SLP Bilstein $409.99 shipped
02-11-2010, 09:39 PM
#41
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why does everyone love coilovers so much? aren't our fronts technically coilovers to begin with? just because you can adjust ride height doesn't mean it's going to do anything better than a plain old spring/shock setup.
do you honestly think an off the shelf QA1 coilover setup, with shocks valved for ~275-325 in/lb springs, designed specifically for drag racing, is going to out-handle the strano/koni setup? you might do better on an autox track completely stock.
does it make it a waste of money that i put 1 3/4" headers on my car if i'm serious about performance, when the guy who won some championships had 1 7/8" headers on his car? why can't someone put a decent setup on their car instead of the absolute best if they don't have the money?
do you honestly think an off the shelf QA1 coilover setup, with shocks valved for ~275-325 in/lb springs, designed specifically for drag racing, is going to out-handle the strano/koni setup? you might do better on an autox track completely stock.
does it make it a waste of money that i put 1 3/4" headers on my car if i'm serious about performance, when the guy who won some championships had 1 7/8" headers on his car? why can't someone put a decent setup on their car instead of the absolute best if they don't have the money?
As far as coilovers go, it's all about adjustability. To be able to fine tune your suspension to exactly what you need when you need it is a nice feature. But for a street/sport driver like myself, it can be a bit excessive. I am pretty much sold on the slp bilsteins. They will do anything I will ever ask them for. For a product being advertised on this forum, it is taking a beating from it's seller and pushed to the back in favor of another manufacturer that have no need to identify any longer.
Last edited by MisterskeetZ; 02-11-2010 at 09:57 PM.
02-11-2010, 10:02 PM
#42
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Sam,
the HD set clarifies that you need to reuse the spring perch, isolator, dust boot, and bumpstop.
the SLP doesnt' say anything about reusing these. Should it be understood that the SLP needs to reuse the same as the HD's or do the HD's come with an isolators, boots and bumpstops?
the HD set clarifies that you need to reuse the spring perch, isolator, dust boot, and bumpstop.
the SLP doesnt' say anything about reusing these. Should it be understood that the SLP needs to reuse the same as the HD's or do the HD's come with an isolators, boots and bumpstops?
02-11-2010, 10:42 PM
#43
I agree. That last question is the question for the ages. It's just some people will try to steer you in a certain direction so you will buy what they want you to buy.
As far as coilovers go, it's all about adjustability. To be able to fine tune your suspension to exactly what you need when you need it is a nice feature. But for a street/sport driver like myself, it can be a bit excessive. I am pretty much sold on the slp bilsteins. They will do anything I will ever ask them for. For a product being advertised on this forum, it is taking a beating from it's seller and pushed to the back in favor of another manufacturer that have no need to identify any longer.
As far as coilovers go, it's all about adjustability. To be able to fine tune your suspension to exactly what you need when you need it is a nice feature. But for a street/sport driver like myself, it can be a bit excessive. I am pretty much sold on the slp bilsteins. They will do anything I will ever ask them for. For a product being advertised on this forum, it is taking a beating from it's seller and pushed to the back in favor of another manufacturer that have no need to identify any longer.
anyway, from personal experience i've never really seen an issue with how sam describes the SLP bilsteins. they work pretty good for many applications, but the truth is that they're not ideal. i had them for a while and was perfectly content...until i rode in a koni car. long story short, the koni's should be arriving next week. he speaks the truth, and having ridden with both shocks i see no exaggeration in his lectures.
02-12-2010, 07:38 AM
#46
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my understanding of the situation is this:
Sam advertised a good price on the SLP Bilsteins.
Its always been clear they are a good choice for stock springs.
Question came up about the SLP Bilsteins and lowering springs.
Sam made it clear, once again, that SLP Bilsteins are not ideal or designed for lowering springs.
Sam made it clear, once again, that the best shocks for lowering springs are Konis.
From what I've read some people use the Bilsteins with lowering shocks and like it.
Do they hold up long term? - Not sure.
Sam does not like to answer questions with one word answers because its a lot more complicated then that and he wants you to be informed before you make a decision. Especially when you are deciding about less then ideal combinations. One word answers are available at Autozone or PepBoys.
