BS thread - 2011 GT 11.80's @ 118 with bolt ons
05-12-2010, 04:45 PM
#262
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In case you didn't notice, I only stated my opinion that I can see the new 5.0 hitting the RWTQ number that you said it wouldn't......which was 390. You have sine changed that to 400, down to 385, back to 390, and onto to 400 to 400+. Not to mention the back and forth on FWTQ which was 450, 460, etc. That's the only thing I said. The only point I was making is how rediculous you sound making absolute statements about a motor that hasn't even been F'd with in the aftermarket. My reasoning for that opinion was shown with 375RWTQ (estimated ~440FWTQ [only 10 less than what you said it wouldn't do] on the Evolution dyno) with just a midpipe, catback and tune. That's not touching cams or LT's which we all know (pending choice) that those are both increase TQ.
So.....there's nothing to be 'wrong' about. As I said...you just aren't getting it as all you can see in your head is that you have to be right under any condition. Do ya get it now?
05-12-2010, 04:51 PM
#265
i never thought i would agree with you Pony...but, with the cam timing technology in the new 5.0 i can see it happening.
a simple bump in static compression ratio will move that tq number well above the 400+ mark. not only that but im sure once the tuners get ahold of it, and find out how many ways they can tweek the cam timing system to allow a varying dynamic compression ratio through the powerband, your going to eat the computer that displays your bogus posts zigroid...
i see where your theory is on N/A engines with no variable timing, but when the computer can change how and when the valve is doing what, the possibilities are endless...
tell me, have you ever seen a dyno graph for a L99 or L76 engine with VVT? the TQ curve is as flat as a 12 year old's chest. you get the same dyno graph with an LS3 without VVT and it looks like a traditional n/a torque curve...
ill also note that the L99 made more power all the way across the board with a SMALLER cam, all other mods being equal.
a simple bump in static compression ratio will move that tq number well above the 400+ mark. not only that but im sure once the tuners get ahold of it, and find out how many ways they can tweek the cam timing system to allow a varying dynamic compression ratio through the powerband, your going to eat the computer that displays your bogus posts zigroid...
i see where your theory is on N/A engines with no variable timing, but when the computer can change how and when the valve is doing what, the possibilities are endless...
tell me, have you ever seen a dyno graph for a L99 or L76 engine with VVT? the TQ curve is as flat as a 12 year old's chest. you get the same dyno graph with an LS3 without VVT and it looks like a traditional n/a torque curve...
ill also note that the L99 made more power all the way across the board with a SMALLER cam, all other mods being equal.
05-12-2010, 05:26 PM
#266
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i never thought i would agree with you Pony...but, with the cam timing technology in the new 5.0 i can see it happening.
a simple bump in static compression ratio will move that tq number well above the 400+ mark. not only that but im sure once the tuners get ahold of it, and find out how many ways they can tweek the cam timing system to allow a varying dynamic compression ratio through the powerband, your going to eat the computer that displays your bogus posts zigroid...
i see where your theory is on N/A engines with no variable timing, but when the computer can change how and when the valve is doing what, the possibilities are endless...
tell me, have you ever seen a dyno graph for a L99 or L76 engine with VVT? the TQ curve is as flat as a 12 year old's chest. you get the same dyno graph with an LS3 without VVT and it looks like a traditional n/a torque curve...
ill also note that the L99 made more power all the way across the board with a SMALLER cam, all other mods being equal.
a simple bump in static compression ratio will move that tq number well above the 400+ mark. not only that but im sure once the tuners get ahold of it, and find out how many ways they can tweek the cam timing system to allow a varying dynamic compression ratio through the powerband, your going to eat the computer that displays your bogus posts zigroid...
i see where your theory is on N/A engines with no variable timing, but when the computer can change how and when the valve is doing what, the possibilities are endless...
tell me, have you ever seen a dyno graph for a L99 or L76 engine with VVT? the TQ curve is as flat as a 12 year old's chest. you get the same dyno graph with an LS3 without VVT and it looks like a traditional n/a torque curve...
ill also note that the L99 made more power all the way across the board with a SMALLER cam, all other mods being equal.
