700whp m3 vs 700whp 5.0(video added)
08-15-2012, 05:54 AM
#41
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He was brake boosting to only about 10-12lbs. It also don't go full boost till 3rd gear. The car ran a 112.1@134 last Friday at the track. His 1/8. Mile was super slow.. but it picked up like 36 on back half. He don't launch it cause afraid to break rear end. His best trap is 138. We wonder if it has more power then he says also. He ran a buddies cobra that is close to 700whp and 650wtq and same thing happen. He would jump out and up above 150ish the m3 would walk by him.
Also my best trap is 133 to his 138. He usually only runs high rolls also 70-90mph. He.mentioned his car weighed about 3100lbs and with both people about 3600lbs. Mine is right around 4100 with both people. I had my street tires on and back seats in even. He.said running at a track isn't fair since I have a stalled auto..lol
Also my best trap is 133 to his 138. He usually only runs high rolls also 70-90mph. He.mentioned his car weighed about 3100lbs and with both people about 3600lbs. Mine is right around 4100 with both people. I had my street tires on and back seats in even. He.said running at a track isn't fair since I have a stalled auto..lol
Also his mod list suggests he is making anywhere from 700-750 rwhp. Depends on the dyno, day, conditions etc. We all know the variances.
Yes, the E46 M3's have some issues with the subframe bushings and the rear subframe tear. There are many proven kits so I do not know why he is going custom. I know for sure I was nervous about my rear subframe when I was at the track cutting 1.9 60's looking for 1.8's. Going up that extra 1k rpm on the launch was not worth it to me so I kept cutting my 1.9's fairly easily. But yes E46 M3's are plagued by the rear subframe bushings.
08-15-2012, 05:59 AM
#42
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Tell your buddy who made the video to not worry so much about the shakyness fixing thing in whatever program hes using. Its kind of annoying lol.
Anyway good runs. You def beat the driver. That car was freight training on the top end.
Anyway good runs. You def beat the driver. That car was freight training on the top end.
08-15-2012, 06:43 AM
#43
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From watching the video, looks to me like the guy raped you when he had traction (first race) he didnt "pass at 160" man come on.. Lol... he blew by you way before that looked like around 80-90 to me.... Not sure what happened on the other races... Missed gears? No traction?
Thanks for the video and keep them comming.... When i was stationed in killeen, i saw that bmw around.... It also used to put the smack down on 600rwhp twinscrew cobras....
Thanks for the video and keep them comming.... When i was stationed in killeen, i saw that bmw around.... It also used to put the smack down on 600rwhp twinscrew cobras....
08-15-2012, 06:46 AM
#44
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Just can't say anything nice unless it's a crate ls6 can you? The beauty of a turbo car is that you don't have to run on full boost all the time. With a press of a button that all changes. Honestly those e46 m3 engines are stout and comparing it to how a ls1/ls6 can hold up to boost with a forged bottom end I'd give the slight edge to the straight 6.
08-15-2012, 07:08 AM
#45
From watching the video, looks to me like the guy raped you when he had traction (first race) he didnt "pass at 160" man come on.. Lol... he blew by you way before that looked like around 80-90 to me.... Not sure what happened on the other races... Missed gears? No traction?
Thanks for the video and keep them comming.... When i was stationed in killeen, i saw that bmw around.... It also used to put the smack down on 600rwhp twinscrew cobras....
Thanks for the video and keep them comming.... When i was stationed in killeen, i saw that bmw around.... It also used to put the smack down on 600rwhp twinscrew cobras....
Last edited by ohioborn80; 08-15-2012 at 07:22 AM.
08-15-2012, 07:12 AM
#46
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I worked on BMW PTG M3's for years. I was never really impressed. Built to 450-460 n/a crank hp(385ish whp) was about it for them and get any longevity out them for racing. The rear will rip right out of the chassis unless reinforced. Even with the extensive rr cage the floor pans would belly out. I'm sure you how I feel about 70-90 rolls, and you can see the car don't work well down low. You also know how I feel about all this tune swapping race gas hauling crap. You end up with a pain in the *** street car and a no count race car. The car does roll out once it is in the sweet spot......but any fully built car should on race gas.
08-15-2012, 07:19 AM
#47
With the E46 M3's, this is going to happen. We do not make any low end whatsoever. With added boost, it's all about hp. Looking at the HPF dyno graphs the last little bit of hp is made at peak rpm as it should be. His pull is consistent and shows. The gearing also allows us to stay well in boost in 4th and 5th gear. For instance depending on his wheel size he won't have to shift out of 4th until 135-140 mph and 5th gear until 165-170 mph which would explain his pull at 120-140 mph. Either he is in 4th passing you or just shifting to 5th and the car is not spinning and holding boost. Also to comment on his shifting. Was he auto or manual? IF auto that would explain the slower shifts. The auto's (Sequential Manual Gearbox or SMG is a dual clutch transmission in the M3, same exact components as the manual just with added hydraulics to shift gears) with all that power takes a little more time to get through the gears.
