modmotor

Thanx

The suspension geometry is totally different. In a solid rear end(the most primative) both wheels share the same axis. This intern, makes for an uncomfortable ride and offers less performance, since both wheels respond according to the other.

nfa

To address your points:

a) You are downplaying the handling performance of a fbody if you are saying its only place its making up ground is the straights. If the s2000 was so devasting around the corners, there would be enough corners (15 at thunderhill), for it to make up the difference in the few straights. The point is, a fbody isnt as slow around the corners as you make it out to be. It has inferior live axle rear, but this is less of a concern on a smooth racetrack surface as it is on the street. You also overlook the benefit of its excellent SLA front susp, wide track, and tire advantage.

b) your point about equal power makes no sense. We were comparing stock fbody against stock s2000. If you are going to equal the power, then why not let the fbody lose 400 lbs too?

c) It seems that a lot of ppl have different views on what handling is. I would agree that a s2000 is more pleasurable to drive around a road course than a fbody. But if you define "handling" by an objective measure, like laptimes, or who came first in a race, then the fbody isnt as inferior as you make it out to be. Last time I checked, road course races were determined by which car crossed the line first and not which handled more precisely. A lotus elise is probably more "flickable" and precise than a c6 z06... but a z06 will annhilate it around almost any road course... does the lotus "handle" better than a z06???

nfa

There is a difference between theory and practice. A rear engine set up behind the axle is also a theoretically inferior set up, yet through evolution and engineering, porsche has somehow managed to make some very fine handling cars. Macpherson struts are also an inferior suspension layout (gaining camber as cornering loads increase), yet M3's sport them and they seem to do ok on road courses...

Irunelevens

Actually yes, a Lotus Elise/Exige does handle better than a Z06. And an S2000 does handle better than a stock F-body. I think what he was getting at with the "equal power" thing is that if you gave both cars the same amount/type of power, lap times would reflect that.

nfa

If thats the case, I'll take the car with the poor "handling", yet faster around the race track. The stopwatch dont lie.

modmotor

You obviously haven't driven an S2k/Lotus/Miata to state your position. Why dont you ask the opinions of people that autocross.

nfa

I dont need to ask the opinion of autocrossers. I respect the sport, but cone dodging in a parking lot isnt for me. I attend a few hpde/ open track days each year. as i might have stated in this or another thread involving s2000's, actually yes, i do have seat time in a s2000... a turbocharged one at that - at shannonville motorsports park. I know they handle well. And having open tracked my own fbody, I know that on larger tracks, we can equal and surpass s2000's. I dont remember ever saying that fbodys>s2000s at all racetracks.

Irunelevens

Yes, but you did imply that the F-body was faster around the track for reasons OTHER than superior straightline speed. The S2000 handles/brakes better, and the only reason an F-body would be faster around a track is superior straightline speed. It handles well enough to be able to make up the difference, but not comparable to an S2000.

dailydriver

True. But most race courses I've ever seen are NOT one big slalom/skidpad/sharp turn!!

dailydriver

Worse yet, I suspect that he's from a "rice board" sent over here to try and knock, defame, and or make us look bad as domestic/f body owners.
That or he really is "pissy Chrissy" (25/45 psi) with yet another username so that he can come on here and start ****.

modmotor

Are you refering to me?

dailydriver

Autocrosses are a totally different world all together!! Most of the courses around here have turns with radii smaller than the wheelbase of f bodies! DUH! No wonder your little tiny cars do better. They would kill f bodies on this type of course (as well as "go kart" tracks) even if the domestics were allowed to use; "great" independent rear suspensions, 16" wide full race slicks, 2500# weight minimums, etc.!!!

dailydriver

Now, are you the one who everyone is calling out/blasting in this thread?? Really, how could you even think I was referring to you?!!
As far as I know, NightWindDriftr was NOT referring to you with his post (which I quoted), so I don't even understand where you got this idea.

Maybe it's because I'm still perplexed as to why I keep getting bashed/lambasted/dissed by the Blue Ovals on here for not worshipping/loving/defending import nameplates (as most of them on here, it seems, do), while defending/respecting Ford (and other domestic nameplate products).
Do all of you just figure that the GM hatred against you is soooo great that you "might as well" side with/team up with the imports against us?? And yes, I will admit, I'm just as baffled by the GM owners on here that say, "I will own a riced out Civic as my ONLY ride, before I own a "Mudstain"<--.

Of course, all of the above is moot if your username does not refer to the Ford engine I think it does (or if you really ARE 25/45psi/pssonu/"Chrissy" ).

JD_AMG

I agree with all your other points, but the C6 Z06 doesnt handle quite as good as the Exige/Elise, but no doubt can handle really really well.
Handling is generally how much speed you can hold in a turn. The Elise might be able to hold a little more speed through some turns, and have sharper responses, but thats not going to make up for the big power and just as good, if not better braking the Z06 has. Thats why a Z06 would be in front of an Elise on most tracks.

nfa

Not to nitpick, but actually a camaro ss brakes from 60-0 in 129 feet, compared to the s2000's 134 feet, according to r&t in the same test that showed the ss lapping faster than the s2k.

It handles well enough to lap faster than a s2000 depending on the track. Sorry, that is fact and not opinion.

Results from this years scca runoffs in touring class - basically safety mods...
T3 - where s2000's race http://www.scca.com/documents/resultfiles/SSB_T31.pdf Fastest s2k - 1:50's
T2 - where the fbodies race http://www.scca.com/documents/result..._T2_Qual_1.pdf Fastest fbody 1:47's Of course, not the same driver, but at the national level, you expect the variance between drivers to be smaller than at your run of the mill track day.

*off topic.. wow that soltice is fast.

dailydriver

Those little imports were !! A faster lap is a faster lap, the import lovers/defenders can argue all they want, but that much IS FACT!!

Irunelevens

As far as braking is concerned, for one I don't like using magazine tests, as they are all over the place. And if you want to, 134ft for the S2000 is probably the worst I've ever seen. But you're absolutely right... because the S2000 recorded a slower time on that track than the F-body, the F-body obviously handles just as well as the S2000 if not better. I mean afterall, the S2000 only weighs 500lbs less, has a vastly-superior suspension design, and has better structural rigidity. But you're right... we're all just "import lovers/defenders." Get real...

rodrigosantos

So all Mexicans are dumb?

Stop those racist comments

I am Mexican you dumb ****, and a lot of members here.

So please dont take this kid`s stupidity and assume hes a Mexican.

BLACKTURBOS2K

So you assume Im dumb because Im black

dailydriver

Genius; please show me where I said the f bodies "handle better" than your precious little Honda. I merely stated that it got beat on lap times, and just like I called it (and true to form) you fanboyzz argue even that fact.
It's nice/great that "your" little import "handles better" than my big, heavy, "ill handling mulletmobile".<- It's also nice/great to get across the finish line first (even in your "twisties", on "your" road courses).