*Place your bets* GT350 vs stock 6th gen
07-11-2016, 08:34 PM
#341
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oh BTW: in the motortrend video I just watched yesterday, they mention the fact that the Z28 had totally shot tires.
Also, they are close enough that the GT350 vs SS/1LE argument is going to go on for as long as the internet exists. You guys thought hearing about 03/04 Mach I vs LS1 Fbody argument had long legs....
Also, they are close enough that the GT350 vs SS/1LE argument is going to go on for as long as the internet exists. You guys thought hearing about 03/04 Mach I vs LS1 Fbody argument had long legs....
07-11-2016, 10:19 PM
#342
Track times measure those a lot better. Cayman S, ZL1 Convertible, C6 427 Convertible, C63 AMG S, '16 Camaro SS, BMW M2, BMW M4, MB SLS AMG, Jaguar F-Type R AWD, 991 C2S, R35 GT-R, 997 GT3, 1LE, Ferrari 360 CS, GT500, Lamborghini LP550-2, Jaguar F-Type V8 S, CTS-V (new one), Audi V8, GT350, etc. ALL are within .10 of each other in the Figure 8 and they all have drastically different track times all over the board. The test results seem not to mean much, do they? Not much of a test if the results aren't meaningful.
By the way, that .10 in the figure 8 you keep touting is a 0.4% difference. The 2 ft in braking is 1.9% difference... in a 109 lbs heavier car with tires that have performed worse in braking. Neither matters according to your logic.
As I already said the brakes on the GT350 are superior and the consistency will show on track days.
There was a limited run of GT350's in 2015. Every seems to have forgotten about that. The 1LE is coming out as a late 2017 model. It probably won't be out for Lightning Laps, but you never know.
I didn't know where was a video for the article to watch. I just looked at the data. I don't really follow mags all that much, I prefer to stick to real world data.
So then the Asymmetric 3 would perform even better then.
Agreed, it's not the same tire, but we were discussing braking.
The 1SS MSRP is $37k. The 1LE adds a whole lot to the car. Magnetic ride, brakes, and exhaust options a '16 1SS is already at $43k with no other options. Yeah it's a FE4 suspension, so a bump from the magnetic susp in the '16 Camaro SS. The FE4 will be comparable to the GT350's magnetic suspension, but the 1LE has an advantage since its lighter. Then the 2-piece rotors, e-diff, wheels, tires, the coolers (oil, trans, diff), recaro seats, hood, spoilers, and performance data recorder are going to bump the price up even more. The PDR requires navigation in the Stingray and it's an $1179 option, for example. You're probably right it's gonna be about $47k with no other options.
Their world beater is the Ford GT. The GT350R just aimed to handily beat the Z/28, which it has. The GT350 is just the workin' man's version (lol). The only real engineering disparity is what they did with the engine lol. Even the GT350 doesn't come with an e-diff like the 1LE will. That's way high tech man. Voodoo doesn't even have DI either!
I'm not saying that Al won't deliver, but GM also said the C7 Z06 was going to be the most track-capable Corvette ever and it overheats in a 20 minute session lol. Not that I see the 1LE having cooling problems, but so far they haven't delivered anything.
By the way, that .10 in the figure 8 you keep touting is a 0.4% difference. The 2 ft in braking is 1.9% difference... in a 109 lbs heavier car with tires that have performed worse in braking. Neither matters according to your logic.
As I already said the brakes on the GT350 are superior and the consistency will show on track days.
There was a limited run of GT350's in 2015. Every seems to have forgotten about that. The 1LE is coming out as a late 2017 model. It probably won't be out for Lightning Laps, but you never know.
I didn't know where was a video for the article to watch. I just looked at the data. I don't really follow mags all that much, I prefer to stick to real world data.
So then the Asymmetric 3 would perform even better then.
Agreed, it's not the same tire, but we were discussing braking.
The 1SS MSRP is $37k. The 1LE adds a whole lot to the car. Magnetic ride, brakes, and exhaust options a '16 1SS is already at $43k with no other options. Yeah it's a FE4 suspension, so a bump from the magnetic susp in the '16 Camaro SS. The FE4 will be comparable to the GT350's magnetic suspension, but the 1LE has an advantage since its lighter. Then the 2-piece rotors, e-diff, wheels, tires, the coolers (oil, trans, diff), recaro seats, hood, spoilers, and performance data recorder are going to bump the price up even more. The PDR requires navigation in the Stingray and it's an $1179 option, for example. You're probably right it's gonna be about $47k with no other options.
