Street Racing & Kill Stories Basic Technical Questions & Advice

02 Z28 vs 05+ Stang GT

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Old 06-27-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin00SS
No I haven't.

I still poke around at 3.8mustang
Old 06-27-2008, 01:55 PM
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Ok Well to clarify for jawsgt and 2k05gt unless you'r racing one of these two guy's who aparently are the exception then most 05+ gt's are nothing to worry about for a stock f-body...
And to 2k05gt dont tell me my post is complete b.s. just because you'r car is the exception! I've personally witnessed over 20 TRACK passes on 3 seperate occasions and weather conditions from this gt and none of them were quicker than a 13.2 @ 105, and as for the shitty driver excuse incase you didnt catch it the first time ITS A AUTOMATIC and he was dead hooking. Just because this is one of the only modded new edge stangs i've seen run and it happens to be slow does not make it b.s. Otherwise one could say the same about you! How many friends with gt's do you have that run mid 12's with just boltons???

Looks like you guy's got yourselves factory freaks there, good job, now why dont you go brag about it on ur mustang forums!
Old 06-27-2008, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 2k05gt
TOTAL BS..
I have a Stock S197 with Stock Motor and Automatic Tranny with just bolt-ons and I run Consistant 12.5's Best time 12.41 @ 109.35 mph.
Intake, Tune, LT Headers, gears Major Mods
UDP, CMDP, Aluminum DS, Che LCA Minor Mods.
thats my complete list.
I ran 13.3's with just Intake and Gears and best Stock times 13.6's
Don't base your perception on a car by one CRAPPY driver.

Here are my time slips
I am 5197
# 28 2004 Corvette (Stock)
# 821 2006 Mustang (Instake and Tune M5)
# 853 2005 GTO (Exhaust, ???)
That track is also at sea level, well 100 feet anyway. Not to take away from your car, but at that same track a stock LS1 will probably trap 108.

05+ gt's are definately nice cars though, wish someone around here had one and actually knew how to drive it.
Old 06-27-2008, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chavez885
That track is also at sea level, well 100 feet anyway. Not to take away from your car, but at that same track a stock LS1 will probably trap 108.
My track is 632ft above and I was in slightly less than perfect DA.... at sea level with better conditions I would expect a 109+ from my car...
Old 06-27-2008, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Irunelevens
Yeah, I noticed that too... good run OP. A lot of people (on this site, especially) like to underestimate what the S-197s can do with a good driver, but apparently you got to see. Good luck with future races
They've got alot of low end torque and pretty good through 1st and 2nd but tend to fall off after that. Plus they sacrificed aerodyamics with that old school body style so at 80+ that really hurts them. I have a mildly modded LS1 GTO A4 and a stock '05+ GT 5-spd gave me a good run at the drag strip.

We raced numerous times and I would always pull away slowly when I got traction but I didn't pull from him like I thought I would. Those GT's really wake up with a tune.
Old 06-27-2008, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Badguy7
Haha, well some ppl on here tell me im stock, even with the mods i have on in my sig. So i just went with stock, plus kinda didnt wanna tell the guy what i had exactly lol
I have been told I'm almost stock on this web site also with my mods
I don’t say I'm stock because I'm not. . . Someppl think lid is not a mod. Yeah is not much but is something to help performance. When I try to tell someone I'm about to race what mods I have, I tell him I have SLP lid & bellow, Ram air kit, Cat back, STB, TA, LCA’s, PHR, Predator Tune and he asks me what’s Lower control arms,Torque arm,Panhard Bar He doesn't know what those parts are, I tell him it's suspension parts. Turn that around and If I tell him i have suspension upgrades and i still have to explain.
Maybe thats the reason i race them.They have no idea what parts helps your car use the power efficiently
That’s my 8 cents due to inflation
Old 06-27-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jawsgt
and sorry no ls1 swap. 3v cars love bolt ons. my car ran 13.6 @ 102 as a best stock. with a 1100$ in mods it now traps 9 mph faster consistently and there is still a few more things to wake it up. i honestly expect this car to trap 112 if i had everything 2k has.

