Im with you, Honda needs a V8 in the RidgeLine. I think the NSX would be nice if they would put a small v8 or a turbo V6

 

Talking ****?? No, just making fun of ricers like yourself that think HP/L is a valid arguement against using a bigger motor.

Let me rephrase your question and ask you this - why not have a bigger motor, that has a low weight being that its all aluminum, doesn't use any more gas than most high performance 4 bangers (like your rice motor), sounds awesome, and has a great power band with tons of low end torque?? Wheres the disadvantage in that?? There is none, we're not talking about a gas guzzling 1970's 800lb Iron Big Block, we're talking about the Gen IV LS, no comparison.

Once again - why!! There is no point, the motor would still weigh just as much or more, wouldn't get any better fuel economy, wouldn't sound better, it would cost more to built and sell, it would cost GM millions in R&D, and have a much more complex design which is more likely to create reliability issues. Your arguement makes no sense, just give it up already.

 

GM doesn't need to go with a more complex DOHC design. Back in the early 90's GM did try the concept out in the form of the LT5 (ZR1 Vette). What was funny though was the fact that Lingenfelter was taking base vettes and modifying those to make just as much HP as the ZR1 and the total cost to the buyer was about the same as the ZR1. It simply isn't necessary for GM to make large displacement DOHC engines to keep up performance-wise with other manufactures. Besides it just adds to the variety in the automotive world.

 

The DOHC vettes can make over 600HP NA. They were pretty dumbed down from the factory. Those things might be a PITA sometimes but they are psychotically fast. Compared to even a 400HP LT1 they are pretty damn mean.

 

Found this awhile back, might be interesting for people.

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/LT5tech.htm

Specifically, the way in which GM was very concerned with fitting a DOHC powerplant into a standard chassis. Remember also that this was back in the late 80s. The design process was not nearly so cohesive as it is now. If people have not learned about things like 3D solid modelers and such and the way engineering can be done now, you should. Its absolutely sick how capable even small firms are now of taking design brilliance and making it happen for real. I played with some of those things a bit back when I was an engineering student and I can tell you that you just get this giddy feeling when you realize how we now have the tools widely available to turn design into reality in such a maleable fashion.

On top of that, think about what high 300s HP on pump gas and passing emmisions was like in the late 80s. We are talking TPI days and pre-MAF Windsor here people. First clean sheet new V8 from GM since '65. And it puts down those kind of numbers. 20 years ago. Thats cave man days by automotive standards for gods sake. 375 freakin HP from a stock small block with cats and all the other post 73 BS in the late 80s is insane. Like LS7 insane come to think of it.

Im not saying which way GM should go. Frankly a firms primary responsibility is to its shareholders. So GM should do what it takes to have a beter than .xx profit margin. GMAC is great and all, but their costs compared to revenue are just not so good. Thanks UAW. Buts that a whole different realm and frankly making anything in this contry is tough due to the fact that we are a really rich society and its easier to produce in poor ones. Skilled labor is where its at in the US and GM can't change that.

But to automatically rule out anything from our outsiders perspective is dumb. We dont know what GM skunk works teams can and cant do. We dont know what facilites are there for them to make OHC heads. We dont even know really how hard the LS7 was to produce. I will say that I can be sure it was not easy. So maybe a 6L DOHC is the way to go. I suspect the Blue Devil might really really upset some people. Fine by me. The status quo almost put Gm under. And I dont buy that "GM is too big to go bankrupt" bit. So were so many others. They need new stuff or they will die. And looking at it, they know it too. They are not making the same old stuff at all.

 

Dimensionally, the exterior of the whole LSx series is not very dissimilar. Therefore, the "V-TECHIE, cammer" motor you speak of would have to be even smaller in displacement then 5 liters. In order to get that setup even close to the current LS7's output (we're talking NA here), it would have to be an extremely high-strung, full race motor (NOT very "streetable", EVEN with your V-TECHIE). I don't know of ANY mass production auto manufacturer, NO MATTER HOW WELL BUILT, (NO, not even your "perfect" Nippon companies) that would be willing to warranty something like that for 3/36K, let alone 5/100K!! I still think the General is flat out crazy for offering that warranty on the current LS7/Z06! Bottom line is, it STILL would not fit.