You also have to remember that answers on open forums are not strictly for you only. Some information, which may be more then you "asked for", is for the benefit of all readers.
Sam advertised a good price on the SLP Bilsteins.
Its always been clear they are a good choice for stock springs.
Question came up about the SLP Bilsteins and lowering springs.
Sam made it clear, once again, that SLP Bilsteins are not ideal or designed for lowering springs.
Sam made it clear, once again, that the best shocks for lowering springs are Konis.
From what I've read some people use the Bilsteins with lowering shocks and like it.
Do they hold up long term? - Not sure.
Sam does not like to answer questions with one word answers because its a lot more complicated then that and he wants you to be informed before you make a decision. Especially when you are deciding about less then ideal combinations. One word answers are available at Autozone or PepBoys.
You also have to remember that answers on open forums are not strictly for you only. Some information, which may be more then you "asked for", is for the benefit of all readers.
02-12-2010, 09:38 AM
#47
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Good morning to you sir!
Sam is a salesman. Don't forget that. I know the game. I am done with the whole thing. I have been in a car with konis and I agree that they are great. I am getting feedback outside of this thread that bilsteins have worked perfectly well with a set of lowering springs for daily use. AND they have proven to be durable over time. But this is coming from people with personal experience with the bilsteins and coming from people that aren't going to make a dollar from their persuasion.
I am not flat out accusing anybody of anything, but I smell fish. Stinky fish. I don't like stinky fish.
Sam is a salesman. Don't forget that. I know the game. I am done with the whole thing. I have been in a car with konis and I agree that they are great. I am getting feedback outside of this thread that bilsteins have worked perfectly well with a set of lowering springs for daily use. AND they have proven to be durable over time. But this is coming from people with personal experience with the bilsteins and coming from people that aren't going to make a dollar from their persuasion.
I am not flat out accusing anybody of anything, but I smell fish. Stinky fish. I don't like stinky fish.
02-12-2010, 10:09 AM
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Good morning to you sir!
Sam is a salesman. Don't forget that. I know the game. I am done with the whole thing. I have been in a car with konis and I agree that they are great. I am getting feedback outside of this thread that bilsteins have worked perfectly well with a set of lowering springs for daily use. AND they have proven to be durable over time. But this is coming from people with personal experience with the bilsteins and coming from people that aren't going to make a dollar from their persuasion.
I am not flat out accusing anybody of anything, but I smell fish. Stinky fish. I don't like stinky fish.
Sam is a salesman. Don't forget that. I know the game. I am done with the whole thing. I have been in a car with konis and I agree that they are great. I am getting feedback outside of this thread that bilsteins have worked perfectly well with a set of lowering springs for daily use. AND they have proven to be durable over time. But this is coming from people with personal experience with the bilsteins and coming from people that aren't going to make a dollar from their persuasion.
I am not flat out accusing anybody of anything, but I smell fish. Stinky fish. I don't like stinky fish.
your new and making incorrect judgements about people who are great assets to this community. the setup your looking at may very well work out OK for you. but don't get upset if someone tells you its less then ideal. there is a reason that the Konis get so many endorsements, and most are from people that don't sell anything. I'd be happy if someone told me it was less then ideal before just selling me whatever I thought might work.
02-12-2010, 11:50 AM
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your new and making incorrect judgements about people who are great assets to this community. the setup your looking at may very well work out OK for you. but don't get upset if someone tells you its less then ideal. there is a reason that the Konis get so many endorsements, and most are from people that don't sell anything. I'd be happy if someone told me it was less then ideal before just selling me whatever I thought might work.
I am not upset about what I have heard. I will take it into consideration but wont take it as gospel as many others seem to have done. Sam is considered one of the great assets to the community. I can see where he is coming from. It is the delivery of the knowledge that is less than ideal. Like Sam said himself, he doesn't care what other people think of him. It wouldn't seem so through his words on this thread.
If I can lay this all to rest, let me say that I am still considering the koni struts. Many people have told me that I will simply get what I pay for. This rings true with me. At this time, I cannot afford them. I may just ride with the crappy stock suspension for as long as it takes to save up the cash for the koni struts. It is still something I have to mull over.
I still refuse to take Sam's word as gospel just because other members of the forum worship this guy and he has some shiny trophies with his name at the bottom. I will, however, give it some thought.