I didn't realize the things could trap so high with such things done
Old 06-27-2008, 07:18 PM
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well on the norm these cars trap around a 108 with similar mods as mine, atleast thats wut i c on the forums. i honestly havent seen 1 trap quite as high as mine tho
Old 06-27-2008, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jawsgt
well on the norm these cars trap around a 108 with similar mods as mine, atleast thats wut i c on the forums. i honestly havent seen 1 trap quite as high as mine tho
LTs are the trick...I've seen numerous 3Vs trapping 107 ~ 108 with only CAI and a tune.
Old 06-28-2008, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 01ws666
Ok Well to clarify for jawsgt and 2k05gt unless you'r racing one of these two guy's who aparently are the exception then most 05+ gt's are nothing to worry about for a stock f-body...
And to 2k05gt dont tell me my post is complete b.s. just because you'r car is the exception! I've personally witnessed over 20 TRACK passes on 3 seperate occasions and weather conditions from this gt and none of them were quicker than a 13.2 @ 105, and as for the shitty driver excuse incase you didnt catch it the first time ITS A AUTOMATIC and he was dead hooking. Just because this is one of the only modded new edge stangs i've seen run and it happens to be slow does not make it b.s. Otherwise one could say the same about you! How many friends with gt's do you have that run mid 12's with just boltons???

Looks like you guy's got yourselves factory freaks there, good job, now why dont you go brag about it on ur mustang forums!
i'm more stock than wes is and i've run the GT he's reffering to. when i had a bad vaccum leak the GT was beatin me by more than a car and then when i fixed the vaccum leak we ran and both times i beat him by a fender he looked at me like "wow your car got faster" lol he couldn't break 13's with a 3000 stall and dr's yet i can hit 13.2 on street tires and a stock stall and you guys have LT's, this GT doesn't and the owner refuses to get them because he says they don't gain that much btw there's quite a few of us on here who've seen this GT run and have run him before so before you call BS why don't you actually believe wes and i before we get some people in here to actually back up what were sayin is he slow no he's not, but they aren't as fast as some of you ford guys make it seem like. give a new GT the same mods (almost the same mods since we have total different engines) as a LS1 and i'm willin to bet my car that the LS1 would win everytime

btw nice kill OP
Originally Posted by 2k05gt
TOTAL BS..
I have a Stock S197 with Stock Motor and Automatic Tranny with just bolt-ons and I run Consistant 12.5's Best time 12.41 @ 109.35 mph.
Intake, Tune, LT Headers, gears Major Mods
UDP, CMDP, Aluminum DS, Che LCA Minor Mods.
thats my complete list.
I ran 13.3's with just Intake and Gears and best Stock times 13.6's
Don't base your perception on a car by one CRAPPY driver.
your car isn't stock so you aren't included now take your head out of your *** the guy's GT were referring to ran a best of 13.2 with intake pulley gears a tune and dr's him=stock you=not-stock
Old 06-28-2008, 08:46 AM
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My trap speed is lower because I run a 275 40 17 BFG Drag Radial, they are a short tire, 25" tall the stock height is 27 with my 4.10 gears and the short tires my acual ratio is close to 4.30.

you can see the difference compaired to the stock tires here


I could see better 60' times if I get a stall, the stock stall is only 1800. that can gut another 3 to 4 tenths off my times so I could see 11's easy.

Originally Posted by 01ws666
Ok Well to clarify for jawsgt and 2k05gt unless you'r racing one of these two guy's who aparently are the exception then most 05+ gt's are nothing to worry about for a stock f-body...
And to 2k05gt dont tell me my post is complete b.s. just because you'r car is the exception! I've personally witnessed over 20 TRACK passes on 3 seperate occasions and weather conditions from this gt and none of them were quicker than a 13.2 @ 105, and as for the shitty driver excuse incase you didnt catch it the first time ITS A AUTOMATIC and he was dead hooking. Just because this is one of the only modded new edge stangs i've seen run and it happens to be slow does not make it b.s. Otherwise one could say the same about you! How many friends with gt's do you have that run mid 12's with just boltons???

