Gojira94

iTrader: (4)

Ok, I'm more or less sold on the Koni 4/3s, maybe even go for the 4/4s so I can adjust the rears on the car getting it dialed in to where I like it best (and can stiffen it when/if I want to). Nothing else on this car has been a shortcut. I didn't give much forethought to the cost of this phase of the project, but it is what it is.

Thanks Pro_built7 for the testimony on your AGXs. Can you give me an example of something specific it does or doesn't do under certain conditions/maneuvers? I'm curious what shortcoming you found with it that makes them so objectionable. I can't wait to see how the Konis compliment these Hotchkis springs...

MisterskeetZ

The post about the agx was helpful indeed.

Now a post from personal experience. Wouldn't any of Sam's posts be from personal experience? If this guy from Germany has a friend that spoke of a stock suspension being the best ever, that would be their personal experience as well. This proves my point that you can't go believe just anything some guy tells you. As of now, I have heard from plenty of sources that the slp bilsteins with bmr's/stranos/hotchkis are just fine. In the end, it's about 50/50 konis/bilstein with sprinkles of people saying agx work just fine as well.

Time to shop for some bilstein slp's.

JD_AMG

It seems like you still don't "get it."
Its not like Sam has only tried one setup, and then coincidentally won national champions with it. He uses that setup because he has tried many (probably almost all) other setups and has built his using that knowledge.
EDIT: Oh and I do want to add one thing, do you see ANY other sponsor on here actually tell you why you should go with product X over their product? Do (or can) any of them explain why they feel theirs are better? How a shock actually works? How many of them win races in their cars?
All I see is the auto-answering machine:
"Hello please consider our product, thanks!"

Exactly, that's why I will trust the guys that have raced these cars, tried numerous different setups, and have actually custom valved the shocks before, instead of trusting the guys that try one setup and say its "ok."

It wont be the end of the world if you put on some bilstiens, but you may not like the results, especially after they get worn out. People on here are just trying to help. I'm sure you have the mind set like some other do of the "I don't need konis etc", but can you tell me you need 345hp? Why not settle for a 260hp Mustang GT, you'd be saving some money right? Its still a RWD muscle car just like yours, whats the big difference anyway?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

So let me see if I have this correct? There is more than one person here who is somehow pissed at me for explaining my view and answering questions in a thread I started? Well, I guess that's fine, others have made some very good points, and frankly I don't feel I need to add much here. Except:

I am the one who started this thread. If I have some underlying conspiracy to not sell you Bilstein then why exactly you do you think I posted that we have those shocks on sale for a pretty good delivered price too? I'm confused, greatly. I guess I can't have an opinion, or at least one that differs from the know-it-alls that are so pervasive on the internet.

Yes I have some shiny trophies. And some nice jackets, and a lot of Hoosier tires and some money too. But more than that, where you all are concerned is I have experience (prove by those shiny things), and a conscience to make sure that my customers have the more appropriate part for their needs. You don't like that in a shop? I'm not your guy then.....

The other thing is this: I sell more variety of part brands than most anyone else so folks know I'm not making a recommendation based on what I think would be best for THEIR NEEDS. If you call around to most other vendors, you'll find real fast, they don't offer much in the way of choice or options, and personally I think that will skew their recommendations. I try to cover all my bases. I can't carry every part known to man, but I try and cover a big range of parts I feel are necessary and useful.

I'm more than a little disheartened to have learned that my honesty has, yet again, garnered ill-will. It's truly sad when folks who've I've never even spoken to draw all these conclusions as to my reasoning and that I must be up to something with no basis on which to build such thinking. You know, if I had terrible prices on Bilstein then *MAYBE* I could see you guys thinking I was up to something by mentioning Koni... but alas that's not true either.

MisterskeetZ

Okay..I would like to know just what kyb agx struts are good for then. Thy must have some kind of application. Same as with the tokico hp's. What are they good for? There are so many manufacturers out there and all I seem to see is a push for konis for those that "care about suspension".

I am more than willing to buy from you Sam. You have good prices. Perhaps it was my fault for only seeing a push to buy konis? I don't know how I might have gotten that idea.

I am not looking to earn trophies of my own but, as you have mentioned before, that isn't the only thing the konis do for people. They also provide the best ride around the city. This IS what you are saying right? Next best bet is bilstein slp but they are not really recommended by you because they just don't seem to get the job done the way it should. Anything else you sell beyond that just doesn't belong on our cars? If not, could you explain which situations they DO fit?

I would like to weigh ALL my options. Some selling points for other manufacturers would be appreciated to help me with my purchase.

auxout

I don't post here often, hardly ever, but I've been reading Sam's posts for years now and have learned more from a handful of his posts than 100s of other posts. I really don't get the hate. Just came to check the board to see if Bilstein was still the best choice for me, looks that way. I have Bilstein HDs on my car now just a DD, stock springs. They are tired and it just seems like they don't soak up anything anymore. Which I'm assuming is normal after 70 or 80k miles?

