ls1 Trans Am vs 2014 5.0 Coyote
05-02-2014, 01:17 PM
#481
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Thanks for the laughs guys. It was asked earlier about the future displacement of the 5.0...
Just a tid bit of info for you guys the mustang 5.0 will not grow in displacement thru model year 2018. (I communicate with the Ford powertrain team on a daily basis)
Yes the new alpha chassis camaro will have an 6.2L LT1. and yes it will be lighter, probably not as much as everyone was hoping though. Look at the curb weight of a loaded RWD cadillac ATS and add a few pounds.
The most exciting thing happening for the 6th gen camaro will be the new ZL1 which will be one particularly nasty sporting a LT4 under the hood. (see C7 Z06)
Carry-on....
Just a tid bit of info for you guys the mustang 5.0 will not grow in displacement thru model year 2018. (I communicate with the Ford powertrain team on a daily basis)
Yes the new alpha chassis camaro will have an 6.2L LT1. and yes it will be lighter, probably not as much as everyone was hoping though. Look at the curb weight of a loaded RWD cadillac ATS and add a few pounds.
The most exciting thing happening for the 6th gen camaro will be the new ZL1 which will be one particularly nasty sporting a LT4 under the hood. (see C7 Z06)
Carry-on....
. I wonder why they tooled in DI bosses without intending to use them for so long? Is DI that costly?
05-02-2014, 01:19 PM
#482
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The short-term evolution of the 5.0 will be even more rpm, more aggressive cams, revised heads, and hopefully an active manifold to create a dual pattern torque peak.
05-02-2014, 01:27 PM
#483
There's a few reasons they haven't switched over yet, you are correct cost of the fueling system is one. Another is carbon build up in the cylinder head. GM has had problems with carbon build-up on their DI engines but nobody wants to talk about it.
The short-term evolution of the 5.0 will be even more rpm, more aggressive cams, revised heads, and hopefully an active manifold to create a dual pattern torque peak.
The short-term evolution of the 5.0 will be even more rpm, more aggressive cams, revised heads, and hopefully an active manifold to create a dual pattern torque peak.
. So, what causes the carbon buildup? Is the fuel just not being properly burned? You'd imagine with the high compression they run on those motors that they would burn very efficiently. Or is it an actual port issue that is just impeding flow and causing them to collect carbon? Sorry for all the questions, but thanks so much for all of you insight!
05-02-2014, 01:36 PM
#485
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There's a few reasons they haven't switched over yet, you are correct cost of the fueling system is one. Another is carbon build up in the cylinder head. GM has had problems with carbon build-up on their DI engines but nobody wants to talk about it.
The short-term evolution of the 5.0 will be even more rpm, more aggressive cams, revised heads, and hopefully an active manifold to create a dual pattern torque peak.
The short-term evolution of the 5.0 will be even more rpm, more aggressive cams, revised heads, and hopefully an active manifold to create a dual pattern torque peak.
05-02-2014, 01:37 PM
#486
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That sounds like a nasty little 5.0 . So, what causes the carbon buildup? Is the fuel just not being properly burned? You'd imagine with the high compression they run on those motors that they would burn very efficiently. Or is it an actual port issue that is just impeding flow and causing them to collect carbon? Sorry for all the questions, but thanks so much for all of you insight!
. So, what causes the carbon buildup? Is the fuel just not being properly burned? You'd imagine with the high compression they run on those motors that they would burn very efficiently. Or is it an actual port issue that is just impeding flow and causing them to collect carbon? Sorry for all the questions, but thanks so much for all of you insight!This is just one theory as to the cause for the carbon build up, but it certainly has been documented that DI engines tend to build carbon deposits faster than port fuel injected engines. Look at Toyota/Lexus ISF V8 fuel injection. They use a combination of port and DI to help combat this.
05-02-2014, 01:55 PM
#487
The carbon-build up process is a bit more complicated than I care to get into at the moment. But short story: it has to do with the fact that our gasoline has certain cleansing qualities (partially due to the detergents present in modern fuels) Traditional port injection forces the fuel past the intake valves cleaning them as they pass. During DI the fuel does not see the back of the valve causing carbon build-up and changes in compression ratio and/or poor performance/ rough idle due to valves improperly sealing.
This is just one theory as to the cause for the carbon build up, but it certainly has been documented that DI engines tend to build carbon deposits faster than port fuel injected engines. Look at Toyota/Lexus ISF V8 fuel injection. They use a combination of port and DI to help combat this.
This is just one theory as to the cause for the carbon build up, but it certainly has been documented that DI engines tend to build carbon deposits faster than port fuel injected engines. Look at Toyota/Lexus ISF V8 fuel injection. They use a combination of port and DI to help combat this.
05-02-2014, 01:55 PM
#488
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The carbon-build up process is a bit more complicated than I care to get into at the moment. But short story: it has to do with the fact that our gasoline has certain cleansing qualities (partially due to the detergents present in modern fuels) Traditional port injection forces the fuel past the intake valves cleaning them as they pass. During DI the fuel does not see the back of the valve causing carbon build-up and changes in compression ratio and/or poor performance/ rough idle due to valves improperly sealing.
This is just one theory as to the cause for the carbon build up, but it certainly has been documented that DI engines tend to build carbon deposits faster than port fuel injected engines. Look at Toyota/Lexus ISF V8 fuel injection. They use a combination of port and DI to help combat this.
This is just one theory as to the cause for the carbon build up, but it certainly has been documented that DI engines tend to build carbon deposits faster than port fuel injected engines. Look at Toyota/Lexus ISF V8 fuel injection. They use a combination of port and DI to help combat this.