A technical question for Sam and any other knowledgeable members of the forum. Why do kyb agx get third place to bilstein slp's? KYB is adjustable so wouldn't they be tunable to get a better ride than bilstein slp's? Or does the range of adjustment not vary enough to get a proper ride quality that the bilsteins do?
02-12-2010, 12:05 PM
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much reading on this subject shows that the adjustment on the AGX adjusts rebound AND compression together, even if you don't want to adjust both.
more importantly, the build quality is not as good and the warranty is rarely upheld.
why would Sam want to try to help you?
more importantly, the build quality is not as good and the warranty is rarely upheld.
why would Sam want to try to help you?
02-12-2010, 01:56 PM
#52
hahah. can't disagree with that. many people follow blindly, but he doesn't take advantage of that. he still tries explain things so that people can make informed decisions on their own. if he wanted to make a TON of sales he could just tell everyone that bilsteins are perfect for everything. i'm sure he'd be able to sell two sets of those for every one set of konis he would have sold otherwise. i was very skeptical at first, but i can't think of any time i've found fault with his recommendations.
02-12-2010, 02:48 PM
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I am getting PMs about this from other members on the forum that have been here far longer than I have. Many years in fact. Through this, it is obvious that not everybody here sees it the way you and various other members do.
I am not upset about what I have heard. I will take it into consideration but wont take it as gospel as many others seem to have done. Sam is considered one of the great assets to the community. I can see where he is coming from. It is the delivery of the knowledge that is less than ideal. Like Sam said himself, he doesn't care what other people think of him. It wouldn't seem so through his words on this thread.
If I can lay this all to rest, let me say that I am still considering the koni struts. Many people have told me that I will simply get what I pay for. This rings true with me. At this time, I cannot afford them. I may just ride with the crappy stock suspension for as long as it takes to save up the cash for the koni struts. It is still something I have to mull over.
I still refuse to take Sam's word as gospel just because other members of the forum worship this guy and he has some shiny trophies with his name at the bottom. I will, however, give it some thought.
A technical question for Sam and any other knowledgeable members of the forum. Why do kyb agx get third place to bilstein slp's? KYB is adjustable so wouldn't they be tunable to get a better ride than bilstein slp's? Or does the range of adjustment not vary enough to get a proper ride quality that the bilsteins do?
I am not upset about what I have heard. I will take it into consideration but wont take it as gospel as many others seem to have done. Sam is considered one of the great assets to the community. I can see where he is coming from. It is the delivery of the knowledge that is less than ideal. Like Sam said himself, he doesn't care what other people think of him. It wouldn't seem so through his words on this thread.
If I can lay this all to rest, let me say that I am still considering the koni struts. Many people have told me that I will simply get what I pay for. This rings true with me. At this time, I cannot afford them. I may just ride with the crappy stock suspension for as long as it takes to save up the cash for the koni struts. It is still something I have to mull over.
I still refuse to take Sam's word as gospel just because other members of the forum worship this guy and he has some shiny trophies with his name at the bottom. I will, however, give it some thought.
A technical question for Sam and any other knowledgeable members of the forum. Why do kyb agx get third place to bilstein slp's? KYB is adjustable so wouldn't they be tunable to get a better ride than bilstein slp's? Or does the range of adjustment not vary enough to get a proper ride quality that the bilsteins do?
You have been on the forum for 1 month, esentially say you don't trust Sam's advice, then proceed to ask him a question about KYB shocks. Good luck with that. I don't see how a thread promoting a sale has turned into this.
02-12-2010, 11:23 PM
#54
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02-13-2010, 04:29 AM
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In a thread that is meant to advertise and hopefully sell bilsteins, koni sports are still being sold as a better product for all road conditions and track. I would hope that wouldn't **** off bilstein. But this is Sam's business we are talking about and he can run it as he sees fit.
"Essentially saying"? No. I am saying what I am saying and nothing more, nothing less. I am one to question things and not accept "truth" as it is told by somebody I have never heard of/met and has yet to earn my trust.
In no way am I disrespecting Sam. But I can see I have seriously ruffled the feathers of his cohorts. I just dare to walk in the face of opposition and think for myself. If that makes me the ignorant guy on the forum, I can live with that.