It's cool man. And ty for the input. 
05-12-2010, 06:41 PM
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Wow, this thread is rediculous! Albeit cheap entertainment for the bored but still, if you look here
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
05-12-2010, 07:07 PM
#268
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Wow, this thread is rediculous! Albeit cheap entertainment for the bored but still, if you look here
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
(pssst.....the cast crank can hold a decent amount of power too. Albeit, not more than a forged obviously, but still).
Info on your 2V?..and which sites are you on?
05-12-2010, 07:22 PM
#270
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Another 13 sec. stang...
05-12-2010, 07:28 PM
#271
Wow, this thread is rediculous! Albeit cheap entertainment for the bored but still, if you look here
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated when I say -
Ford knows how to build a strong block
Ford needs to stop using powdered metal rods (this is from having my own experiences with them and friends who have as well)
Yes the RPM band is going to be shifted sky high, I have a 2v and in order to make serious power I have to rev (like any mod motor). Everyone knows to make gobs of power you need a cobra crank and some decent rods, pistons are optional til 550ish hp. Then they are necessary.
LSX guys have NOTHING to worry about, the only reason this motor IS - IS because of the LS series engines! Period. I see the LS still being the hotrodders top choice of power/transplant for YEARS to come. Its just too simple and effective like the gen 1 SBC in the 50's (sound familiar??) What bugs me is the 4.6 has literally become the SBC since the Camaro was gone for so long, and that's one reason why I liked being a Ford guy. Now I want a LSX powered third gen a litttle to be different!
Now, this is my first post, and yeah I have no "weight" around here but, seriously, some of you need to get a grip, the Ford motor is way to expensive right now, and the LS is still king ding a ling for the Hobby. All this said, thanks for the enjoyment, I am sending this post to my mustang sites, we're going to kick out of this!!
The Coyote has a Forged crank and rods. I hate this topic. No one really knows what kind of power the shortblock can take until we have some information with a little weight to it. (i.e. real world tests) Golly gee, what a novel idea.
All these comparrisons, and calculations are void. No one knows how much power the shortblock will take, especially if you use fords previous aproach to their motors as your arguement. I have a feeling this will be a new animal.
05-12-2010, 07:29 PM
#272
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BINGO!
05-12-2010, 07:34 PM
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The Coyote has a Forged crank and rods. I hate this topic. No one really knows what kind of power the shortblock can take until we have some information with a little weight to it. (i.e. real world tests) Golly gee, what a novel idea.
All these comparrisons, and calculations are void. No one knows how much power the shortblock will take, especially if you use fords previous aproach to their motors as your arguement. I have a feeling this will be a new animal.
All these comparrisons, and calculations are void. No one knows how much power the shortblock will take, especially if you use fords previous aproach to their motors as your arguement. I have a feeling this will be a new animal.
05-12-2010, 07:39 PM
#274
You're making baseless assumptions based off of previous designs and techniques that Ford has used in the past.
Truth is, no one really knows until it has been tested.
05-12-2010, 07:43 PM
#275
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Thanks! I am debating on selling it... Its a hard decision thats for sure. I wanted a piece of this conversation because its the first actual analysis thread i've seen. I hope it's everything that the hype is about, us Ford guys are over due for a real GT. All I am saying is FACT, to make power on a OHC small cube motor requires RPM. The case has been (and probably will be) that the rods (forged POWDERED METAL) will only go so far. Its not a put down, its solid for what its built for stock. Us car guys are going to need something more (as usual). All upper end power requires a lot of gear to cruise, which burns more gas....etc.
05-12-2010, 07:54 PM
#276
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So am I. Are you a Chemical Engineer for Ford? Do you know what kind of Forged powdered metal that they are using in the Coyotes? Do you know the stress/RAM figures for the short block?