Looks like you guy's got yourselves factory freaks there, good job, now why dont you go brag about it on ur mustang forums!
I have several friends that run 12's all day long with bolt ons here are several S197 mustangs running sub 12.5 and 11's with just bolt ons N/A,

Check out Spyder in Maryland
I race with him alot he runs 11's with bolt ons

Rench 2006 Mustang GT N/A 0 1.690 7.712 @ 90.34 MPH 12.037 @ 113.78 MPH


blackblurr2007 Mustang GT N/A 315 1.620 7.800 @ 89.44 MPH 12.293 @ 111.42 MPH

JimIII@JDM Mustang GT Auto N/A 11.649 @ 113 mph

These are friends that are 12.9 or below that belong to the Northern Virginia Mustang Club Members
Marcspaz 12.8
Boss281 12.6

On Mustang Forums.com

vsop 2007 Mustang GT/CS Coupe N/A 321.79 1.454 7.785 @ 86.58 MPH 12.686 @ 109.38 MPH


nautiluscont 2005 Mustang GT N/A 308 1.700 8.143 @ 83.8 MPH 12.700 @ 107.61 MPH


Fool4Parts 2008 GT N/A 0 1.714 8.146 @ 84.98 MPH 12.752 @ 107.02 MPH


Sleeper05 2005 Mustang GT N/A 306 1.967 8.254 @ 85.759 MPH 12.779 @ 108.755 MPH


Twister086 2005 Mustang GT N/A 300 1.795 8.231 @ 84.83 MPH 12.805 @ 107.8 MPH


757GT 2005 Mustang GT N/A 287 1.930 8.240 @ 86.46 MPH 12.820 @ 107.48 MPH


Burton9104 2005 Ford Mustang N/A 300 1.970 0.000 @ 0 MPH 12.910 @ 108.2 MPH


millertyme4lyfe 05 GT 5spd N/A 0 1.970 8.394 @ 85.71 MPH 12.920 @ 108.12 MPH


2005mach1 2005 mustang GT N/A 299.9 1.940 8.320 @ 25.34 MPH 12.960 @ 105.3 MPH


Gene K 2007 Mustang GT Deluxe N/A 290 2.020 8.382 @ 85.11 MPH 12.973 @ 107.09 MPH

Havoc06 2006 Mustnag GT N/A 271 1.815 8.309 @ 83.36 MPH 12.994 @ 104.75 MPH

these are friends around the US I know in the 12's
Anticubicle
fordracing
edyuly
silvrS197
Graigels
(the list got to big so I gave up listing them here)
here is another list of bolt on N/A S197




There are sites like https://S197forum.com that have some pretty fast S197 Mustangs on there.
Some Supercharged and some N/A

Last year I ran 12.8 with just intake, tune, gears, UDP, LCA
and I have an Automatic, a manual can do it with just intake and tune, My car is not a factory freak, you just need to find the right combo of bolt ons.

Here is the video ....
http://www.youtube.com/v/j2sj72uFsVg&hl=en

There is no need for us to go and brag on the mustang sites because there are plenty that are faster than us. I could go on and on but I am tired so search for yourself there are plenty out there remove your blinders for a moment.

I know that a 5.7 or 6.0 motor will perform better, no replacment for displacment
I agree, the Ls1 / Ls2 would run faster than a mustang with the same mods, that would only make sense.