To the top for Sam! (see..I am helping sell)
"Essentially saying"? No. I am saying what I am saying and nothing more, nothing less. I am one to question things and not accept "truth" as it is told by somebody I have never heard of/met and has yet to earn my trust.
In no way am I disrespecting Sam. But I can see I have seriously ruffled the feathers of his cohorts. I just dare to walk in the face of opposition and think for myself. If that makes me the ignorant guy on the forum, I can live with that.
To the top for Sam! (see..I am helping sell)
02-13-2010, 12:40 PM
#56
The Hotchkis 1904 spring set I wanted just showed up and I haven't committed to the shock selection yet. What Sam said is pretty consistent with everything I've heard here and elsewhere. I sort of resent hearing Koni Koni Koni all the time, too, mostly because they're so damned expensive, but I'm still considering them because they're the last word in shocks for our cars. I have a source in Charlotte, NC that sells KYB AGX for $375.00 shipped. That's my other option. I'd like to spend the minimum difference of $475.00 to buy other things, like upgrade my sway bars to a pair of Hotchkis 2203R/2204F. I may do that. If I get the Konis that might be less important, stockers might be fine with new bushings and a PHB. I didn't ask that question...
I've been well informed about the shock selection at least and now I can make my own decisions about choosing shocks for a 1" drop setup. I know the shortcomings of lesser priced sets. If I try the AGXs and don't like them, I can sell them for $100.00 and be wiser, or wear them out and go Konis next round.
I think Sam made the extra comments for me and another guy who said his closest track was 2 1/2 hours away. We both said we weren't planning on autoX or drag runs, and Sam offered the thought that most guys like me think about what we don't want to do with our setup and see where that thought process takes us. Instead, we might ought to try to visualize what we DO want from our setups. I think me and the other guy just wanted something nicer than stock without spending over $1000.00 on springs and shocks.
For the 4th gen, there aren't a whole lot of good options. There are arguably fewer that 10 manufacturers that make a worthy product that will last. Lots of mfrs will make something they can sell to us, but they're not an ideal product due to manufacturing or warranty issues and we might find ourselves on a product search again a lot sooner than we thought we would.
So I'm not going to autoX but at least once a month I have to make a hard evasive maneuver around some shitbag that blunders into my path yakking on a cell phone. My '03 Accord does that 3x better than my 'bird in its current state. Even a car that's not a DD can wind up in a salvage yard in DD conditions, especially on weekends where other drivers are more distracted than usual.
So thanks, Sam, for making me think about what I DO want from my setup instead of listing reasons I don't need an $800.00 shock setup. I still would love to have those Konis for around $600.00 but it is what it is. And it's tax refund season...
I've been well informed about the shock selection at least and now I can make my own decisions about choosing shocks for a 1" drop setup. I know the shortcomings of lesser priced sets. If I try the AGXs and don't like them, I can sell them for $100.00 and be wiser, or wear them out and go Konis next round.
I think Sam made the extra comments for me and another guy who said his closest track was 2 1/2 hours away. We both said we weren't planning on autoX or drag runs, and Sam offered the thought that most guys like me think about what we don't want to do with our setup and see where that thought process takes us. Instead, we might ought to try to visualize what we DO want from our setups. I think me and the other guy just wanted something nicer than stock without spending over $1000.00 on springs and shocks.
For the 4th gen, there aren't a whole lot of good options. There are arguably fewer that 10 manufacturers that make a worthy product that will last. Lots of mfrs will make something they can sell to us, but they're not an ideal product due to manufacturing or warranty issues and we might find ourselves on a product search again a lot sooner than we thought we would.
So I'm not going to autoX but at least once a month I have to make a hard evasive maneuver around some shitbag that blunders into my path yakking on a cell phone. My '03 Accord does that 3x better than my 'bird in its current state. Even a car that's not a DD can wind up in a salvage yard in DD conditions, especially on weekends where other drivers are more distracted than usual.
So thanks, Sam, for making me think about what I DO want from my setup instead of listing reasons I don't need an $800.00 shock setup. I still would love to have those Konis for around $600.00 but it is what it is. And it's tax refund season...