Would it work in an all new C7 design? YES, but the engineers would still have to consider how the added mass/higher center of gravity/heavier front weight distribution (assuming it is front engine) will effect the handling/balance of the platform.

Look, part of (maybe MOST of) the attraction of the whole Vette thing is the absolute best "bang for the buck" performance of the WHOLE package. This is some of what allows the "status seekers" to accept buying a "lowly Chevrolet". NOTHING from Japan, let alone Europe, (no, not even your beloved TOYota motored Loti, as a TOTAL, daily usable package) even comes close, as far as the "bang for the buck" factor goes. The cost of R&Ding, tooling, and manufacturing a "techie" motor would put the Y bodies into a much higher price range. This would force those same status seekers (who DO NOT care if they support their own country's manufacturing) into what would then be close/same priced new Skylines/Lexus Supras. I would HATE to see that happen, and I'm SURE the General feels the same.

 

Um, no it would'nt. See above. Unique chain drive that cuts the size of the cam gears in half, negating a big part of why DOHC heads are larger.

 

they would still have to fit the two cams in there. it may make it narrower then traditional DOHC heads of the time, but it is still gonna be taller and wider then a pushrod engine. I have never seen an LT5 in person, but I have seen 4 valve 4.6L modular V8s with DOHC and they look pretty big to me, even with a liter less displacement then an ls1, and they make less power. for exterior dimensions and weight, the LSx motors are pretty small for their power.

 

True. But to put max displacement numbers to it is premature. As a counter example, look at a Lexus 1ZFUE engine. Very popular over in Autralia. 4L V8 DOHC. Its tiny. They put them into Miatas. LS1s are a bit of a tight squeeze into a Miata. Ford fit a DOHC V6 into one as well. And I dont have the numbers handy, but I am willing to bet there is less room between the strut towers on a C4 than a C5 or C6. Especially the 6. There is certanly less in the Miata. Hell, they can fit a DOHC 5.0 into a Focus.

Basicly, dont rule out OHC. Looking at how rapidly the Vette has advanced and the direction GM is taking, I would not rule anything out. I just hope they utilize whatever the utilize in a fashion that does not totaly redefine the Vette or Camaro. That character is important, as much so as performance in the end really. I think GM has that capability to make it work together.

 

i cant see anything else thats not push-rod on a corvette.........

 

This is basically what I was saying. Only I was bringing cost into it, as in; don't do anything that will increase the price to the point of driving perspective buyers into next gen Supras/Skylines (or even the lower cost Porsches). If GM can do this stuff and keep the costs down, then I'm ALL for it! The sad part is that this country is already heading towards there being NO MORE domestic nameplates available to purchase. Some say "good riddance". I say, even if the ONLY thing you like (or can stand) about domestic nameplate companies are the performance/muscle cars, how will you feel when you can no longer buy them?? Once they are gone, I would not count on Toyota, etc. to supply you with a fast, affordable, modifiable Supra that sooo many of you think will happen. It won't, as they will have NO reason/need to. They will then be the auto God, and can do as they please without answering to ANYBODY (with the possible exception of their shareholders, who won't give a $h!t about ANYTHING but the bottom line/profits, NOT performance images).

 

I used hp/liter to compare two LSX motors...you tool.
Engineering on the LS7 huh....I am a licensed proffesional mechanical engineer. I know a little about what make the car go vroom vroom. What new technology of any substance is in the LS7?

I think the C6 Z06 is a phenomoinal car, but the LS7 was not made by God, have an open mind, don't be a sheep.

I wasnt tryign to pick a fight with you, you made a statement that was false regarding the technology, I stated you were wrong, I didnt make fun of your mom or anything.

 

Think of the cost to mod....

One cam is cheaper to buy than four...

HP per Litre? I got a Turbo Buick that can play that particular game... 593 rwhp * 1.15 / 3.8 = a lot more than a Honder.

 

Not more than a 700 hp Turbo 2.0 Honda.

700/2 = a lot more than a buick :-P

 

What about torque per litre...695rwtq * 1.15 / 3.8 = more than a lot

 

no doubt.....i have a ROWE blown RT10, I know a little about tourque :-P cheers

 

Torque is cool

 

You can have your torque. I'll take horespower FTW.

 

Both! Need 'em both...get it movin' then keep it movin'...

 

and its also a quick way to go broke