Also his mod list suggests he is making anywhere from 700-750 rwhp. Depends on the dyno, day, conditions etc.
Also his mod list suggests he is making anywhere from 700-750 rwhp. Depends on the dyno, day, conditions etc.
I would think his is making closer to 750whp. As said down low it seems sluggish but up top its a monster. Like faster you go faster it gets.
I'm going into 5th about 145 and my 5th is only .82:1 so not best for roll racing. Even then it seemed like I was down on power above 150ish. Wondering if tune gets soft then. Since didn't plan on really roll racing it. Maybe less timing.
08-15-2012, 07:30 AM
#48
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He didn't have traction issues. We was suprised I didn't. He was on MT DR's I was on 285 nitto invo's
He never missed a gear or spun. In first race we started around 50mph. I let out around 80 or so. As it was useless. Its a bad spot for me. Very low in 2nd gear. I'm at 2700 or so rpms. No real boost. Rest runs I'm at 6000+ rpms. Which put me nailing at rough 10lbs boost. Big difference.
He never missed a gear or spun. In first race we started around 50mph. I let out around 80 or so. As it was useless. Its a bad spot for me. Very low in 2nd gear. I'm at 2700 or so rpms. No real boost. Rest runs I'm at 6000+ rpms. Which put me nailing at rough 10lbs boost. Big difference.
Here is what I noticed....
You are good street racer and know your ****, it doesnt make sense to me why you would start at "2700rpms" that would be stupid. On that 1st race I hear your car rev up thru the rpms and it seemed like it was in a good power range not all the way at the bottom, I would guess 4K rpmps or so....
Another thing I noticed is that on the 2nd and 3rd races it seemed the BMW was hitting the limiter and falling back, while you capitalized on his mistake...
Last race seemed to me like he started blowing by at around 120....
It is possible that you guys had very different gearing and therefor some speeds wouldbe much better for you and crappy for him and vice-versa
Please dont feel like Im ******* your runs, I actually think you put up a helluva fight...
08-15-2012, 08:45 AM
#49
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He was brake boosting to only about 10-12lbs. It also don't go full boost till 3rd gear. The car ran a 112.1@134 last Friday at the track. His 1/8. Mile was super slow.. but it picked up like 36 on back half. He don't launch it cause afraid to break rear end. His best trap is 138. We wonder if it has more power then he says also. He ran a buddies cobra that is close to 700whp and 650wtq and same thing happen. He would jump out and up above 150ish the m3 would walk by him.
Also my best trap is 133 to his 138. He usually only runs high rolls also 70-90mph. He.mentioned his car weighed about 3100lbs and with both people about 3600lbs. Mine is right around 4100 with both people. I had my street tires on and back seats in even. He.said running at a track isn't fair since I have a stalled auto..lol
Also my best trap is 133 to his 138. He usually only runs high rolls also 70-90mph. He.mentioned his car weighed about 3100lbs and with both people about 3600lbs. Mine is right around 4100 with both people. I had my street tires on and back seats in even. He.said running at a track isn't fair since I have a stalled auto..lol
I've never seen a hpf m3 walk another similar whp car so bad. I wonder if he doesn't have quite a bit more than he said or if your car wasn't running at it's full capacity. Even with weight differences that thing seemed to have way more power.
08-15-2012, 08:48 AM
#50
I just watched the video again from my lap top instead of my phone at the gym....
Here is what I noticed....
You are good street racer and know your ****, it doesnt make sense to me why you would start at "2700rpms" that would be stupid. On that 1st race I hear your car rev up thru the rpms and it seemed like it was in a good power range not all the way at the bottom, I would guess 4K rpmps or so....
Another thing I noticed is that on the 2nd and 3rd races it seemed the BMW was hitting the limiter and falling back, while you capitalized on his mistake
Last race seemed to me like he started blowing by at around 120....
It is possible that you guys had very different gearing and therefor some speeds wouldbe much better for you and crappy for him and vice-versa
Please dont feel like Im ******* your runs, I actually think you put up a helluva fight...
Here is what I noticed....
You are good street racer and know your ****, it doesnt make sense to me why you would start at "2700rpms" that would be stupid. On that 1st race I hear your car rev up thru the rpms and it seemed like it was in a good power range not all the way at the bottom, I would guess 4K rpmps or so....
Another thing I noticed is that on the 2nd and 3rd races it seemed the BMW was hitting the limiter and falling back, while you capitalized on his mistake
Last race seemed to me like he started blowing by at around 120....
It is possible that you guys had very different gearing and therefor some speeds wouldbe much better for you and crappy for him and vice-versa
Please dont feel like Im ******* your runs, I actually think you put up a helluva fight...
