libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Anyone here running Hotchkis Sways?

If so, how do they compare to the 35mm/22mm Stranos (I am not interested in price discussions, just performance)? Both are hollow.

Which Hotchkis size matchup is better and why? (apart from the obvious benefits of an adjustable vs. not):
A. 36.5125mm Front & 25.4mm Rear
B. 36.5125mm Front & 23.8125 mm Rear adjustable

Any issues with either rear and Watts Link clearance?

TIA!

There's the beef:
http://xse.com/leres/ss/swaybars.html

pewter2002

iTrader: (4)

I've got the Strano sways and Watts link and there are no interference issues or compatability issues. However, the Strano adj hollow rear bar may be better with the Watts for ultimate tunability - ask Sam @ the benefits. That particular bar was not available from him when I ordered the Watts although I have NO regrets about my current setup!!! I think wall thickness of hollow bars also influences the stiffness of the bar as well as the properties of the metal itself. Also, it is generally agreed that the rear bar from Hotchkis is TOO big for the size of front bar -too much oversteer at the limit, not the best balance. Balance is the key here! Hotchkis is good quality stuff though.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Just performance? Ok... my bars win championships....

I sell Hotchkis if that's what you decide on, no sweat off my nose--got you covered either way. I think it'd be silly to go that way, spend more money and end up with a rear bar in particular that isn't as good a fit/match to the Watts link as my adjustable 22mm (specifically designed for easy installation with a Fays2, but also works fine with a PHB).

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Sam, I have to imagine at some point you installed the Hotchkis sways to test them out in your competition evaluation, no? I hear a lot of folks looking for a bigger than 35mm front sway, and in your opinion, do either of these rear sway sizes match up better to their front? I thought the larger rear size IS ok with a bigger front?!

I know it might be awkward talking up another vendor's sways that compete with your own, but I would also hope you are open minded enough to have evaluated theirs, and give some objective analysis.

Also, has anyone actually tested the Watts Link with the Hotchkis rear adjustable or non adj.? If so, what are the specific issues?

Thanks

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

It depends on what your planning to do with the car. The 25mm bar is generally more geared toward a drag racing size while the 23 seems like it matches out the balance for turning purposes. If I had to choose the two, I'd go with the adjustable over he bigger non adjustable bar. The adjustable could probably accomplish the same thing as the non adjustable if you set it on a higher hole.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Seriously, there's not much to it. A bar has a thickness. If it's hollow then theres some equation out there that will help you determine how stiff it actually is compared to a solid. After that.. it's all up to the driver how they want to tune the car. If you want a stiffer front or rear swaybar, go for the Hotchkis.

There's other little factors in there too, like fitment for example. Not all bars are molded the same way. Some actually could have clearance or fitment issues.

You want open minded-ness and objective analysis? I just gave you something to start off with

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Yes, I have run Hotchkis bars. If I liked the Hotchkis bar combination I would just use the Hotchkis bar combination--I don't make many parts, most of what I do are other parts I'm happy with. I only commission part for myself when I feel I can do a better job. Here, I felt I could do a better job--and for a better price too.

I know you think you should get every answer you desire and have it fit your thinking. I am objective, see the above statement about making my own parts. Trouble is you don't think I am and want some sort of proof of it. Here's the proof. If I didn't feel my stuff was better--do you think I'd run it on my car in competition? I'm not out to lose, that's not good for business. I'm also well past the days of publicly laying every card I hold on the table for all to see. Been burned and won't do it anymore.

Again, I'll say that I sell Hotchkis bars. If you decide that's where you want to go knowing they cost significantly more and that their rear bar is not as easy to install with a watts link, and has non-adjustable for pre-load endlinks then that's fine with me. That's why I carry other brands and am not trying to hold you hostage and force you to run only my bars.

If you want to run a Hotchkis front, then I would recommend their adjustable rear (which is smaller than the standard rear) as the best match. The balance is very similar to my bars for a good bit more money. Yes they are stiffer (by a very small amount). But with the sizes I use bushings are more plentiful, tubing is easier to get, the sizes are what I prefer. Also you can now use the UMI billet mounts if you like on the front bar, and if you have a non-adjustable for the rear as well. The UMI mounts will NOT work on my adjustable rear as we use different brackets to help with the Watts link mounting.

tillery

iTrader: (4)

Alot I have on my car is way over kill for a DD. For most people anyway. But Im not the normal driver on the street. I dont street race either. But after anyone with a F body rides in my car they instantly can tell the differance in the total package. I too asked Sam about the difference in these two bars. And researched other forums before Buying his. The main thing is his combo flat out works!! I used to have a 35mm BMR solid on the front and a other brand on rear with QA1s. The stock setup was better than this. I am looking at Hotckins for my truck tho and Bilstien shocks. Ive run Hotckins products on a 2nd gen and was satified. But as said mainy times in this thread not a good balance.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