The LSx Motors are the best engines built to date I agree, Yes the Mustang has always been underpowered, I agree, The Camaro will always be faster than the Mustang mod for mod, I agree..

but don't hate on the fact that without the new mustang the Camaro would not be coming back, or the challanger may not have been built or that the muscle car era may have died and rice would have taken over. the mustang has been carrying the Mustle car banner even in the camaro absence. it's the longest running car without interuption in production, (the corvette was not built in 1983 or it would have been the longest) give it some respect

Last edited by 2k05gt; 06-28-2008 at 11:38 AM.
Old 06-28-2008, 10:10 AM
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Nice kill, OP. Sounds like a good race.
Old 06-28-2008, 12:31 PM
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Wow that was alot of info bud, I see there are some fast bolt on gt's in the country just not around me... And unless I see weight reductions lists those numbers dont mean a whole lot... but I dont care that much so no I dont want to see them... And no i'm not going to bother posting the fastest na f-body's list... though someone else can If their feelin like stirrin the pot some more.... But on the following points I would have to say................

I know that a 5.7 or 6.0 motor will perform better, no replacment for displacment
Agreed...

I agree, the Ls1 / Ls2 would run faster than a mustang with the same mods, that would only make sense.
Agreed...

The LSx Motors are the best engines built to date I agree, Yes the Mustang has always been underpowered, I agree, The Camaro will always be faster than the Mustang mod for mod, I agree..
Agreed...

but don't hate on the fact that without the new mustang the Camaro would not be coming back, or the challanger may not have been built or that the muscle car era may have died and rice would have taken over. the mustang has been carrying the Mustle car banner even in the camaro absence. it's the longest running car without interuption in production, (the corvette was not built in 1983 or it would have been the longest) give it some respect
And until GM comes out with a 5th gen T/A because of the mustang I dont really care...
Old 06-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 2k05gt
I could see better 60' times if I get a stall, the stock stall is only 1800. that can gut another 3 to 4 tenths off my times so I could see 11's easy.
I have several friends that run 12's all day long with bolt ons here are several S197 mustangs running sub 12.5 and 11's with just bolt ons N/A
is that with 4.10's and a huge stall?
Originally Posted by 2k05gt

There is no need for us to go and brag on the mustang sites because there are plenty that are faster than us. I could go on and on but I am tired so search for yourself there are plenty out there remove your blinders for a moment.
i see alot of power adders on that list but are you sure every N/A is Naturally Aspirated or maybe Not Available?
with a huge stall and gears like 4.10 yeah your gonna be mid 12's if your a good driver. what was your 1/4 time with just intake and exhaust on stock gears? don't get me wrong i'm not bein a dick i am tryin to learn about other cars also, i don't bad mouth ford's all the time lol
Originally Posted by 01ws666
And unless GM comes out with a 5th gen T/A because of the mustang I dont really care...
here wes i fixed it for ya lol
wes you forgot his GT has LCA's also and he's lowered

i personally don't consider gears a bolt on . . . but thats just me. when i think of bolt-ons i think of intake and exhaust, when a dyno is needed to recalibrate things i see it as being past a bolt on
Old 06-28-2008, 02:18 PM
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From what I gather, the newer Mustang's Spanish Oak processor is really sensitive to modifications, and most things require some sort of tuning. True?
Old 06-28-2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RaggedRides
From what I gather, the newer Mustang's Spanish Oak processor is really sensitive to modifications, and most things require some sort of tuning. True?
Its not so much that its sensitive to mods, but the fact that it runs rather rich and "tightens up," if you will, the drive-by-wire throttle system.
Old 06-28-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by King Nothing
is that with 4.10's and a huge stall?
No Stall Stock Tranny..

Originally Posted by King Nothing
i see alot of power adders on that list but are you sure every N/A is Naturally Aspirated or maybe Not Available?
N/A means Normally or Naturally Asperated, I know these cars and people some just can not afford to go FI and there are some us that refuse to use Nitrous.