Looks like I'll be placing an order tommorow

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

Okay..I would like to know just what kyb agx struts are good for then. Thy must have some kind of application. Same as with the tokico hp's. What are they good for? There are so many manufacturers out there and all I seem to see is a push for konis for those that "care about suspension".(end quote)

The AGX are fine for stock spring rates. when you increase springrate they tend to wear quickly. It's not just a fbody thing either. Miata guys have worn them out in short order. In regards to Tokico blues- Flyin Miata calls them "craptastic"-it isn't just Sam.

wannafbody

iTrader: (2)

Bilstein makes a great shock when they get the valving right. Unfortunately in many cases they miss the mark entirely.

MisterskeetZ

I heard about tokico hp. I had an eclipse awd trubo and was planning to go with konis, tokico illumina or a full coilover setup. I won't touch hp's. Are bilstein slp's hit and miss from set to set? Only 90 day warranty on those as well?

99FormulaM6r

iTrader: (2)

The KYB AGX shocks are adjustable, Bilsteins are not. The AGX's aren't quite as good of quality as the Bilsteins, but you have the option to adjust your shocks. Koni's are the best quality AND are adjustable, thus cost more than the others.

The Koni's are the best shocks out of those, but the Bilsteins and AGX's are "good for" people who want to upgrade their shocks but save some money. If you still want an upgrade and save a couple hundred dollars, the Bilsteins/AGX's fit the bil, but if you buy the Koni's you'll have a better shock that will last longer, and is also better at handling different types of springs.

I'm not a suspension expert, but this is what I've gathered from doing my own reading on this site.

Danny2tek

iTrader: (1)

Sam you think you have enough sets to hold until Friday?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I've got on set left in stock right now, but am ordering more. ...

Danny2tek

iTrader: (1)

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

"You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time."

Furthermore, when you've got a beer budget; you buy beer!

Pro_built7

iTrader: (9)

Well, it's sort of hard to explain.
Now mind you I have strano springs--
they ride sharp and harsh. Living in MI which has some of the worst roads I'll hit a pothole or bump and the car will Jar and bang and bounce, it doesn't feel cushioned or confident.
sometimes (often) I'll feel a reverberating bounce from them not being able to dampen the springs.

I feel like I'm in a lowered honda civic sometimes.

It doesn't corner that well and they genuinely are not impressive. I find them to be a direct replacement to stock except for adjustablity and harsher ride.

Don't waste your money on AGX's- despite what others say (no offense to agx owners).
I'm not sure how koni's will do with hotchkis springs- thats a strano question.

Gojira94

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Pro_built7, just the sort of thing I was looking to hear. I've ridden in a lowered Civic and it's the worst...

The Strano springs I would guess are not far off from Hotchkis (285-525F/100-140R), and they're .2 more drop. So I'd guess I'd have almost the same experience you've had with the AGXs. Thanks for sparing me the expense.

Sam, how do the Hotchkis 1904s compare to the SP141s (with Koni 4/4s, that is)? I chose the 1904s because of the miminal 1" drop and pretty consistent acclaim of other forum members over the last 3 years. How do you like them? If they're a close second to yours, I might be able to live with that.

Thanks,

Rob

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The AGX's ride much less pleasantly than the Koni's do (or even the Bilstein's). Lowering springs in general firm the ride up, but the harshness that's the dominion of the shocks much more so than the springs (assuming the springs don't completely suck).

Hotchkis springs are one of the brands I sell (I don't just sell my own like some places do). However, I don't use the 1904, but use 1905's on all cars. If you notice the rates at the same, just a little difference in height, which is really of no matter since the LT1 and LS1 cars really don't weigh anything tangibly different anyway....

I have had some folks switch from Hothckis to my springs and report a firmer ride overall, but better over the quick hits. Presumably that's because the Hothkis rates are kind of soft for the drop (they only get to 525 @ max compression). And they don't gain rate fast enough to keep the car from really pounding down onto the bumpstop. So it's a situation where they will "ride" better because of softer wheel rates. But when you need more wheel rate to support the car and not just smash down on the stops (say undulating roads, or driving hard, or both) then mine are better.

Koni's work great with any springs (within reason) because of the huge range of adjustment and the fact the shock isn't cheap and does not use a cheap piston or adjustment mechanism.

Bilstein and Koni are hugely superior in quality to AGX. Both will ride better than AGX's too. Bilstein's are not adjustable, Koni's are. AGX's are, but equating AGX adjustment to a Koni is like equating a Hypertech power programmer's tune to a true dyno tune of your car done on HP Tuners or LS1 Edit....

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Dude what the hell is your problem?? You go on pissing and moaning for 2 pages about bullshit and the man answered your dumb question right after you asked it. He says the SLPs were made for Eibachs, the handling package that came from SLP on some optioned SSs. OK, go back to pissing and moaning

MisterskeetZ

Didn't know you liked him so much. Take it easy buddy. This had nothing to do with you. Just breathe and move on to the next thread.

Sam...can you update the thread once you get your next shipment of bilsteins in? I understand quantity is low. Thanks.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I could give a **** about road course handling but even I know Sam is very well respected in this community and you and a few others come in and try to run him out of his own thread. Pretty shitty I would say, and I have seen quite a bit since joining here.