05-02-2014, 03:10 PM
#489
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Its also interesting to see the DI boosted 4 cyl. LNF motors do not seem to have this problem and they have been around since 2005.
05-02-2014, 03:16 PM
#490
05-02-2014, 03:17 PM
#491
Yep, that is how GM is combating the problem currently. The problem is most of the general public wont do this maintenance. With the wide variance in the quality of gas across the country some DI engines will live long lives without seeing any problems while others will have heavy carbon deposits after only 20K miles.
Its also interesting to see the DI boosted 4 cyl. LNF motors do not seem to have this problem and they have been around since 2005.
Its also interesting to see the DI boosted 4 cyl. LNF motors do not seem to have this problem and they have been around since 2005.
05-02-2014, 03:19 PM
#492
Yep, that is how GM is combating the problem currently. The problem is most of the general public wont do this maintenance. With the wide variance in the quality of gas across the country some DI engines will live long lives without seeing any problems while others will have heavy carbon deposits after only 20K miles.
Its also interesting to see the DI boosted 4 cyl. LNF motors do not seem to have this problem and they have been around since 2005.
Its also interesting to see the DI boosted 4 cyl. LNF motors do not seem to have this problem and they have been around since 2005.
05-02-2014, 07:48 PM
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05-02-2014, 07:57 PM
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05-02-2014, 08:03 PM
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Distance from the crank to the deck of the block aka where the heads mate to the block.
SBF is 8.2, 351 is 9.5...
Last edited by snake95; 05-02-2014 at 08:12 PM.
05-02-2014, 08:07 PM
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Deck Height is the space between the piston dome and the combustion chamber, at top dead center (TDC). When you are building an engine, it is a good idea to measure the deck height and adjust it as necessary to achieve the proper specs.
It is most critical to check your deck height if your crankcase was surfaced, your heads have been flycut, or if you are changing pistons or cylinders. Even if your machine shop has told you how much they removed during resurfacing, you should check deck height.
There are several ways to make this measurement, but we feel this is a fast and fairly accurate way.
You will need a pair of Vernier or Dial calipers, some acid core solder and possibly extra cylinder base shims. The reason we use acid core solder instead of clay is that clay is too soft to measure. Acid core solder is large in diameter (about 3mm), which will allow for a large range of measurement.
The center of the solder is filled with acid flux. Once you remove the acid (careful, it is rather corrosive), the hollow solder crushes very easily. This saves you from damaging your pistons like solid or rosin core solder can. Also, it is available at most hardware, craft or auto parts stores.
The deck measurement is made after you have completed the assembly of the crank case or bottom end, prior to installation of your pistons and cylinders.
Let's start with cylinder #1. Install your piston with both circlips; you won't have to remove it. Then select the cylinder base gasket you are going to start with. The cylinder base gaskets that come in your gasket kit are 0.25mm thick. If you know your heads were surfaced 0.25mm then you must start with two stock shims under your cylinder, or better yet, use one 0.5mm shim. Special shims are available here at C.E. and other true performance shops.
Now place the shim or shims under your cylinder and install the cylinder.
Turn the crank until the piston is a few mm below top dead center. Cut two pieces of acid core solder about one inch long. The solder doesn't have to be this long, but this length is easier to handle. Use a razor blade or sharp knife to cut the solder, you want nice square ends, not pinched.
It is most critical to check your deck height if your crankcase was surfaced, your heads have been flycut, or if you are changing pistons or cylinders. Even if your machine shop has told you how much they removed during resurfacing, you should check deck height.
There are several ways to make this measurement, but we feel this is a fast and fairly accurate way.
You will need a pair of Vernier or Dial calipers, some acid core solder and possibly extra cylinder base shims. The reason we use acid core solder instead of clay is that clay is too soft to measure. Acid core solder is large in diameter (about 3mm), which will allow for a large range of measurement.
The center of the solder is filled with acid flux. Once you remove the acid (careful, it is rather corrosive), the hollow solder crushes very easily. This saves you from damaging your pistons like solid or rosin core solder can. Also, it is available at most hardware, craft or auto parts stores.
The deck measurement is made after you have completed the assembly of the crank case or bottom end, prior to installation of your pistons and cylinders.
Let's start with cylinder #1. Install your piston with both circlips; you won't have to remove it. Then select the cylinder base gasket you are going to start with. The cylinder base gaskets that come in your gasket kit are 0.25mm thick. If you know your heads were surfaced 0.25mm then you must start with two stock shims under your cylinder, or better yet, use one 0.5mm shim. Special shims are available here at C.E. and other true performance shops.
Now place the shim or shims under your cylinder and install the cylinder.
Turn the crank until the piston is a few mm below top dead center. Cut two pieces of acid core solder about one inch long. The solder doesn't have to be this long, but this length is easier to handle. Use a razor blade or sharp knife to cut the solder, you want nice square ends, not pinched.
05-02-2014, 08:15 PM
#499
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Look at this list. http://www.fordracingparts.com/downl...Dimensions.pdf
Yep! Ford 302s have the piston 8.2 inches out/in the cylinder bore
Piston deck clearance is what you're looking for, champ. Now how about YOU go do some reading before you try to talk **** to Hio or anyone else.
Yep! Ford 302s have the piston 8.2 inches out/in the cylinder bore
Piston deck clearance is what you're looking for, champ. Now how about YOU go do some reading before you try to talk **** to Hio or anyone else.
Last edited by snake95; 05-02-2014 at 08:21 PM.
05-02-2014, 08:23 PM
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Look at this list. http://www.fordracingparts.com/downl...Dimensions.pdf
Yep! Ford 302s have the piston 8.2 inches out/in the cylinder bore
Yep! Ford 302s have the piston 8.2 inches out/in the cylinder bore