Originally Posted by King Nothing
with a huge stall and gears like 4.10 yeah your gonna be mid 12's if your a good driver. what was your 1/4 time with just intake and exhaust on stock gears? don't get me wrong i'm not bein a dick i am tryin to learn about other cars also, i don't bad mouth ford's all the time lol

here wes i fixed it for ya lol
wes you forgot his GT has LCA's also and he's lowered

i personally don't consider gears a bolt on . . . but thats just me. when i think of bolt-ons i think of intake and exhaust, when a dyno is needed to recalibrate things i see it as being past a bolt on
True on the gears. Now on My Progress on mods went like this

best times:
Stock - 13.8
Intake w/tune - 13.5
removed 3.31 gears and installed 4.10's - 13.3
added Under Drive Pullies and DR's - 13.2
Lower Control Arms - 13.1
Added Charge Motion Delete Plates - 12.9
One Peice aluminum Driveshaft and 12.8
added Long tube headers (In conjuction with CMDP more air) 12.41

Most have seen times with a stall (helps with the 60') 3-4 tenths
of course a turbo or supercharger is easier but you put the stock motor at risk
since ford decided not to forge the internals like the V6

these mods on the S197 need a tune :
Intake (other than the K&N)
Charge Motion Delete Plates
Headers
Gears (speedo)
any off road pipe (O2 Sensor)

Axle back Muffers do Nothing for HP or Times, they are for Sound Only..

Last edited by 2k05gt; 06-28-2008 at 05:30 PM.
Old 06-28-2008, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 01ws666
Wow that was alot of info bud, I see there are some fast bolt on gt's in the country just not around me... And unless I see weight reductions lists those numbers dont mean a whole lot... but I dont care that much so no I dont want to see them... And no i'm not going to bother posting the fastest na f-body's list... though someone else can If their feelin like stirrin the pot some more....
The low 12 and high 11 cars have weight reduction like seat deletes K member, radiaator brace, battery relo Ect..
12.3 and up are street trim, I remove the spare, sub and stuff like that

Originally Posted by 01ws666
And until GM comes out with a 5th gen T/A because of the mustang I dont really care...
I too Agree I Love the T/A I owned a 1971 455 I loved that car, I wish the Trans Am was coming back but I doubt it. Even though I own a 2002 SS I bought it because it was a good price, but I would rather have owned a trans am.

Some comments here strike as being a bit bigoted, I mean change the word sI would never drive a mustang
to I would never date a black gril or Asian, or a blond or bunette. how do you know until you try it? I would allow any one here a chance to take my car down the 1320 a few times. I mean it's not as fast as a cammed ls1 or ls2 but it's still fun.

Last edited by 2k05gt; 06-28-2008 at 05:44 PM.
Old 06-28-2008, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarge_13
Its not so much that its sensitive to mods, but the fact that it runs rather rich and "tightens up," if you will, the drive-by-wire throttle system.
True, The Stock Tune is very rich and sluggish. For the automatic the tranny
the tune really picls it up, shifts very hard, I can roast my tires from a launch, scratch 2nd and Bark 3rd. from a 20mph roll I can spin the tires.
and this is a stock tranny. I can change the shift points, pressure speed all from the hand held tunner.

It's fun to test the spark advance at the track as well, depending on he heat I can play with my tune to get the best performace possable.
Old 06-28-2008, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 2k05gt
No Stall Stock Tranny..


N/A means Normally or Naturally Asperated, I know these cars and people some just can not afford to go FI and there are some us that refuse to use Nitrous.



True on the gears. Now on My Progress on mods went like this

best times:
Stock - 13.8
Intake w/tune - 13.5
removed 3.31 gears and installed 4.10's - 13.3
added Under Drive Pullies and DR's - 13.2
Lower Control Arms - 13.1
Added Charge Motion Delete Plates - 12.9
One Peice aluminum Driveshaft and 12.8
added Long tube headers (In conjuction with CMDP more air) 12.41

Most have seen times with a stall (helps with the 60') 3-4 tenths
of course a turbo or supercharger is easier but you put the stock motor at risk
since ford decided not to forge the internals like the V6

these mods on the S197 need a tune :
Intake (other than the K&N)
Charge Motion Delete Plates
Headers
Gears (speedo)
any off road pipe (O2 Sensor)

Axle back Muffers do Nothing for HP or Times, they are for Sound Only..
The only thing that was forged in the 4.0 was the crank.



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