Their world beater is the Ford GT. The GT350R just aimed to handily beat the Z/28, which it has. The GT350 is just the workin' man's version (lol). The only real engineering disparity is what they did with the engine lol. Even the GT350 doesn't come with an e-diff like the 1LE will. That's way high tech man. Voodoo doesn't even have DI either!
I'm not saying that Al won't deliver, but GM also said the C7 Z06 was going to be the most track-capable Corvette ever and it overheats in a 20 minute session lol. Not that I see the 1LE having cooling problems, but so far they haven't delivered anything.
The brake option for the 6g is inflated because it is a dealer add on. The price is a rip off. It wont cost as much for the 1le neither will the other components if it is a package should be cheaper. My guess for base price on the 1le is ~44k.
Of course nothing has been delivered with the 1le. It isn't out yet. But so far..Al has delivered with the 6g on everything he said...
200lbs lighter...everyone said no way...it lost even more
Performance numbers...no way they said...runs even faster than al said....
Base SS as fast as last gen 1le...no way they said...it is right on par depending on track from the tests so far...with worse tires
The motor wont match the vette...no way...its making even more power lol
He has eluded to being very happy with the numbers on the 1le and has all but said it will beat a 350
no way they said...it wont run with the gt350....I think I know the next part...
07-11-2016, 10:51 PM
#343
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Not sure about the 3's. They are a run flat tire though. Id really be surprised if they outperformed the Michelins.
The brake option for the 6g is inflated because it is a dealer add on. The price is a rip off. It wont cost as much for the 1le neither will the other components if it is a package should be cheaper. My guess for base price on the 1le is ~44k.
Of course nothing has been delivered with the 1le. It isn't out yet. But so far..Al has delivered with the 6g on everything he said...
200lbs lighter...everyone said no way...it lost even more
Performance numbers...no way they said...runs even faster than al said....
Base SS as fast as last gen 1le...no way they said...it is right on par depending on track from the tests so far...with worse tires
The motor wont match the vette...no way...its making even more power lol
He has eluded to being very happy with the numbers on the 1le and has all but said it will beat a 350
no way they said...it wont run with the gt350....I think I know the next part...
The brake option for the 6g is inflated because it is a dealer add on. The price is a rip off. It wont cost as much for the 1le neither will the other components if it is a package should be cheaper. My guess for base price on the 1le is ~44k.
Of course nothing has been delivered with the 1le. It isn't out yet. But so far..Al has delivered with the 6g on everything he said...
200lbs lighter...everyone said no way...it lost even more
Performance numbers...no way they said...runs even faster than al said....
Base SS as fast as last gen 1le...no way they said...it is right on par depending on track from the tests so far...with worse tires
The motor wont match the vette...no way...its making even more power lol
He has eluded to being very happy with the numbers on the 1le and has all but said it will beat a 350
no way they said...it wont run with the gt350....I think I know the next part...
Good story. Glad to see that GM is delivering on their promises. I'm anxious to see what the new Z/28 is gonna be like.
07-12-2016, 12:03 AM
#345
I have no intention of getting a 1le and will probably never run a road course so I have limited interest and knowledge on the subject. Just looking at how the standard SS performs, the fact that they can benchmark and what Al has said leads me to believe the 1le should be on par with the 350 if not faster. Same goes for the z28... At the very least it should match the R. I have a feeling though that the z28 is going to really fly. Will likely cost more than the R too if I had to guess.
07-12-2016, 12:10 AM
#346
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I have no intention of getting a 1le and will probably never run a road course so I have limited interest and knowledge on the subject. Just looking at how the standard SS performs, the fact that they can benchmark and what Al has said leads me to believe the 1le should be on par with the 350 if not faster. Same goes for the z28... At the very least it should match the R. I have a feeling though that the z28 is going to really fly. Will likely cost more than the R too if I had to guess.
07-12-2016, 01:01 AM
#347
Damn catback S550 trapping what the 6gens do. The nerve! 
07-12-2016, 05:17 AM
#348
07-12-2016, 08:10 AM
#349
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It's not gonna do ya much good to get to 115 mph a 1/2 behind a 6gen . You're beat then you know.
07-12-2016, 08:23 AM
#350
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I 100% disagree on the price. It'll be $45k+. They should be releasing the pricing soon. They already have '17 order info out for Camaro SS and below, but 1LE is coming a bit later. ZL1 should be coming soon as well.
That's true, a GT350R beat a Z/28.
Only the GT350's that weren't equipped with the coolers.
I was joking about the e-diff. What I wrote was satirical.
The LT1 also has high compression and VVTI. Both cars also have dual mass flywheel and twin disc. Flat crank V8's became popular in the 60's. Even DOHC came out before pushrod tech. LT1 and Voodoo are actually both high tech engines. GM has already thrown a lot at the LT1 platforms. I would like to see a LT1 make more power from factory than the Voodoo, but I don't think we'll ever see that. They're gonna need more cubes.
