GM proving ground is helpful but different than participating in competitive events. I'm just curious how they stack up against other aftermarket cars.

I'm not suggesting that you didn't put a lot of time and effort into the car. Tony's suggestion is great, post up the build sheet. It can only help build more interest in the cars.

 

Ragtop - I'll let one of the insiders answer how it 'stacks up' but I can tell you it runs away from the Mustang of the day which was that Cobra GTR I believe they called it (and one Mustang I would love to have). Is that just coincidental?

Also, with the above in mind the 427 didn't have to be a consideration. Also, these base cars could be bought for just a little over $51K. Many of us drove the prototype Red ZL1 car which was a base ZL1 and were immediately hooked. I was.

And as for the investment side, I seriously doubt ANYBODY bought an '02 ZL1 as an investment. Even the average idiot knows better than to do that nowadays with ANY CAR. A few have changed hands but I think you'll see less and less of that in the coming years (at least publicly) and these cars will be a part of permanent collections.....and fun to drive to boot!

 

I will try to post up some information that I have until Matt has time to respond to this thread.

As mentioned before..............the production of these cars had G.M./Chevrolet involvement.

Here is a document from Matt Murphy that I have with all the documents on my car:

"Dear Chevrolet Dealers and ZL 1 "Super Car" Customers,

This special web page is dedicated to a few select email addresses and will be updated periodically with information and photos sent out to you on a weekly basis. This project was started in late summer of 2000 in response to Fords, new at the time, Mustang Cobra R. Things don't happen over night and we (Scott Settlemire, John Heinricy and Myself) had to be careful for the first 6 months not to alarm anyone at GM about this car.

I did almost get the program scrapped in February of 2001, when I took the Pilot car, then an LS6 black, no badged SS, with Z06 wheels and tires down for the Daytona 24hr. I was there to show John the car and then put it back in storage. Problem one, I took it to Dale Eamhardt down there and told him about the project and showed him the car. We talked about the project for a few minutes, and he gave me that Eamhardt grin and said I will take 50 of these. Don't forget me he said, I want 50. Forget him, we will never. We at GMMG, Inc. will dedicate these 69 cars to Dale and his passion for the Camaro. He was a huge fan of Don Yenko and what he, Fred Gibb, Dale Berger and others did for the Camaro through their Chevrolet dealerships. We were on the brink of something big for Special Dealer Build Camaros with Dale in early 2001. Dale and Steve Crisp [DEI Public Relations] wanted to build Black B4C Camaros with the LS6 motors in them, all hardtops, no options. We settled at the time for Black SS's with leather and some t-tops and most hardtops. Dale died about two weeks before we delivered the first batch of his 381 HP Intimidator SS's, but thankfully to Teresa, Steve Crisp and a few others at DEI and DEC we were able to build 85 cars (83 #'rd and 2 prototypes) in Dale's honor.

Problem two and almost fatal to the project, I was introduced to Rick Baldick (Corvette & Camaro Brand manager) and he said to me, "Scott has told me about all the Camaro projects you are working on, I think that is great and any help I can give you, just let me know." Well, surely Scott told him about our LS6 Camaro, so I said to him, 'Well, what did Scott tell you about our LS6 Camaro project." His face went blank and dead silence for 3 seconds, before he replied, 'What LS6 Camaro project." Oh no, he had that look and I knew I was in trouble. I had to show him the car and he looked it over very quietly and carefully. He didn't say much except it looks nice and then he had to go, he said. I got in the car myself, and left at once for Atlanta. I called John Heinricy on a cell phone and told him what happened. He said, "It is over, I told you that no one could know about this car and now this project is over ." He wanted the car in Detroit ASAP . I didn't tell him that I had an appointment that Monday for the car to be repainted in a 1969 Garnet Red. I begged him to let me keep it in our shop, locked up for a few months, let things die down. He agreed and other than the paint shop, the pilot car was covered for 3 months.

I didn't hear any more about Rick's involvement except that he agreed to keep this car's secret between the 4 of us. Rick's involvement in this project will come back up at a later date. He has been very helpful since the day I broke the news to him. We went on to unveil the 2002 Pilot ZL-1 car to Scott Settlemire the night before the Atlanta F-body Gathering Car show in May 2001. We forgot to tell him that the car was now Garnet Red and had a complete package with the name ZL-1 on the fenders. I thought he was going to die when we uncovered it. But I was the one dying because he was taking my car away from me, that I had since the previous September.

Next week I will continue with the ZL 1 2002 story and each week I will update you with some more facts on the project. We were planning on starting the build process with motors in mid July. As luck would have it, we got the first motors from GM Parts last Thursday and Friday. About 6 weeks late, but, as some might say, better late than never. We met our first goal and that was to unveil the 2002 Car #1 ZL-1 "Super Car"' at the Fred Gibb Memorial Car Show in La Harpe, IL a few weekends ago. Car #1 is a special tribute to the original 1969 #1 ZL-1. It is painted Candy apple red with the gold lace and graphics like the original Fred Gibb/Dick Harrell ZL-1 Race car had.

Bill Porterfield, from MI owner the original 1969 ZL-1 car #1 and now owner of the original 2002 ZL-1 car #1. Our site will update you with pictures and articles on the current and past ZL-1 cars. There is an article from La Harpes newspaper describing the unveiling of the new car. As well as other articles from various magazines. We plan to have the #3 2002 ZL-1 car at the Berger Chevrolet Car show later this month [August 30th thru Sept. 1st] Both cars are close to being completed and both were specially prepped for their first showing.

