mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

I would hardly say that the F body has a focus on drag racing. Otherwise it would have factory 15" wheels, small or no front sway bar, looser front suspension, etc. Just because it does well in drag racing does not make that its intended purpose. It was built to be a powerful car at a decent price, which it is. It also turns out that it responds well to mods.

Also, you will see a lot of people posting drag times who cars are not set up for drag racing. Street tires, no suspension mods, full weight, etc. The average driver would wreck their car on a road course from pushing it too hard, that really isnt a problem at a drag strip. Plus drag strips are much more common. So just because you see a lot of drag times posted does not make them drag cars.

ThisBlood147

This thread is very informative.

chaman

iTrader: (5)

Specially the accurate definition of sports car....According to some I own a sport car!!!yeahh,baby!! LOL!

Import Al

All true, sir. But big power, decent gearing & relatively low weight all don't hurt! Drag is the most popular form of sanctioned amateur racing in the US. After 30 years of making the F-Body & people running them at the strip and having fun & success, the good word must have got to GM's designers. Thankfully they kept the "formula" the same when they created the LS1 cars, but still made them handle exceptionally well for their size & drag capabilities. Nothing wrong with a powerful car at a decent price, but I don't think their drag performance was simply a coincidence.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

The term "sports car" can encompass many things such as roadsters (Miata), sport compacts (Cobalt SS), performance sedans and SUVs (Charger R/T), muscle cars (Z28), etc. It's a blanket term.

For the sake of sporting, let's play the 1/4 mile game now. Tell me which one doesn't belong in this list. Here's a hint: it rhymes with S2000.

Corvette
Fort GT
Dodge Viper
Camaro Z28
S2000

But wait! The S2K only has two seats! So do the other cars in my list except the SLOWMARO! 2+2 seating does not = sports car!!

Well, these cars don't agree:
RX-8
911
3000GT
456 GT
Audi TT

Yeah, I had to dig a little for the list, but it didn't take long. We can go back and forth about what makes a sports car a sports car all day long. 2 seats? IRS? 0.98 at the skidpad? 7:40 or better laptime at the Nurburgring? Less than 13.5 quartermile? Better than 1.8 60'? Traps +110?

Any car meant to compete in some type of autosport is a sports car as far as most people are concerned. If it makes 350Z owners feel cool to think that they dropped $35K on a "real sports car", fine. Is it a sports car? Absolutely.

And then you get taken in the 1/4 by a lowly Z28 or TA in what you thought was a guaranteed low 13s car just because VeeTec posted the slip. What do you say then?

"Well, at least I have a sports car. That Camaro is a cheap POS that is a non-sports-car car."

Semantics, just like Unit said.

Irunelevens

OHV and Pushrod are the same thing

Just cuz it doesn't have 350lb/ft of torque, doesn't make it slow... since they can run mid-high 13s @ ~100mph (sometimes faster), it definitely falls into the "quick" category. And nobody that's ever driven one hard and fast can deny that it is one of the purest sports cars made, especially for the price. And I disagree that any car built with "sport" in mind is a sports car. Sometimes boundaries have to be set as to what falls into a category. Case in point, if you take a Miata (sports car) and drop a 502ci V8 in it, does that make it a muscle car? No... it makes it a sports car with a big *** V8 in it. If I take the backseat out of my Mustang (pony car), switch to full coilover suspension, swap in the IRS from a Cobra, and drop 500lbs, does that make it a sports car? No... it makes it a much-improved pony car.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

Finally, something we disagree about. Too bad it had to be something dumb like this.

One mark of a sports car is its acceleration. You can call me on "not looking hard enough" (I admit I didn't) but I haven't heard of a stock Miata breaking into the 13s, either routinely or occasionally. IIRC it's a mid-high 14s car at best.

You gave a Miata an engine with ***** - it's now a really fast Miata

You gave a Mustang a performance suspension - it's now a competent handler.

They're both still sports cars, though.

Irunelevens

I was talking about the S2000 running 13s, not the Miata

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

I know that!

The Miata can track like its on rails all day long, but is outclassed by the S2K IMO. If the inferior Miata can be a sports car like the S2K, how can the Mustang not be? Especially with IRS and coilovers like you gave it?

EDIT: I see how you misread my post, my bad. I homed in on the Miata with mods vs Mustang with mods comparo. No comment on the S2K, which is not slow by any means. Had a very memorable drive in one.

odarabla

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Irunelevens;8800202]OHV and Pushrod are the same thing



I know but thanks for clearing that up for me.. I think I just like to say it. Push rod, Push rod, OOOOHHHHHHH Push rod!! Although that did sound sorta gay.. LOL

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Compared to the rest of that list it IS dog *** slow. Its all about the company you keep.

ROWDYZ28

I gotta pipe in on this one but I almost bought an 07 350Z before my Z28 and it doesn't have shi* on my Z28. Raced a cpl and smoked both of them. Full bolt on's , 373 pro built 4L60E, vette shift kit.

JD_AMG

I understand and agree with what you are saying here, but I think I see the problem. People are seeing us saying the fbodies are not "sports cars" and assuming thats a bad thing. Being a "sports car" is no "better" than being a "muscle car" or "GT", its just a classification of the car. So when I say they are not sports car, Im not saying they don't, or cannot perform like a sports car, they are just not in that category.
I disagree with this. IMO FailWheelDrive cars are not sports cars. BUT that does not mean they are bad performance cars, or cannot perform like a sports car.
Like I say above, saying its not a "sports car" is NOT an insult, or a bad thing.
What if a company built a truck that could pull .90Gs on the skidpad, run 12s in the 1/4 mile and brake 60-0mph in 100ft, would that be a sports car then? No, it would be a performance truck. Does that mean it cannot beat sports cars? Hell no, it just means isn't a sports car.

JD_AMG

Those are GTs. (hence the "GT" after 2 of them)

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

This is incorrect. Overhead cam engines (OHC) are also overhead valve (OHV) engines and do not have pushrods. OHV means that the valves are over the piston not in the block next to the cylinder bore like flatheads were. It has nothing to do with where the cam is located.

JD_AMG

Overhead valve engines are pushrod engines, Overhead cam engines are overhead cam engines.
http://www.samarins.com/glossary/dohc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_valve

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

True. But it has become typical for cam in block/pushrod engines with OHV to be simply referred to as OHV. I guess just another way things get simplified or dumbed down.
Its funny to see that flatheads are still in use, like in small engines. Just sheap and easy to manufacture.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Directly from your link-
"In automotive engineering, an overhead valve internal combustion engine is one in which the intake and exhaust valves and ports are contained in the cylinder head." Therefore, according to your link, OHC engines are also in fact OHV.
Like he said, the term was originally intended to differentiate between flatheads, which had the valvetrain in the block, and engines with the valves in the cylinder head, or over the piston instead of next to it in the block.

suprastars

Its a GT car. There's no other catergory to label it as.

suprastars

A Lotus is a tad bit quicker than an S2k. So do you not consider this a sports car?

A camaro is not in the same league as an S2k on a track. Granted it might pull similar times, but thats due to the power advantage on the staights.

Ask any Corvette, Evo, Miata, Porsche, Viper owner, about the capabilites/differences in the cars and they will tend to agree with me. You need to modify the suspension to a camaro, just to hang with an S2k.