'98 Mustang GT and '98 Camaro Z28. Z28 had a 125hp advantage. Were they not still direct competitors, with the Mustang just getting its *** whipped?

 

Yeah man, but come on… The GTs were dogs throughout the 90s.

I've said for years that Chevy pulled the F-body out of a sense of fairness. Meaning that Ford's laziness was making it look like Chevy was just running up the score. For Pete's sake, my LT1 96 was kicking GT *** throughout the late 2000s with bolt-ons and a cam.

But be honest here; what did Chevy do to get there in 98? Did they bolt up a massive blower on a fully modded/bored block?

No… (Right?)

That was much more to do with Ford doing NOTHING for YEARS… than Chevy doing anything revolutionary.

 

They put an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ENGINE in the car. You just can't accept that your "opinion" on what Ford/GM did is just mindless dribble. Cars don't magically change classes because one is getting its butt kicked.

 

Fellas… it's a pony car with 8.1 liters of displacement.

What is left to debate? Should The General slap a 3.3 liter blower on the ZL1, run it at 14 lbs for a cool 9.5 liters? (That would do it I expect…) but at some point someone should mention that the ZL1 is running right at 500 to the wheels with a world class chassis/suspension setup, that gets the power to the ground and cuts corners like a surgeon. I don't see them answering Ford on this one with too much.

They're bringing in the new engine, which offers upwards of 30mpg in an exquisitely appointed 11 second ride in the base vette. So we should reasonably expect the same for the following year in the Camaro. With the upgrades common to a years worth of field experience.

It's all good.

 

That's got to count for something.



It is more than that, it is so.

It is not getting by anybody. Everyone knows that the ZL1 is NOT competitive with the GT500 which it was designed to beat in every aspect. This is not Ford's fault that GM can't compete head to head in the same category. I can guarantee you that if the roles were reversed and the GT500 handled better but the ZL1 smoked it at the drag strip members in this section would laugh others off of the site for saying "hey, the GT500 handles better." You know this is true.

Good to know that GM engineers were designing a car to blow the GT500 out of the water with a much heavier car and only 30 more hp than the GT500 had at the time. They should have done more but chose not to.

Erased? LOL. If it wasn't for us taxpayers GM would be NONEXISTENT. Still waiting on that money to get paid back....

The fourth gens did outperform the Mustangs of the same era by a large margin. What GM lost at was sales. The Mustang outsold the f body twins combined. When you are doing that, there isn't much motivation to change the status quo. When it is all said and done, sales numbers are all that matters to any car company. The fifth gen did outsell the Mustang when it finally came back in 2010, but erased? Not hardly.

How ya doin?

 

Well tell that to the NHRA, my guess is that you'll get some fairly significant push-back on that.

The LS1 was an NA, push rod, 2vlv engine which was significantly more efficient. Which, for those keeping score, note that that platform lead Chevy into the world class rides which they're presently producing. Meaning it marked a game changing shift in the Chevy Platform.

(Anything gettin' through here?)

 

You are pointless. I dub thee, ""MAC" 2."

 

Again ya miss the point. I don't think GM was building a car to exclusively compete with the 500. They were looking at the Europeans… just as they did with Caddy and the Vette.

I think Ford realized this and as a result, they came back to play in '13 with 8.1 liters of panic induced muscle, so as to get back in the game, to get Chevy and everyone else to notice. And I think it worked, because… well why wouldn't it and all this angst from both sides should be enough to prove we noticed. Right?

The only question now, is can they parlay that into something of substance?

There's no real changes in technology… it's the same old-same old with a larger blower. Can't we agree that THAT has sorta been their habit since 03?

So… they've turned heads with this car… question now is will they continue the push?

I, for one, hope they do.

Good thanks for askin'…

Won't argue with any of that, except to say that something caused Ford to **** the bed. If it wasn't the obvious, you tell me what it was?

They've got ONE car pushing all this attention. That car has 8.1 liters of displacement on a near fully modded engine… .

GM has now three badges pushing world class overall performance, it has a suspension system which the Euro-peons are now lining up to license for their piles… a brand new engine, pushing an exquisitely appointed sports ride to high 11 second 1/4s in stock trim, down to the tires… >NA<, all of which enjoys a lofty 30MPG, for 60k.

Now tradition, as noted above, says that will all be lined up in the GM Ponies in short order.

Be honest now… do ya really believe that Chevy hasn't figured out that a bigger blower will make their lineup faster?

That they didn't run to larger blowers… does that perhaps tell ya that they're not looking to Ford for clues on the future? Do ya not think that Ford doesn't know that?

So, at the moment, the 500 outruns its would-be Pony competitor, in a straight line, along with the new base vette… so far.

Question is, what's next from Ford?

And THERE IN, lies the rest of the story.

I honestly can't believe that you're pinning all your hopes on this car… cause if Ford is to survive this, it won't be with this car.

My hope is that they've used this play to reposition themselves for the introduction of something new, revolutionary, in terms of the entire Ford package.

Otherwise… well, it ain't gonna be good, that's for sure.

But I gotta believe that they've got something big cooking.

 

Come on Irene, you're better than that. Don't give up so easy.

(But hey! On the bright side, Whoever Mac is, his stock just shot thru the roof!)

 

If the Mustang disappeared for 7/8 years, you bet your *** off I'd be excited when it returned and ****** one up!! That's what happened with the 5th gens.

 

 

it did disappear in the 70's.

 

Yep… And they're gettin' better every year.

I gotta tell ya. I talk with 5th gen owners every time I get the chance and those guy (and gals) LOVE those cars. I have yet to run across a fence sitter.

One of my favorite is a MASSIVE human being that I met through a mutual friend. That guy is like 6.7, gotta be 275 MINIMUM. A wall of a man. Guy bought a used 2010… ABSOLUTELY LOVES that car.

He's had it for a couple years now and I saw him a few months back… STILL in love with the car.

Man… that's money for a manufacturer.

Add to that the aftermarket is killing it for the 5th gens. We're starting to see some sick fast 5th gens and it's just going to continue, because the chassis on those car are STOUT. They're holding up very well under 'road hard put up wet conditions'.

 

they we're supposed to continue with their own engine in the 3rd gen. at the last second gm said no. that's why Pontiacs had a "turbo" hood.

 

Whoohohohoohoo… ****.

Yeah… well, there ya go.

 

quality wise the 5th gen is leaps and bounds better than a 4th. but it just doesn't tickle my fancy. no coochie coo.

 

Alright who stole my damn Weedwacker engine.......

Hows that thing go from sounding so good at idle to that......

 

It's incredible what a 9s car these days constitutes, compared to what that meant just 10 years ago.

 

The 70s… I had a blast. But I road moto-x and drive a Toyota…

LOL! I remember one of Mom's Caddies had a "Fuel Economy" light… WHATTA A PIG.

The 70s were not kind to the car biz. These kids have no idea what SUCK really is. Try sitting in a half mile long line to get a MAXIMUM of 5 gallons of gas on your day!

But the beer was flowing and ladies… they were all ~BRAND NEW~ and that was nice.

 

I see you picked the worst thing you could talk aboot...

but yes. no sound good