Regardless of outcome, *I believe* it woulda made a cool article...

grb

Damn Rob, are you clairvoyant? I posted my remarks here because I thought they would be safe from older model gear-heads, of which I happen to be one! <----does that make any sense at all? What I'm saying is I'm a part of both worlds. I grew up with '55 Chevys, 327's, 409's, the incredible hemi's, had a '67 GTO and a '70 LT1 Vette, brother had a '65 396 Chevelle and a '68 GTO, etc. I even bought a Paxton SC '66 Shelby Mustang in the 80's. I love the old cars but, and this doesn't go over well everywhere, I'd rather have the new ones. Maybe my old '55, not to mention that damn Shelby, got me stranded one time too many.

I can't help it. I am just a late model Camaro SS nut. (If I said that on the Z06 forum those guys would have my head and I do enjoy my Z06 but the visceral feel is different.) I have not seen many GMMG that I didn't want to buy on the spot. Most guys at the SCF are just the opposite and quite frankly they are probably in the majority among all gearheads and not just at Yenko.net. And I think it's appropriate that the '69 ZL1's have more fans and get more respect.

The Yenko and ZL1 cars have a rightful and lofty place in history and maybe in 25 years or so the GMMG will have earned a little more respect. But, who knows, in 25 years we may all be riding electric Mopeds!

And I agree that would have been a cool article. Hey, maybe one day on Pinks we'll see a Yenko clone (the real thing would be too expensive) vs. a late model 427 Camaro or even a hot 350 LSx based motor. Hell will freeze over before the producers of Pinks do something like that.

You know, sometimes opinions just don't come out the right way!

LINGENFELTER SS

I totally agree...............always felt that way

grb

The people that who vote with their cash don't seem to agree with you. Yenko's (dealer) and ZL1's (factory) are bringing some of the biggest bucks in the market. They are both desirable and they are both rare. They are rare for many reasons. "Made to be rare" was not even a consideration.

David Gordon

iTrader: (1)

I didnt read all of the post but the first several pages.
I beleive the rarest production TA would have to be the 89Turbo Trans AM 1550 built total! This is a car that rolled off the assembly line and sold at your local dealer. This is no tuner car like Lingenfelter or anyname like that it was a GM production car.

LINGENFELTER SS

Well if it wasnt a consideration, why did they limit these cars and put 100k price tag on them. I dont agree with ya but thats ok. That what disagreeing is all about.

grb

The ZL1 was built for sale to the public for ONE reason: They had to build 50 so they could race it in C Stock. May have been B, but whichever,(they got move up a class and had to compete with the twin 4 barrel Hemi's after the Spring Gator Nationals and were never really successful after that) that is the only reason GM built these cars. If they could have sold more believe me they would have built them! They sat on dealer's lots for many months and became the only car GM has ever allowed a dealer to return to them. The list was just over $7K which was double what any other Camaro cost.

Keep in mind that GM and any other American mfg. builds cars to sell ASAP. They don't give a rat's *** what they will be worth "some day". That's how GM employees keep (or lose) their jobs.

The cars were worth little more than they originally sold for until the muscle car boom of the '80's. They didn't skyrocket to their present value until the last10 years or so.

And you won't find a ZL1 in ANY condition for $100K. Yenko on the other hand built all he could sell. Check the Yenko.net site and you can find out how many 427 Yenko Camaros were made. Even a good Yenko clone can go for $100K, so the really choice ones go for a king's ransom! Again, check Yenko.net for more up to date info.

VIP1

You should go back and read the other pages.
For example, there were fewer Formulas than that built in 2001 (only 1,037 built). Mine is one of 507 for having the 3.23 rear. I can't find any numbers on th 75th Anniversary Package though.......Before any one says it again....Its the 75th Anniversary of Pontiac, not Firebird.

David Gordon

iTrader: (1)

I know the Formula WS6 is a rare car indeed. But I still have to stick with the 20th ann. Firebird ( dubbed the 89 Turbo TA )

Darth Z

WRONG! The `89 TTA is the 20th Anniversary (having a braid fart? I see you have one.) The 25th Anniv, wasn' t until `94.

David Gordon

iTrader: (1)

I still believe the 89 Turbo TA is the rarest production made bird ever. I mean if you are looking and a production vehicle thats had drastic changes over the regular production vehicle, and it was put out only 1 year. And mines for sale for the great price of $14,000.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

GM made a little over 200 RPO 1LE Formulas from 88-99,those were the lowest specifc production third and fourth gen firebirds built annually.If you define rare as obscure paint/interior combos who knows..this thread has become nebulous and not so simple to define..