02-13-2010, 01:52 PM
#57
The Hotchkis 1904 spring set I wanted just showed up and I haven't committed to the shock selection yet. What Sam said is pretty consistent with everything I've heard here and elsewhere. I sort of resent hearing Koni Koni Koni all the time, too, mostly because they're so damned expensive, but I'm still considering them because they're the last word in shocks for our cars. I have a source in Charlotte, NC that sells KYB AGX for $375.00 shipped. That's my other option. I'd like to spend the minimum difference of $475.00 to buy other things, like upgrade my sway bars to a pair of Hotchkis 2203R/2204F. I may do that. If I get the Konis that might be less important, stockers might be fine with new bushings and a PHB. I didn't ask that question...
I've been well informed about the shock selection at least and now I can make my own decisions about choosing shocks for a 1" drop setup. I know the shortcomings of lesser priced sets. If I try the AGXs and don't like them, I can sell them for $100.00 and be wiser, or wear them out and go Konis next round.
I think Sam made the extra comments for me and another guy who said his closest track was 2 1/2 hours away. We both said we weren't planning on autoX or drag runs, and Sam offered the thought that most guys like me think about what we don't want to do with our setup and see where that thought process takes us. Instead, we might ought to try to visualize what we DO want from our setups. I think me and the other guy just wanted something nicer than stock without spending over $1000.00 on springs and shocks.
For the 4th gen, there aren't a whole lot of good options. There are arguably fewer that 10 manufacturers that make a worthy product that will last. Lots of mfrs will make something they can sell to us, but they're not an ideal product due to manufacturing or warranty issues and we might find ourselves on a product search again a lot sooner than we thought we would.
So I'm not going to autoX but at least once a month I have to make a hard evasive maneuver around some shitbag that blunders into my path yakking on a cell phone. My '03 Accord does that 3x better than my 'bird in its current state. Even a car that's not a DD can wind up in a salvage yard in DD conditions, especially on weekends where other drivers are more distracted than usual.
So thanks, Sam, for making me think about what I DO want from my setup instead of listing reasons I don't need an $800.00 shock setup. I still would love to have those Konis for around $600.00 but it is what it is. And it's tax refund season...
I've been well informed about the shock selection at least and now I can make my own decisions about choosing shocks for a 1" drop setup. I know the shortcomings of lesser priced sets. If I try the AGXs and don't like them, I can sell them for $100.00 and be wiser, or wear them out and go Konis next round.
I think Sam made the extra comments for me and another guy who said his closest track was 2 1/2 hours away. We both said we weren't planning on autoX or drag runs, and Sam offered the thought that most guys like me think about what we don't want to do with our setup and see where that thought process takes us. Instead, we might ought to try to visualize what we DO want from our setups. I think me and the other guy just wanted something nicer than stock without spending over $1000.00 on springs and shocks.
For the 4th gen, there aren't a whole lot of good options. There are arguably fewer that 10 manufacturers that make a worthy product that will last. Lots of mfrs will make something they can sell to us, but they're not an ideal product due to manufacturing or warranty issues and we might find ourselves on a product search again a lot sooner than we thought we would.
So I'm not going to autoX but at least once a month I have to make a hard evasive maneuver around some shitbag that blunders into my path yakking on a cell phone. My '03 Accord does that 3x better than my 'bird in its current state. Even a car that's not a DD can wind up in a salvage yard in DD conditions, especially on weekends where other drivers are more distracted than usual.
So thanks, Sam, for making me think about what I DO want from my setup instead of listing reasons I don't need an $800.00 shock setup. I still would love to have those Konis for around $600.00 but it is what it is. And it's tax refund season...
koni 4/3's ($750) and strano springs ($275) puts you right around your $1000.00 mark. You should seriously consider it.
02-13-2010, 07:52 PM
#58
I'm on record in this forum for preferring Bilsteins to Konis because of ride - on stock springs. I've had both and can say that the Konis control the springs much better in certain situations - like deep dips.
Sam isn't blowing smoke or trying to make the big sale. He's trying to tell you guys that if you seriously increase the spring rate, you're going to need a shock that can control it. There's only one shock that can do that on our cars - Konis.
Will Bilsteins work okay with lowering springs in most driving situations? Sure. But there will be times when you will wish you had better control. At that point, you'll be saying, "shoulda got the Konis."
