Ke^in

And there have been even more bolt-on 2vs that have taking out stock LS1s. Why? They both have been around a lot longer.

You guys act like the 2v can't take a LS1 in any shape or form without boost. And that's simply not true. Stock for stock, there is about a .5 difference in times compared to the Ls1 and 2v. Same goes for the LS1 and 5.0

I am speaking about 1/4 mile races.

If you wanna talk roll races up to 150+ MPH when it comes to a LS1 vs a 2v, the 2v would have to have a lot more than just bolt-ons.

The current 5.0 vs the current Camaro is comparable to a LS1 and a Mach1. But this time the 5.0 has the advantage.

Ke^in

What I CAN'T wait for is the Z28 coming out. That should make things even MORE interesting. Especially if it comes in black, with red trimmings.

When it comes to pony cars, as far as looks go, the WS6 is still the hottest looking one around. Even more so than the 5.0 and the new Camaro IMHO. I love those LS1 T/As.

Demon 383

Good find! I remember Keith @ Force Fed knew a local guy that was pushing 600rw N/A in a '98 Z/28. 6spd car. Had like 4.56 gears and a 3100lb dry weight. Was fast as ****.

It would take a Coyote probably 25,000rpms to make that kind of power. I kid I kid.

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

I'm impressed with the 5.0L

Our shop car went pretty quick with relatively few mods. The build can be followed here

I have over 140 track passes in the car to date. Everyone said it couldn't safely rev high with stock hardware, but it shifts every gear at 7,800 rpm's with stock springs, stock cams, ported heads.

The best ET to date - 10.82 @ 123 mph. It really needs a set of cams to get the full potential out of the current mods.

There is no weight reduction other than removing the spare tire and jack and of course the wheels/tires. The car weighed 3,680 lbs. with me in it (I am 180 lbs.)

It made 441 RWHP through the auto, so it's up 110 RWHP over stock.

Mods are:

Livernois Motorsports 12:1 Pistons/H-Beam Rods
Livernois Motorsports Stage 1 CNC Heads
Stainless Works Headers, Catted Mid-Pipe, and Catback
FRPP Manifold
FRPP Throttle Body
Custom CAI
4.10 Ring & Pinion
Circle D Stall Converter
Livernois Motorsports 1-Piece Aluminum Driveshaft
Livernois Motorsports Dyno Tune
FRPP Cobra-Jet Springs & Adjustable Shocks/Struts
BMR Panhard Bar
BMR Swaybar Relocation Brackets
Drag Radials/Skinnies

Video

-Rick

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

This is impressive too!

Nothing like crazy N/A power.

We built a Z06 for a customer that made 630 RWHP N/A; 729 RWHP with 100 shot.

Stock bottom end, trans, rear end, and half shafts! It went 9.93 @ 139 on motor and 9.4 @ 148 on 100 shot.

Mods are:

Livernois Motorsports Stage 3 LS7 Cylinder Heads
Livernois Motorsports Stage 3 LS7 Camshaft
Livernois Motorsports Dual Valve Spring Kit
FAST 102mm Intake Manifold
Halltech Cold Air Intake System
Kooks Longtube Headers
Kook's X-Pipe
Stock Catback w/ Mild-to-Wild Controller
Lowered on stock bolts
Tuned by Livernois Motorsports

Click

-Rick

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

That's pretty impressive. How much improvement did you get by porting the heads? I'm just assuming you tested the car before and after the heads to see what the difference would be. If not an educated guess would be fine.

MauriSSio

wow thats only stage 1 porting + boltons and full weight. Impressive!

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

Thanks!

In all honesty, we hope to do some engine dyno testing here soon with various port designs.

We were invited to a magazine shootout and had very little time to get the car together, so we did several mods at one time. The heads do flow great out of the box, so on a pretty much stock engine with stock cams, I'm sure they do very little. With a power adder or increased displacement and cams, I'm sure they would help more.

-Rick

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

I didnt say anything about number of victories, so that's an irrelevant point.

Id say you're wrong about the .5 second difference. When I was searching for a 13 second stock 2v in that other thread, I had a hard time finding cars 14.2 or under. Id say the stock 2v average is around 14.3 or 14.4, almost a full second behind a stock ls1.

Can't really say what the 5.0 average is fairly yet, since it hasn't been out long enough to see what a true average is. For now, 12.8 seems fair, maybe higher. Lots of slow times rolling in, but some pretty good fast ones too.

[Qupte] The current 5.0 vs the current Camaro is comparable to a LS1 and a Mach1. But this time the 5.0 has the advantage.[/QUOTE]

That is a fair assumption I would say.

