2002 Phase I ZL1 Camaro sold at Barrett-Jackson
01-29-2007, 07:57 PM
#83
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2002 Phase I ZL1 sold at Barrett-Jackson
Originally Posted by Xsta Z 28
Fine I'll take my opinions, my $6,500 Berger and go lighten up . . . .
Andy...............I certainly didn't mean any offense either. I have told you before that you have a beautiful car and we all know that it is worth considerably more than $6,500. IN MY OPINION, if it were mine, I wouldn't tale 10 times that amount for it ! ! ! !
01-29-2007, 08:49 PM
#84
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Andy I just ran across a pic of your car. I forgot about that beautiful electron blue paint. I'll top Nine Ball's offer by $2,500!
02 - Saw your car up close and personal. How on earth did you get all the swirls and orange peel out. Nice shine too! My blue 02 looks like it's been in a cat fight. And the black one....hopeless!
02 - Saw your car up close and personal. How on earth did you get all the swirls and orange peel out. Nice shine too! My blue 02 looks like it's been in a cat fight. And the black one....hopeless!
01-30-2007, 08:42 AM
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2002 Phase I ZL1 Camaro sold at Barrett-Jackson
Originally Posted by grb
Andy I just ran across a pic of your car. I forgot about that beautiful electron blue paint. I'll top Nine Ball's offer by $2,500!
02 - Saw your car up close and personal. How on earth did you get all the swirls and orange peel out. Nice shine too! My blue 02 looks like it's been in a cat fight. And the black one....hopeless!
02 - Saw your car up close and personal. How on earth did you get all the swirls and orange peel out. Nice shine too! My blue 02 looks like it's been in a cat fight. And the black one....hopeless!
As for the swirls and orange peel..................they are still there. In fact, one person on this forum a couple of years ago had seen my car on display at a Chevrolet dealership and really critized it here on this forum. Oh well, that is just a G.M. paint job and that is how the car came. Thanks for the compliments though ! ! !
01-30-2007, 09:09 AM
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J.D. - I was looking for who sold me my C5R 090 heads and I ran across several good pictures of your car. I think one was indoors. I didn't see any swirls.
bandit - You and I are the only ones that will get it but that's pretty funny!!
bandit - You and I are the only ones that will get it but that's pretty funny!!
01-30-2007, 08:39 PM
#88
$80k, I don't get it. I guess having the emission recertification is worth something compared with an MTI or LG package. Having some of the other GMMG changes maybe worth something, but is their handmade swaybar or penske shocks really worth any more than Sam Strano's stuff? - I don't know. And with almost no miles on many of the cars it doesn't seem like that there is that much race time to prove them out. If there are results, post them up (I'm willing to learn 
), but fluff pieces from magazine's don't do it for me.
It's nice that the car went from $60k to $80k. But when you have only 200 miles on the car, its an investment and the ROI on it is nothing special. Might be more fun than owning the $60k of the S&P 500, but the risk was way greater. Now if you have 10k miles and get that return, that would be cool. It's a toy that paid for itself.
Skip the flaming responses... I understand its your money and if it brings you happiness spend it and enjoy it.
), but fluff pieces from magazine's don't do it for me.It's nice that the car went from $60k to $80k. But when you have only 200 miles on the car, its an investment and the ROI on it is nothing special. Might be more fun than owning the $60k of the S&P 500, but the risk was way greater. Now if you have 10k miles and get that return, that would be cool. It's a toy that paid for itself.
Skip the flaming responses... I understand its your money and if it brings you happiness spend it and enjoy it.
01-30-2007, 08:57 PM
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Good point Ragtop. I've never gotten wood staring at a stock portfolio! On the other hand I can stare at a pretty muscle car and find some enjoyment in that. Were it not for that I'd put the $80k in tax free MB's, CD's or whatever. They do work better, in most cases, as investment instruments.
01-30-2007, 10:56 PM
#90
None of these late model cars are ideal for buying as investments. If it were about investment value, that $80K is better spent on a rare 1st gen Camaro that is restored. Those are proven to go up in value each year and have a much wider audience of interested buyers.