Sam isn't blowing smoke or trying to make the big sale. He's trying to tell you guys that if you seriously increase the spring rate, you're going to need a shock that can control it. There's only one shock that can do that on our cars - Konis.
Will Bilsteins work okay with lowering springs in most driving situations? Sure. But there will be times when you will wish you had better control. At that point, you'll be saying, "shoulda got the Konis."
02-13-2010, 08:42 PM
#59
In a thread that is meant to advertise and hopefully sell bilsteins, koni sports are still being sold as a better product for all road conditions and track. I would hope that wouldn't **** off bilstein. But this is Sam's business we are talking about and he can run it as he sees fit.
"Essentially saying"? No. I am saying what I am saying and nothing more, nothing less. I am one to question things and not accept "truth" as it is told by somebody I have never heard of/met and has yet to earn my trust.
In no way am I disrespecting Sam. But I can see I have seriously ruffled the feathers of his cohorts. I just dare to walk in the face of opposition and think for myself. If that makes me the ignorant guy on the forum, I can live with that.
To the top for Sam! (see..I am helping sell)
"Essentially saying"? No. I am saying what I am saying and nothing more, nothing less. I am one to question things and not accept "truth" as it is told by somebody I have never heard of/met and has yet to earn my trust.
In no way am I disrespecting Sam. But I can see I have seriously ruffled the feathers of his cohorts. I just dare to walk in the face of opposition and think for myself. If that makes me the ignorant guy on the forum, I can live with that.
To the top for Sam! (see..I am helping sell)
02-14-2010, 02:08 AM
#60
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I still refuse to take Sam's word as gospel just because other members of the forum worship this guy and he has some shiny trophies with his name at the bottom. I will, however, give it some thought.
I am not flat out accusing anybody of anything, but I smell fish. Stinky fish. I don't like stinky fish.
@MisterskeetZ
You have proven here...
...that you don't have much experience with suspension setups.
..that you need advice on the selection of the best parts for the (very) limited budget that you have.
Here you got advice from someone who knows his stuff. Maybe, you don't like his personal style, but what have you to offer to justify your scathing criticism.
No knowledge.
No experience.
No or not much money (so your first shot must be a direct hit, because you have no budget for a second try).
You should say "Thank you", for every good advice you get!
That one about good results with bilsteins paired with lowering springs is great:
But this is coming from people with personal experience with the bilsteins and coming from people that aren't going to make a dollar from their persuasion.
When I bought my Camaro, I wanted to cure the floaty feeling...
Some boys here recommended subframe-connectors... Sam disagreed!
I bought them and was disappointed (but they are great for lifting the car).
Some boys here recommended a strut tower brace... Sam disagreed!
I bought it and was disappointed (but it is a great handle for cleaning the engine bay).
Some boys recommended trailing arms with poly bushings... Sam disagreed!
I bought them and was disappointed (but thea are looking great now, hanging on the walls of my garage).
Some boys recommended trailing arms with a poly/rod combo... Sam said something like "not bad but not necessary!"
I bought them... they were o.k., but were getting louder and louder.
Some boys here recommended the Bilstein Tuned Suspension Kit... Sam said "Not a good combination of springs and dampers!"
I bought it... and the rear end was hopping around like a rabbit on dope... Oh my god!
Than I bought my Vette and I wanted to stop my experiments wit the Camaro... so I read a lot about the things that Sam Strano recommends...
I used stock trailing arms with new reinforced aftermarket bushings... Works great, quiet and stiff.
I combined the Bilstein shocks from the Bilstein kit with the stock springs... Works even better.
I bought a UMI poly/rod-Panhard-Bar... A little bit more control on twisty roads and still quiet.
Now the Camaro is my "Let's make a funny 1000miles trip to southern Italy"-car. Not a racer but a fun to drive.
And now the big bang:
Sam Strano never earned a dollar with me! All the info I needed to get it right, was given by him for free on this board.
Thank you, Sam!
Holger, from Germany
P.S.: Next time the dentist tells me: "You can get an ceramic inlay for your tooth for 500USD. That a is very reliable option. But for twice the money you can get a gold inlay, which will be even better..."
I will respond: "I smell fish... stinky fish! And I don't like stinky fish!"