I was one hitting limiter in all runs. Last run I hit it harder but my tq still gave me jump. But yep right around 120 he came by me. Other two runs I tapped but not nearly as bad. I was able to hold him off as said. But when we stayed in it he would catch up and pull hard. Could be a few things, weight, he makes more power, gearing, and I don't think I have a lot of timing in my 5th gear. As said never really planned on roll racing the auto. His and my car is.set up totally different. He built his just for street racing. Where mine is geared toward the track. But hey it happens. Was fun for both us. We stopped talked for like and hour after. He was impressed.how hard I would Yank down low. I was impressed how hard he yanked up top. He found out that I ran 10's and he told me his car tops out just over 200. I really don't think my car will hit 200 with out some big tune changes. I know for sure my 6th gear is tuned very very soft.
08-15-2012, 08:51 AM
#51
*tap* *tap* *tap* how many drinks have you had tonight? I agree, he pulled really hard once he caught a gear.
did he pull over, take a ****, hoped back in the car and finish his pass?
I've never seen a hpf m3 walk another similar whp car so bad. I wonder if he doesn't have quite a bit more than he said or if your car wasn't running at it's full capacity. Even with weight differences that thing seemed to have way more power.
did he pull over, take a ****, hoped back in the car and finish his pass?
I've never seen a hpf m3 walk another similar whp car so bad. I wonder if he doesn't have quite a bit more than he said or if your car wasn't running at it's full capacity. Even with weight differences that thing seemed to have way more power.
As said before this is second similar whp car he comes around hard up top
08-15-2012, 08:57 AM
#52
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For ***** and giggles you should try and find a mustang dyno that is conservative but average to see what differences it may be from your initial tune. Was that new number with the converter locked or unlocked?
08-15-2012, 10:28 AM
#54
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That M3 needs a driver mod. I had an E46 M3 with similar mods to that give me some trouble from a roll in my Z06 and boy was In for a suprise. I lost traction on the first run and he put a few cars on me and when I actually had traction he got me up top.
HPF M3's are very Supra-ish. They are dogs down low but once they hit boost they are insane.
HPF M3's are very Supra-ish. They are dogs down low but once they hit boost they are insane.
08-15-2012, 11:22 AM
#55
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We do have very different gearing. What was best for.him sucked for me and like wise.for him. It happens.
I was one hitting limiter in all runs. Last run I hit it harder but my tq still gave me jump. But yep right around 120 he came by me. Other two runs I tapped but not nearly as bad. I was able to hold him off as said. But when we stayed in it he would catch up and pull hard. Could be a few things, weight, he makes more power, gearing, and I don't think I have a lot of timing in my 5th gear. As said never really planned on roll racing the auto. His and my car is.set up totally different. He built his just for street racing. Where mine is geared toward the track. But hey it happens. Was fun for both us. We stopped talked for like and hour after. He was impressed.how hard I would Yank down low. I was impressed how hard he yanked up top. He found out that I ran 10's and he told me his car tops out just over 200. I really don't think my car will hit 200 with out some big tune changes. I know for sure my 6th gear is tuned very very soft.
I was one hitting limiter in all runs. Last run I hit it harder but my tq still gave me jump. But yep right around 120 he came by me. Other two runs I tapped but not nearly as bad. I was able to hold him off as said. But when we stayed in it he would catch up and pull hard. Could be a few things, weight, he makes more power, gearing, and I don't think I have a lot of timing in my 5th gear. As said never really planned on roll racing the auto. His and my car is.set up totally different. He built his just for street racing. Where mine is geared toward the track. But hey it happens. Was fun for both us. We stopped talked for like and hour after. He was impressed.how hard I would Yank down low. I was impressed how hard he yanked up top. He found out that I ran 10's and he told me his car tops out just over 200. I really don't think my car will hit 200 with out some big tune changes. I know for sure my 6th gear is tuned very very soft.
One question, the reason i thought it was him hitting the limiter is because i know your ride is an AUTO, so how in the world are hitting the limiter in your AUTO? Lol
08-15-2012, 11:23 AM
#56
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I worked on BMW PTG M3's for years. I was never really impressed. Built to 450-460 n/a crank hp(385ish whp) was about it for them and get any longevity out them for racing. The rear will rip right out of the chassis unless reinforced. Even with the extensive rr cage the floor pans would belly out. I'm sure you how I feel about 70-90 rolls, and you can see the car don't work well down low. You also know how I feel about all this tune swapping race gas hauling crap. You end up with a pain in the *** street car and a no count race car. The car does roll out once it is in the sweet spot......but any fully built car should on race gas.
I do hate high mph roll races though so that I agree with you on.How about e85? Turbo cars seem to run really good on that pump gas and it's cheaper than premium 93 octane
08-15-2012, 11:59 AM
#58
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You know, because 10bolts are bullet proof and big cams are very forgiving on the valvetrain in the fbody world. Hows the stock transmission holding up on your camaro? I do hate high mph roll races though so that I agree with you on.
How about e85? Turbo cars seem to run really good on that pump gas and it's cheaper than premium 93 octane
I do hate high mph roll races though so that I agree with you on.How about e85? Turbo cars seem to run really good on that pump gas and it's cheaper than premium 93 octane
Maybe you should call Hotrod mag and ask if you can run e85 at their pumpgas nationals.