...and they look better
...and they look better
01-30-2007, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
$80k, I don't get it. I guess having the emission recertification is worth something compared with an MTI or LG package. Having some of the other GMMG changes maybe worth something, but is their handmade swaybar or penske shocks really worth any more than Sam Strano's stuff? - I don't know. And with almost no miles on many of the cars it doesn't seem like that there is that much race time to prove them out. If there are results, post them up (I'm willing to learn ), but fluff pieces from magazine's don't do it for me.
It's nice that the car went from $60k to $80k. But when you have only 200 miles on the car, its an investment and the ROI on it is nothing special. Might be more fun than owning the $60k of the S&P 500, but the risk was way greater. Now if you have 10k miles and get that return, that would be cool. It's a toy that paid for itself.
Skip the flaming responses... I understand its your money and if it brings you happiness spend it and enjoy it.
), but fluff pieces from magazine's don't do it for me.It's nice that the car went from $60k to $80k. But when you have only 200 miles on the car, its an investment and the ROI on it is nothing special. Might be more fun than owning the $60k of the S&P 500, but the risk was way greater. Now if you have 10k miles and get that return, that would be cool. It's a toy that paid for itself.
Skip the flaming responses... I understand its your money and if it brings you happiness spend it and enjoy it.
No flame intended,but try to look at it from this angle.Those ZL1 cars were an homage to the halcyon days of arguably the greatest camaros produced of any generation.They all started out as B4C special service cars,those are fairly rare in their own right.There are a couple of owners that have both the first and fourth gen ZL1's,including Bill Porterfields #1 69 and #1 02.The one in question was a very low mile example,perhaps the lowest and while it was a base car collectors will always pay a premium for that.I'd agree the seller got good money for it,but remember it sold in the land of free cocktails and deep pockets.A car,like a stock,is only worth what someone is willing to pay you for it.The person who bought that car probably had enough disposable income where the ROI was never a factor in purchasing it.A freind of mine recentely bought an SL65 AMG MBZ for nearly 200k and it is valued at 125k less than one year later-that kind of dimunition of value will never be experienced with one of these.GM's idea of a grand sendoff for a platform that spanned five decades of production was the sticker and tape job Z4C.If it wasn't for guys like Matt and Scott S that lobbied for these and other GMMG cars to get built the 02 would have gone out with a whimper.Five years later you need five hundred horsepower just to get in the front door,go figure! jmho
01-31-2007, 12:25 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
And with almost no miles on many of the cars it doesn't seem like that there is that much race time to prove them out. .
The ZL1 Prototype #1 was tested by GM themselves at the proving grounds. We did get full data including 1/4 mile, braking ect... They did make changes to the braking, shocks, and tire combo that eventually made it into the ZL1 factory cars. Like I have said before and in this post most poeple (99%) do not know what these cars are and there is more than a few fluff pieces as some poeple would say.
Tell you what you guys just keep thinking it is just a drop in crate motor and some wheels.
Or take a clean Camaro put a LS6 in it from GM and get some Rims and tires and see what that car is worth. My guess is KBB at best.
A true ZL1 car with all it pieces and Doc CAN NOT be duplicated with aftermarket parts from Vendors PERIOD!!! I could not do it and I built all those cars and know every part on them.
Remember guys FACTORY INVOLVEMENT is key here.
Last edited by Vengeance Racing; 01-31-2007 at 12:54 PM.
01-31-2007, 02:50 PM
#93
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Thanks again for your input Mike.
I would seriously doubt anyone who purchased one of the GMMG cars is looking for "ROI". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I know that I am not ! ! I bought the car just because I liked it and also because I knew Matt. I think that GMMG is the Yenko of today. If my car is worth something more that what I paid for it someday, that's cool. If not, I have certainly gotten my money's worth just owning it, showing it and talking to folks about it.
I would seriously doubt anyone who purchased one of the GMMG cars is looking for "ROI". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I know that I am not ! ! I bought the car just because I liked it and also because I knew Matt. I think that GMMG is the Yenko of today. If my car is worth something more that what I paid for it someday, that's cool. If not, I have certainly gotten my money's worth just owning it, showing it and talking to folks about it.
