WSsick

iTrader: (13)

My friend had a 96 WS6 with LTs and true duals, and when my car was stock I would pull on him. He would never line up a real race (I assume he was scared to lose) but when he'd try to play chase on the highway, I'd stop his pull and reel him in a bit. When he'd see this, he'd let out. Could be a close race if the LS1 has a bad driver, or the LT1 has a real good driver...or a 2.73 auto (seen that happen). I'd call it a driver's race, big advantage LS1 in my book though.

New edges? Yeah, not happening either. I pulled stock new edges all the time, once raced a botl-on 5 speed rolling 3 deep and still put a bus on him. Had 1 kind of dig (I pulled ahead and let out before 60) but all the rolls were terrible for them. Not saying it can't happen, since it does, but it shouldn't...and never did to me.

Ke^in

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=998283

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

I speak from personal experience, with my own races vs bolt-ons stangs in my stock LS1. Never got beat. Only Mustang I've lost to is a modded Termi.....ok and snake95 when he treed me at the track once (think I had the better ET, not sure, but he got the win lights).

Like I said, I know it can happen, but it shouldn't. At the track with a tire, definitely more plausible. However, on the street with less traction (especially from a roll) it won't look good for the stang.

Ke^in

It shouldn't? Why not? A bolt-on 2v usually has better 1/4 times than stock LS1s. At least from what I've seen.

Again, said person didn't even have FULL bolt-ons.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Full bolt-on 2v will pull hard on a stock LS1 .

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

*Revising previous statement after a little research and using more brain power haha (traps were better than I figured)*

Just speaking from personal experience as well, I've ran bolt-on 2v's, which as you showed can run 12s without being "full", when I was stock and put from 1 car to 1 bus on them. Also, just going to Midnight Madness and TNTs, most 2v's around here are mid to low 13 second cars, even on a DR unless sprayed. I'm 100% positive they can out run a stock LS1, just shouldn't be the norm. Rolls should more often than not go to the LS1*, but autos and average/poorly driven M6s would make for a driver's race. I feel like the 2v's shine at the track because of how brutal you can leave at the track. Most street showdowns go to the LS1 cars.


*2.73 geared autos can make it a good race though.

hoursetraitor

yeah the truck motors are alot cheaper

LT/LS Guy

Tell that to the guys at E-Town that were pulling 13.0-13.2 @ 107-108 on a good night! I don't see a bolt-on 2-valve "pulling" that! Not full weight atleast. And from a roll you could forget it, that's LS1 all day.

Irunelevens

Well if somebody runs a 12.77 @ 106mph with ~100lbs taken out of the car, I don't see him running slower than a 13.2 at full weight. These arguments would be MUCH more rare if people would stop talking in absolutes.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

On average from what I have seen TWO SIMILARLY DROVE CARS!!!!!! it takes a 2V gears/intake/tune to run equal ETs to an ls1... Majority of the time the Ls1 will still have a higher trap (given though since it is larger displacement, ET will match but not the MPH)

Anything over that and the 2V should pull the ls1 from a dig and match it from a roll. Of course this is just dumb *** real world racing...

LT/LS Guy

Okay, and 13.2 is not "pulling an LS1 hard" in the 1/4 with a good driver. It would be a close race.

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

Exactly, not that that is the "absolute" best bolt-on 2v time.

Please take that bullshit and

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

I know, it is not needed during winter time in these parts.

Irunelevens

Agreed. I still had my 267/310 Mustang when mom got her Corvette, and I drove that car all the time. So I think I have a little room to make comparison between the two. They were fairly close in the 1st 2 gears, but after ~60mph or so the LS1 just pulled harder. But my Mustang also didn't have gears, longtubes, or a tune. One of my good friends put it best when I did a little 20-120mph run with him in the Corvette; "Wow! It pulls just as hard in 3rd gear as it does in 2nd! And almost as hard in 4th!" Trust me, I have no "love" for 2V Mustangs, but I'm not gonna say that they can't do things that I know they can.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

So all bone stock LS1s are running 12's now? I basically lived at the track for years and thats news to me. From a highway roll, if you're into that sort of thing for some reason, the LS will have the advantage. In the 1/4 where it counts though you better be on your guard.

A true full bolt-on 2v will run low 13s all day...just like a full bolt-on LT1 will run mid-high 12s all day. Of course some will be higher and some slower, but you can't take a best case scenario and compare it to a worst case car. There will always be someone who will "soda can" a car and run insane bolt on times, like the current bolt-on LT1 record which is over 2 tenths quicker then my H/C time was!!! (11.48 to my 11.72 )

Fact of the matter is, stock is slow - a full bolt-on LT1, 2v...hell, even a lot of modern ricers, will take a stock LS1. Sucks to hear, but its true. A good friend of mine runs high 13s with a basically stock 06 Eclipse and shitty low profile goodyear tires...and its just a ricer! When I first met him I was positive it wouldn't crack 15s but the damn thing surprised the hell out of me when we went to the track. Apparently they run mid-low 14s stock. Sure, it doesn't have nearly as much potential as an LS car, but a couple more mods and he would be taking a lot of stock LS1s lunch money .

Some LS guys really need to get real. These days there are a LOT of cars that they should be worried about if they are stock.

Now, I still wouldn't trade an LS car for TWO mustangs, but you have to be honest when you make these comparisons. Even though I would never own one myself, I still respect when one car has an advantage over someone else.

Exactly.

NightmareTA

iTrader: (20)

I will admit I'm no LT1 pro, but the standard heads/cam HP for an LT1 is around 370-400 RWHP, am I right? I have seen a few mini rammed SBC's on an engine dyno make 500 HP with a decent set of heads and cam and not very high compression. Don't take this the wrong way, because I do think the LT1 is a good motor....but for the cheapness and power potential of a good old SBC with a standard distributor and all, I really don't see how the LT1 is THAT much better in the long run. The LS1 is a complete re-design with greatly improved heads so obviously it's better for power, but I just don't see much of a difference between the LT1 and SBC. A 4 bolt SBC will handle 550 HP all day, and much past that you should prob invest in a new block anyways, so I don't see the point, especially for a street car. End rant.

Ke^in

A 2v bolt-on (full or not) running 12s is about like a stock LS1 running anything below a 13.5. Does it happen? Yes. Do most people do it? No. Most people don't know how to drive their car either.

I don't know how many LS1 fbodies I aw run low 14 runs at the track in the early 2ks.

Irunelevens

I wouldn't go THAT far. Stock LS1s running 13.0-13.4 is more common.

Ke^in

Not from what I saw!!!

(Play a long here Irun, I'm making a point ;-) )

WSsick

iTrader: (13)

You must live in a sad area. Sure, there are plenty of terrible drivers I saw cracking off some 14s stock, even some modded (I blew the tires off with bolt-ons to a 13.9@108 once). However, most people that can drive a manual decently can crack a 13.4/5, better drivers get deeper, and 3.23 geared autos can easily get below a 13.5. 13.3 or 13.4 is a good average in my book for a stock LS1.