You're making baseless assumptions based off of previous designs and techniques that Ford has used in the past.
Truth is, no one really knows until it has been tested.
You're making baseless assumptions based off of previous designs and techniques that Ford has used in the past.
Truth is, no one really knows until it has been tested.
I just dont see the point of being rude, nor do I appreciate your attitude. THere isnt any reason for argument here, its a debate.
There's not a single magic formula for all powder metal parts, either; it varies from product to product, yes.
Strength advantages come in the denser grain of the materials packed into the forging.....
And FYI, I have been building professionally for almost 10 years, I work here in Austin, and I am part of a Top Fuel Hydro Drag Boat Team which is my family's sport.... which has been High Points Champs for the past 2 years in a row after being Pro Mod High Points Champs for 4 years in a row.. (You asked) I think I deserve an opinion. Thanks.
05-12-2010, 08:03 PM
#277
Npi bottom end, Pi heads/cams, PP intake, upper plenum, throttle body, jba headers, bassani X, flow 40's, built 4r70w w/ jmod, frpp 3.73's, trans cooler, SCT FC3 w/ tunes, pullies, BBK cold air, K&N, body mods, etc etc.
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Another 13 sec. stang...
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[IMG][/IMG]
Another 13 sec. stang...
05-12-2010, 08:13 PM
#278
Do you drive with your ***?? beacuse I have no idea how you see over the steering wheel! I wasnt knocking the Coyote and you take it too personally. Stating the obvious isnt what this thread is about. Obviously. lol
I just dont see the point of being rude, nor do I appreciate your attitude. THere isnt any reason for argument here, its a debate.
There's not a single magic formula for all powder metal parts, either; it varies from product to product, yes.
Strength advantages come in the denser grain of the materials packed into the forging.....
And FYI, I have been building professionally for almost 10 years, I work here in Austin, and I am part of a Top Fuel Hydro Drag Boat Team which is my family's sport.... which has been High Points Champs for the past 2 years in a row after being Pro Mod High Points Champs for 4 years in a row.. (You asked) I think I deserve an opinion. Thanks.
I just dont see the point of being rude, nor do I appreciate your attitude. THere isnt any reason for argument here, its a debate.
There's not a single magic formula for all powder metal parts, either; it varies from product to product, yes.
Strength advantages come in the denser grain of the materials packed into the forging.....
And FYI, I have been building professionally for almost 10 years, I work here in Austin, and I am part of a Top Fuel Hydro Drag Boat Team which is my family's sport.... which has been High Points Champs for the past 2 years in a row after being Pro Mod High Points Champs for 4 years in a row.. (You asked) I think I deserve an opinion. Thanks.
The correct answer is, no one knows just how much power the stock shortblock can handle. Because it hasn't been tested yet.
05-12-2010, 08:18 PM
#279
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Thanks for the comment, coming from an LSX guy thats something... I am on the fence what to do with it, I want to build with the new TFS heads and try getting some respect all motor. I think mid 11's are do-able with those heads worked, with bronze guides and better valves. Its just a matter of waiting for the cam manufacturers to put out something that recognizes something better than a ported PI head. I see 3 Ford guys here, is this usual for this site? I am just curious about some third gen LS cars. I see it's not that difficult. I have a guy who has some money for me if I do this to his 88 IROC for him. Just wondering about wiring harnesses, but i'll post that somewhere else. Bird, im not trying to be a dick... or claim I know everything, I just know what has been the issue in the past and it's LOOKING like it still will be. FWIW.
05-12-2010, 08:22 PM
#280
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......
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated.....
you will clearly see the coyote is going to have some issues making big power. Why? The same reason that MOST other Ford motors have, the bottom end (connecting rods are usual junk). I am biased in my opinion because I like both, the mod motor and the LSX but, facts are easily stated.....