01-31-2007, 04:25 PM
#94
Mike, how about you telling us exactly what is done on the different ZL1 packages so that we have this valuable information stored here? Instead of preaching to the choir about the value of ZL1 GMMG cars, please take the time to inform us. This info could be a reference for others to read later.
01-31-2007, 05:27 PM
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Nine Ball, go to Yenko net. Those guys are not happy about the hit their first gens just took. They are anything but a guaranteed annuity. A year ago a first class ZL1/Yenko/Baldwin would bring big money. Not quiet the same enthusiasm this year.
What is shocking is the money clones are bringing. And what is a GMMG car but an ULTRA resto mod, (which, BTW are gaining in value faster than the real thing). But think about it. Sure a first gen is cute (to some people). But which drives better? Which is faster...straight or twisties? And don't you think just about everything on the late model from the headlights to the tail-lights has been improved? For instance...4 speeds or 6?
I've owned the old and I've owned the new. I'll take the new. But that's just me. YMMV. Don't misunderstand, I love the old cars. I just don't want to have to drive one. You see I want a hemi. Bad. But I know what will happen. Unless it is a $450k frame-off resto done by God himself it won't be reliable. Something will always need adjusting or tweaking or whatever. The new ones? Just get in, adjust your elec.seat, adj. the A/C and set the computer to comp. mode or whatever and just drive!
What is shocking is the money clones are bringing. And what is a GMMG car but an ULTRA resto mod, (which, BTW are gaining in value faster than the real thing). But think about it. Sure a first gen is cute (to some people). But which drives better? Which is faster...straight or twisties? And don't you think just about everything on the late model from the headlights to the tail-lights has been improved? For instance...4 speeds or 6?
I've owned the old and I've owned the new. I'll take the new. But that's just me. YMMV. Don't misunderstand, I love the old cars. I just don't want to have to drive one. You see I want a hemi. Bad. But I know what will happen. Unless it is a $450k frame-off resto done by God himself it won't be reliable. Something will always need adjusting or tweaking or whatever. The new ones? Just get in, adjust your elec.seat, adj. the A/C and set the computer to comp. mode or whatever and just drive!
01-31-2007, 06:13 PM
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Ive always been interested in ZL1 cars, old and new...Like why they made Phase I, II, and III's. Its a ZL1 I would have assumed they would put the C5R in all of them but I know they didnt and Im just curious what the thinking was behind having diff levels of 02 ZL1s...is it possible there wasnt a market for 69 of them at the price of the Phase III's?
And yeah Mike I too would love to know all of the in's and out's of them and the performance levels for each Phase. All the owners of them should be proud, they are most deff a part of Camaro history. They aren't my cup of tea as fas as owning one because I have to drive what I own but yet I have respect for what they are and I dont care if the people who own them put 20k miles on them a year or 2 tenths of a mile.
And yeah Mike I too would love to know all of the in's and out's of them and the performance levels for each Phase. All the owners of them should be proud, they are most deff a part of Camaro history. They aren't my cup of tea as fas as owning one because I have to drive what I own but yet I have respect for what they are and I dont care if the people who own them put 20k miles on them a year or 2 tenths of a mile.
01-31-2007, 08:47 PM
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There definitely was a market for all 69 cars. It was only when Matt found out that so many of us were going to pull the LS6 and have 427's installed that he realized there was so much demand for the historical 427 cubic inch motor. I'm sure others will elaborate.
01-31-2007, 09:23 PM
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thats deff part of what i was asking if they would have been able to move 69 cars all with 427s...Im just surprised they didnt do the 427 in all of them! None of the ZL1s were cheap but if what Ive heard is correct they were right at 100k new, I just was wondering if they thought hey we may not be able to find 69 people who want to buy a 100k dollar Camaro at one time so possibly they said lets do deff phases that arent as much? Is that why they did the LS6 as well or had they planned on it all along?
01-31-2007, 10:03 PM
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2002 Phase I ZL1 sold at Barrett-Jackson
Originally Posted by drews94z-28
thats deff part of what i was asking if they would have been able to move 69 cars all with 427s...Im just surprised they didnt do the 427 in all of them! None of the ZL1s were cheap but if what Ive heard is correct they were right at 100k new, I just was wondering if they thought hey we may not be able to find 69 people who want to buy a 100k dollar Camaro at one time so possibly they said lets do deff phases that arent as much? Is that why they did the LS6 as well or had they planned on it all along?