I've got the Hotchkis front bar which I've had on my car since 2000, and I have the Hotchkis Adjustable rear bar. I run the rear bar on the middle setting and that works great with my watts-link, the only complaint is the boots on the end-links cracking and tearing within a couple of months. I got new links under warranty with no problems, but the other set did the same so I replaced the bottom half of the Hotchkis rear links with rod-ends.
FYI, the only reason I didn't get Strano's rear adjustable bar at the time is because he didn't have a hollow adjustable rear bar then.
I have no experience with Strano swaybars but Sam doesn't put his name on a product unless it a quality piece ,and his prices for his hollow bars are a very good deal, plus his bar sizes are more optimizes for are cars.
Don't get me wrong, the Hotchkis bars are good, but not better than Sams.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

So would a Strano rear adjustable 22mm be a better match to the Hotchkis ~36.5mm Front?

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Maybe? Depends on if you want a slightly smaller rear bar to match the slightly bigger front bar. Depends on what you do with the car. What's better for you? What's the best flat washer?

Currently I have a 35mm strano front with a 19mm stock rear bar. I wanted something slightly softer than my previous 22mm rear bar to allow a little more give around the turns at Seekonk Speedway. I also did it at the same time as I put in my fresh brand new rear tires.. so I can't do a direct comparison, but it seems to work pretty well for me as far as keeping my rear more controllable and I've spun out less lately.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Which part is cracking, the part that connects to the bar? So it is metal that was cracking? How long ago did this happen, maybe the issue has been addressed by now...



I can't see how you can compare Strano sways to Hotchkis, when you have not run both...

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

He said "so I replaced the bottom half of the Hotchkis rear links with rod-ends", I'm assuming it was part that connects to the swaybar ends.

I'm assuming he said that in comparing the fact that the package as a whole holds up better than Hotchkis. Sometimes people can be somewhat knowledgable about things they've never compared personally by simply researching and doing their homework. I think that's where he's coming from. Just trying to help you out on your uber self proclaimed search for objective analysis

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

In the photo you can't see the rubber ball joint like boot that's on the other side of the bar, but that's the part that cracks(the boot). This happened about 9 months ago.
As far as comparing the Strano's to the Hotchkis I've had a very good look(from under the car) at the Stranos Bars mounted on a car of a friend of mine, and the fact I've heard only good things about his bars.
Yeah, you could call my comparison invalid, but that's for you to decide.


Good luck with your choice!

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

I am pretty much set on a rear adjustable for flexibility, and I noticed adjustable front bars for 5th Gen Camaros -- surprised nobody is making them for 4th Gens -- YET.

I was hoping to get a little input about what you noticed on the Hotchkis vs your own bars. In particular, I am interested in the set with rear adjustable on both. So I wonder if you tried the Hotchkis set with their adjustable (notable since it is a smaller size than their standard rear bar and better matched, as you say).

If I had to read between the lines, I think you are saying the cost/benefit analysis has your adj. set to your favor. I would also think you get better margins on your signature set.

As for the laying the cards out comment -- I'm not exactly sure where you're going with it, but maybe you can fill me in on my next call, hopefully to order, or more likely first for installing my Konis...

Are you saying there is a challenge with the Watts and the Hotchkis rear or rear adj., or both?

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Let's stop you for one second before you go any further and answer this one question for me...

"What do you do with your car or plan to eventually do with your car? Daily drive? Autox? 1/4 mile? Road race? Drive like an @sshole on the street?"

lees02WS6

iTrader: (5)

"Drive like an @sshole on the street?" I'd love to know the answer to this one. Is there a suspension package for that?

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I'd have recommendations for that

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Apparently, you have all the answers so why ask the questions?

You pick and pick and pick, and no matter what I tell you there is always more coming, it's a 4 year old wanting to know what happens when you die!

Front bars are not easy or cheap to make adjustable, it can be done, I've messed with it a little--but it's a hassle and frankly I don't think necessary because I've got my setup pretty tuned in and well balanced--and an adjustable rear bar seems to give enough range to suit most everyone.

I don't see what margins have to do with this--it's not like my pricing on Hotchkis is way out of whack (if it was then you might have a case). And I think I was pretty clear about the installation with a Watts link. Hotchkis doesn't cater to that, I do.

I don't know what you want me to tell you dude. No matter what I say it's always more questions, and frankly I don't have time to continually chase my tail. Yes, I believe that the Hotchkis standard rear bar is way too big, and the front is as well (it's also heavier than mine is). I do think their adjustable set is decently balanced with the rear @ full soft, but I also think the rear bar has a cheesy endlink setup that puts a lot of stress on the bushings (see the comment about them cracking in short order) as they are best used in a vertical setup, angling them puts stress on one side and can cause premature failure.

2000Z28M6

iTrader: (13)

Sounds like it's time you invested some time in trying to understand how sway bars interact with each other.

Few last tid bits, everyone has specific driving styles, what may work for him my not work for you.

Also, remember the 35/22 bars were probably optimized with 315 R compound all around.

That comes into play too....

Good luck either way.