LT/LS Guy

That's just badass! I heard about that car on another board and was curious as to who did the build. Not only does it have the dyno numbers it's got the track times to back it up! You guys always do awesome work. Hopefully one day I can work with you guys on one my projects.

LT/LS Guy

I agree. Watching them back at home on the East Coast (Englishtown) and here on the West Coast @ Sacramento Raceway (sea level) i've seen the majority of 99-04's go 14.2-14.4 @ 97-100 on average, even on the Mustang vs F-body nights where there would be 15 or so two-valves running all night long. Just speaking average. I think a 14-flat is really "driving" that car. A 13.x is really REALLY driving that car. LS1 M6 F-bodies on the other hand will run 13.4/5 @ 105-107 with little effort, I think we can all agree on that. The more skilled guys will go bottom 13's, 13.1-13.2 range. They've got the power to do it, about 80-90rwhp more than a 2-valve.

Demon 383

630RWHP N/A is ridiculous.

Ke^in

You said

"There have been a pretty good amount of bolt-on f-bodies taking out 5.0s"

Since when does "good amount" not = numbers?

An auto maybe. Did you not see the link posted when the two cars were tested? The Camaro SS got a mid to high 13s rating, and the 2v a flat 14. Now we KNOW the SS can do better than 13.7s. The GT can do better than 14 too.

fiveoh

That is a fair assumption I would say.[/QUOTE]

12.8 with a stock tire is probably close. My auto bone stock with 300 miles went 12.91@111 with a crappy 2.07 60'(spinning). That was in 800' DA with the spare in the trunk and a full tank of gas.

LT/LS Guy

Don't forget the T/A WS6 wen't 13.5 @ 107.4 in that same test. Don't know why you only compare the GT to the Camaro. The T/A and SS are virtually the same car.

Ke^in

Did I not say that we all know said cars can go faster than 13.7?
Actually I usually say LS1 based fbody. My point of posting said link was to show the 99GT 14.0@100.2 1/4 time done by a magazine. So you say the TA went 13.5? The 2v went 14.0

What's the difference? .5 of a second. Just like I said.

We both know however LS1 fbodies can go faster than 13.5-13.7

Just like 2v NewEdge GTs can go faster than 14.0

LT/LS Guy

Yeah but if were talking magazine times I can pull up road tests where an LS1 F-body has gone as fast as high 12's. You couldn't pull up one single piece of proof that a 99-04 GT has even dipped into the 13's. That's the issue. I'm going off of proof, your going off assumption.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

My bad, worded it poorly. It was really to add to my point of who has the better chance of winning, wasn't really focusing on # of W's.

I saw AND defended that exact argument saying yes it is possible, but we are talking average times, NOT fastest times. The thing about that article really is that we know the LS1s can go MUCH faster, but in my search for even 1 13.x stock 2v, I ran across a great majority over 14.2 (14.6-14.3 seemed to be a the norm). There are plenty more people running faster than a 13.7 in LS1s, can't say the same for that 2v & it's 14.0 time. There will be some, just not many (and hardly any documented).

Something people seem to forget, LS1s will have much more traction issues than a 2v. Have you driven a stock LS1? It blows the tires off quite easily, a 2v can but with more work. My car stock would spin pretty hard after the shift into 2nd. Precious tenths been wasted.

So are you really going to say that the AVERAGE time for a stock 2v should be faster than a 14.0??? I could find 3 stock LS1 running 13.0 or better for each 2v you find running 14.0 or better.

Ke^in

LT/LS guy, didn't we already go through this once? Do I need to post thread links and posts?

Magazine times are usually SLOWER than real world times. Hence the 13.5 - 13.7. You'll freely admit that those are high numbers. Yet you can't seem to grasp your mind around the fact that 14.0 is also a poor performance number. Just like the 13.5 13.7. So the 14.5 comments are silly. You're not being intellectually honest in this conversation.

At least be consistent.

Ke^in

I could find a ton of videos of stock 2v running 13.7 - 13.9 times all day (not the fastest time) And all I'd get was "PROOVE IT'S STOCk!!!1" been through this already once.

Magazine times are usually not a good indicator of speed. They are usually slower.

If someone running a 13.7 in a LS1 SS Camaro can also run a 14.0 in a 2v GT it would only make sense it could easily be gotten faster.

Like I've said before, I'm no master racer. I've been to the track a handful of times. And even I could get my stock 2v to 13.9. In every mustang board I was on that asked me what my time was on it, none of them were impressed. With DRs you can easily get a 2v in the mid 13s. Bolt-ons in the 12s.