I was going to try and answer this but as I started typing..............I realized that Mike is right..............while I own one..............I really don't know enough to really speak intelligently about the process these cars went through with G.M and how the different "Phases" came about, so...........I telephoned Matt Murphy and asked him to come into this thread and try to answer your question as only he and Mike know ALL THE ANSWERS where I don't.
I know the story from talking to Matt but I could say something that would be totally wrong simply because I misunderstood something Matt told me. I don't want to do that. If the story is going to me told, it needs to be told by the guy who owns the company that created these cars.
Be patient and give Matt a few days to respond to this thread as he is a very busy guy and I'm sure has more pressing matters than his response to this thread.
02-01-2007, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by NEW
Hey Guys, Grb and 02 ZL1 you have some really good points here..
The guys saying that gmmg cars is just some wheels, a lid, catback and stickers, you just plain out have a different way to look at things..
I considered all kinds of options when purchasing my car, we(guys owning GMMG cars) know what have been done to the cars, we are very very (most of at least) car interested, and do indeed know that we could make this **** ourselves from mailordering all kinds scdp parts, summit, borla and you name it......
THAT IS NOT THE POINT, WE LIKE THESE CARS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT A COOL BENCH MARK IN THE CAMARO HISTORY, It was about the first time you could buy a CAMARO, tune it, hop it up, and still under factory warranty,,, this things hasnt been possible since the mid 70s..
GMMG did/does a great job on the various packages, and versions they pulled out, and lets just hope they does so on the 5th gen.
Everybody could go and buy a SS, Z28 and so on at the dealer.... But only 69 guys got a ZL1, only 35 guys got a Hot Rod, and so on.. Limited production will always demand higher prices no matter what, but most (99%) of the time, performance helps concerning wanted, and rare..(do not blend your **** box of a 6 cyl car, or the 1 SS with pink cloth interior or whatsoever into, desireable, and wanted here now)
DO YOU NOT THINK THAT IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD, OR USA IF THAT IS YOUR PLAYGROUND IS MORE THAN 69 GUYS, THAT HAVE THE MONEY, AND LIKE CARS, AND WOULD LIKE A ZL1?? there is always someone wanting to step up and pay for something really special.
Just my thoughts...
GRB, well probably meet this year again too, i really liked CUMMING GA,,,,;-)
NEW
The guys saying that gmmg cars is just some wheels, a lid, catback and stickers, you just plain out have a different way to look at things..
I considered all kinds of options when purchasing my car, we(guys owning GMMG cars) know what have been done to the cars, we are very very (most of at least) car interested, and do indeed know that we could make this **** ourselves from mailordering all kinds scdp parts, summit, borla and you name it......
THAT IS NOT THE POINT, WE LIKE THESE CARS BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT A COOL BENCH MARK IN THE CAMARO HISTORY, It was about the first time you could buy a CAMARO, tune it, hop it up, and still under factory warranty,,, this things hasnt been possible since the mid 70s..
GMMG did/does a great job on the various packages, and versions they pulled out, and lets just hope they does so on the 5th gen.
Everybody could go and buy a SS, Z28 and so on at the dealer.... But only 69 guys got a ZL1, only 35 guys got a Hot Rod, and so on.. Limited production will always demand higher prices no matter what, but most (99%) of the time, performance helps concerning wanted, and rare..(do not blend your **** box of a 6 cyl car, or the 1 SS with pink cloth interior or whatsoever into, desireable, and wanted here now)
DO YOU NOT THINK THAT IN THE WHOLE FREAKING WORLD, OR USA IF THAT IS YOUR PLAYGROUND IS MORE THAN 69 GUYS, THAT HAVE THE MONEY, AND LIKE CARS, AND WOULD LIKE A ZL1?? there is always someone wanting to step up and pay for something really special.
Just my thoughts...
GRB, well probably meet this year again too, i really liked CUMMING GA,,,,;-)
NEW
NEW