We started swapping engines last Friday and won’t stop until they are all done sometime in October. The rest of the parts are coming in slowly like the motors. We are eager to deliver these cars to you the dealer and customer; but, we will not rush these cars due to the extent of the project. We are working still with vendors we ordered parts from some three months ago. This project is moving slower than we planned but will progress and we will get all 69 cars built and delivered, if all goes well by the end of October or first part of November. I would like to deliver the first cars by the end of September. We will keep you posted.

As for the first cars to get motors, they will be the ones not getting painted and the ones not getting the engine upgrade packages. We will try to ship cars in groups to dealers to save them cost on shipping. As some of you know, we had to change some of the options, due to emission reasons and our attorney trying to protect the dealers and GMMG, Inc. We will not be selling Phase 2, gears, headers or line locks through the dealers like originally planned. This is for your protection, as they do not comply with the emission certification tests we performed on the test car. The owners will have to pay us directly, in order to keep the dealers involvement out of it.

We have been contacting each ZL-1 owner and reviewing the options with them. So far half have either changed their stripe colors, take off credit, etc. One backed out and we did not get a call from the dealer and we were planning to send the car to the paint shop next week to get the custom Ferrari Yellow paint done on it. It is important that we talk directly to the owners to make sure that we get the right information. I do not want to ship cars next month and have the customer say, "I didn't want it that way." Right now we would have about 12 people pretty upset because the order form was different from what he wanted. I apologize for any order form confusion, especially with the early one with the extra options. We cannot take a chance of getting the dealers in trouble over emission related items. I also realize that it has been
almost two months since some of you sent in these forms and people change their minds. Please help us reach all customers and get the options finalized by the end of this week.

Please feel free to contact me personally if you have any questions or you can ask for Laurie or David and one of us will get back in touch with you, if we are not able to get your call. I believe these cars will go down as a truly collectible car and a sound investment. I promise all of you will be happy with the quality of the finished product. Thanks again for your patience and we look forward to talking to all of you soon.

Sincerely,

Matthew K. Murphy, Jr.
On behalf of all of us at GMMG, Inc."

 

For those that think that "Racing" is the true benchmark determining value of one of these cars, maybe you should talk to Larry Christensen. He regularly races his Phase III ZL1.

 

More "fluff" for your reading enjoyment.

Berger Chevrolet Press Release:

 

[QUOTE=02_Phase2_ZL1]Ray................I'm curious..............where did you see my car up close and personal?

He probably saw it after I got my hands on it.

 

I gotta say,,,this thread is great,,and was fun to read,,,I knew NOTHING about the ZL1's before this. I only have a simple ceta vert with 9k miles, but the two biggest things I come away with: no RPO on these cars - HURTS, phase lll C5-R engine - MAKES HURT GO AWAY. High Miles on a ZL1 phase l or ll - HURTS, almost NO MILES like the B-J one, makes a tidy profit!!! After the $30k magazine car at B-J, I would be curious on what a ZL1 phase l or ll with say, 5k - 20k miles would go for?

 

wow that was alot of really interesting information! thanks for posting, I look forward to more and more!!!

 

The ZL1 that sold on Tuesday at Barrett-Jackson in Scotsdale was a Phase 1 and I believe only had 163 miles on it. I don't know how much 5k-20k would discount the price but would to some extent I'm sure.

 

B-J is a crap shoot. Whoever got that HR car stole it!

About the 427. Having owned a Phase I that was converted to a SC 427, back to NA and now is a Phase II......hey, wait a minute....this is the rarest of them all....it has been all three phases plus a SC makes FOUR. I declare my ZL1 as the rarest of them all!!!!!

Back to reality. Having driven several Phase II cars I can see why Matt would think their was no need for a 427. In fact, and I'm not putting words in his mouth, I'll bet he will tell you the Phase II is the most drivable and has power out the ***! In fact I'm betting MM will advise most people not to get too carried away with the HP. Just a guess.

New sig.....Owner of the rarest Camaro on earth!

 

Hey guy how things, Just checking in, Mike, Andy, grb, new, As you know these cars are a blast to drive, tough to keep your foot out of the throttle. We took 2 phase II cars on the 06 power tour. It was a road race-drag race the whole trip, and still got 26 mpg. Great fun.

 

Same old you know what. You coming to the F-bod Gathering? I'm going to drive the DH over there. Should be even bigger this year. <---the gathering, not the car.

 

I'm planning on going to the Gathering, not sure which car to bring this year. Hey Jerry . . . . Another GMMG car . . . ?????

 

did any of them come with ttops?

 

No . . All 2002 ZL1's were built from non t-top B4C RPO code cars . . .

 

I got to see the first 13 of these cars get delivered to fred gibb chevy in la harpe, il in 2002 (is clover tire now and was then) I was 16 or 17 they got delivered at midnight the day before the buyers came. One wouldn't start the battery was bad. I loved it though I'll never forget it pictures weren't allowed I know this is an old thread I was bored browsing.

 

I think it's cool to hear stories like that, also, I had never heard of the Mid-Iowa Camaro club and had no idea there was any GMMG cars in Iowa. Always cool to find stuff like this out

 

Actually............there is four (4) GMMG Camaros that belong to Mid-Iowa Camaro Club owners.

I have a Phase II ZL1 Supercar
Charlie has a PhaseIIX Hot Rod Magazine Camaro
Brad has a Phase IIX Berger SS
Karl has a Phase I Dale Earnhardt Intimidator SS

If you want to see some of these cars, maybe you should come to the show below in October.

http://midiowacamaroclub.com/phpBB2/...ow_10-6-12.pdf

 

I'll definitely have to look into getting a few friends and coming down. Sounds like a good time!

 

It was a great time and something I'll always remember I guess thats why i'm on my 4th f-body camaro lol I loved em. I got to sit in Helen Gibbs #3 zl1....the only one that was an auto. Just sitting in it gave me chills. When is the show in October? I've only seen the zl1's at the gibb car shows in La Harpe.