Manual vs Manual, the '16 SS can't keep up with the GT350. They need that automagic and weight advantage. Makes sense, really.
GT350 doesn't have fancy wheels either, only the R. The GT350 wheels are pretty heavy actually.
That's true, a GT350R beat a Z/28.
Only the GT350's that weren't equipped with the coolers.
I was joking about the e-diff. What I wrote was satirical.
The LT1 also has high compression and VVTI. Both cars also have dual mass flywheel and twin disc. Flat crank V8's became popular in the 60's. Even DOHC came out before pushrod tech. LT1 and Voodoo are actually both high tech engines. GM has already thrown a lot at the LT1 platforms. I would like to see a LT1 make more power from factory than the Voodoo, but I don't think we'll ever see that. They're gonna need more cubes.
Manual vs Manual, the '16 SS can't keep up with the GT350. They need that automagic and weight advantage. Makes sense, really.
GT350 doesn't have fancy wheels either, only the R. The GT350 wheels are pretty heavy actually.
No they both don't have vvti....the camaro don't adjust the intake/exhaust cam timing individually. So just vvt. They have some they can pick up there. There are cam in cam push rod motors that do that.
I no care about manual vs manual....fastest of each car. You will likely stop caring about that when the mustang gets the a10. But the 1le will likely only be a manual.
Lt1 could easily make more power than a voodoo. Remember the lt1 isn't much different than the motor that goes in the pick up trucks. The cam is really mild to. Just matching the mustang clutch weight would make the 6gen a faster car. The clutch in them weighs 66lb......heavuer tgan the absurdly heavy ls7 clutch. The package is dumbed down pretty good. Lots of room for improvement. But I'm just fine with them adding cubes. How's a 550hp 525 tq 427ci lt7 sound? That could easily be done
07-12-2016, 08:40 AM
#351
However by your contradicting logic, I don't see why you bother spouting off with z28 facts when the thread title clearly says 6th gen.
I'll go post in another thread and see if you have an answer there.
07-12-2016, 10:03 AM
#354
07-12-2016, 10:13 AM
#356
07-12-2016, 11:00 AM
#359
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07-12-2016, 11:19 AM
#360
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Missed the satire....lol
No they both don't have vvti....the camaro don't adjust the intake/exhaust cam timing individually. So just vvt. They have some they can pick up there. There are cam in cam push rod motors that do that.
I no care about manual vs manual....fastest of each car. You will likely stop caring about that when the mustang gets the a10. But the 1le will likely only be a manual.
Lt1 could easily make more power than a voodoo. Remember the lt1 isn't much different than the motor that goes in the pick up trucks. The cam is really mild to. Just matching the mustang clutch weight would make the 6gen a faster car. The clutch in them weighs 66lb......heavuer tgan the absurdly heavy ls7 clutch. The package is dumbed down pretty good. Lots of room for improvement. But I'm just fine with them adding cubes. How's a 550hp 525 tq 427ci lt7 sound? That could easily be done
No they both don't have vvti....the camaro don't adjust the intake/exhaust cam timing individually. So just vvt. They have some they can pick up there. There are cam in cam push rod motors that do that.
I no care about manual vs manual....fastest of each car. You will likely stop caring about that when the mustang gets the a10. But the 1le will likely only be a manual.
Lt1 could easily make more power than a voodoo. Remember the lt1 isn't much different than the motor that goes in the pick up trucks. The cam is really mild to. Just matching the mustang clutch weight would make the 6gen a faster car. The clutch in them weighs 66lb......heavuer tgan the absurdly heavy ls7 clutch. The package is dumbed down pretty good. Lots of room for improvement. But I'm just fine with them adding cubes. How's a 550hp 525 tq 427ci lt7 sound? That could easily be done
I don't even give a **** about it right now. GT350 obviously at a disadvantage since it can't change its own gears, but still its the faster car.
If the LT1 could make that much more power so easily then GM would have done it. Fact is they failed to put another big cube small block in the C7 Z06 despite trying, so they went back to the drawing board and went forced induction. That's a known fact.
I'm not saying the LT1 can't be improved, but to call it "dumbed down pretty good" is just a slap in the face to the engineers. It's a great package from a bean counter driven company that still has to meet budgets and stringent emissions.
I've said so many times that I'd love to see an LT7 make it way to the GM performance line up. Hell, I've been asking for one since they announced the next gen LT motors and crossed my fingers before the LT4 announcement. But that was back in 2012 and there's been nothing concrete from GM so far.