stock sway bars 32 and 19 mm
04-27-2011, 02:07 PM
#5
There is a lot of misinformaton and misunderstanding about bars.
Most V-8 4th gen's got 19mm's. Very few got 21's (1993 only 1LE's and 01-02 "1LE"'s that were SLP built not GM, and any car with an SLP option Bilstien Ultra Suspension). the '93 1LE had a 32, the others had 35mm front bars.
All other V-8 4th gens have 19mm rear bars. 30mm for Z28/Formula's, 32 for SS/WS6's.
You should not add a larger than stock rear bar, if you care about handling and balance without a larger front too. 30/19 is already too soft in front vs. the rear. 32/19 is a good match, just not the roll stiffness most want (which is why I run 35/22 as it's a similar balance with a lot more roll control). 32/25 is not a good driving setup, it will make the car much more prone to oversteer. If you are hellbent on a bigger rear bar, then please at least stay around 21-22mm.
Most V-8 4th gen's got 19mm's. Very few got 21's (1993 only 1LE's and 01-02 "1LE"'s that were SLP built not GM, and any car with an SLP option Bilstien Ultra Suspension). the '93 1LE had a 32, the others had 35mm front bars.
All other V-8 4th gens have 19mm rear bars. 30mm for Z28/Formula's, 32 for SS/WS6's.
You should not add a larger than stock rear bar, if you care about handling and balance without a larger front too. 30/19 is already too soft in front vs. the rear. 32/19 is a good match, just not the roll stiffness most want (which is why I run 35/22 as it's a similar balance with a lot more roll control). 32/25 is not a good driving setup, it will make the car much more prone to oversteer. If you are hellbent on a bigger rear bar, then please at least stay around 21-22mm.
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04-27-2011, 05:52 PM
#7
It was twitchy with 35mm hollow front and the 19mm solid rear and not twitchy after the 22mm hollow rear?
I have the 35mm/22mm combo as well and I agree that it seems well balanced. I just don't get why it would be twitchy with a somewhat softer rear bar. I suppose I don't get what you mean by twitchy.
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04-27-2011, 05:54 PM
#8
I think it's a classic case of meaning different things. I think he meant that before the rear was kind of lazy and ponderous vs. the front with the 35mm bar and that it wallowed around which might be what he means by twitchy.
I think of "twitchy" as loose, nervous, wanting to spin and too *much* rear bar will do that do you, not too little. But like most things there is a happy middle ground where you get good balance and feel both.
I think of "twitchy" as loose, nervous, wanting to spin and too *much* rear bar will do that do you, not too little. But like most things there is a happy middle ground where you get good balance and feel both.
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04-27-2011, 07:08 PM
#9
I think it's a classic case of meaning different things. I think he meant that before the rear was kind of lazy and ponderous vs. the front with the 35mm bar and that it wallowed around which might be what he means by twitchy.
I think of "twitchy" as loose, nervous, wanting to spin and too *much* rear bar will do that do you, not too little. But like most things there is a happy middle ground where you get good balance and feel both.
I think of "twitchy" as loose, nervous, wanting to spin and too *much* rear bar will do that do you, not too little. But like most things there is a happy middle ground where you get good balance and feel both.
04-28-2011, 12:58 PM
#11
I actually ran a 1LE 32mm hollow front with the 15mm solid rear bar on my 2000 V6. You can get away with that because of the difference in balance between the front and rear springs on the V6 compared to the V8.
98+ V8: 292lb/in front, 114lb/in rear
98+ V6: 257lb/in front, 114lb/in rear
Same rear springs, softer front springs on the V6...
Really I think the 32 hollow / 17 solid (from 93-97 V6) might be slightly better than what I ran on the V6. Perhaps splitting hairs, but you can get away with a large bar on the front without getting "massive" understeer partly because improved camber control partly offsets the understeer tendency anyway. Back to the V6 setup, a fair number of people run 32/19 mainly because of the V8 parts must always be better mentality, although I am not convinced that is ideal for the stock rates. At least it isn't 32mm hollow / 21mm solid on the V6 which is worse than on the V8s IMO.
04-28-2011, 04:32 PM
#12
^ So far I am happy with the sway performance improvement since swapping from the 28/15 to 32/19 on my RS... YMMV.
For the record, I did experiment with 32/15 for a while, but the front felt good and was overly happy pulling into turns with the rear feeling like it wanted to then slingshot into the turn, like a delayed reaction -- certainly not balanced. Might be interesting to try the 17 in the rear, however.
For the record, I did experiment with 32/15 for a while, but the front felt good and was overly happy pulling into turns with the rear feeling like it wanted to then slingshot into the turn, like a delayed reaction -- certainly not balanced. Might be interesting to try the 17 in the rear, however.
Last edited by libertyforall1776; 04-28-2011 at 04:49 PM. Reason: added detail
04-28-2011, 06:57 PM
#13
Interesting.
I also ran Bilstein HD's on the V6 with the 32mm / 15mm setup. I don't really recall anything like that, in fact I think it was almost as balanced as the Formula is now, just with less roll resistance due to the smaller bars and less spring rate. This was with a "symmetric" set of wheels and tires front to back.
I also ran Bilstein HD's on the V6 with the 32mm / 15mm setup. I don't really recall anything like that, in fact I think it was almost as balanced as the Formula is now, just with less roll resistance due to the smaller bars and less spring rate. This was with a "symmetric" set of wheels and tires front to back.
04-28-2011, 07:14 PM
#14
By rule, CMC only allows the use of sway bars that came with the car. In the 4th gen's case, any sway bar that came from the dealer is legal.
So because we are limited on sway bar choices, we have to run what some consider insane spring rates.
For the last couple years I've been running a 750lb front spring and a 250lb rear spring with a 32mm front bar. I exchange the rear with a 19 or 21 depending upon the track scheduled for a particular race.
MSR-C is a smooth track, lots of mid or slow speed turns, with a LOT of off camber turns. I will install the 21mm rear to help the car rotate mid corner (on throttle) off.
TWS is a lot rougher, but most turns are on camber or flat and carry a LOT of speed. I'll go back to the 19 to help settle the rear.
I finally ran across an unobtainable 35mm SLP front bar. I installed it and ran MSR-C. And as I figured, the car had a mid-corner off push.
I installed 275 rear springs and it helped, but still had a push. I removed the 1/4" wheel spacer off the rear and went to a 1/8" ... helped more, but still not enough. So, I had to drive through it.
I now have a set of 300lb rear springs to try.
Even though I've done it a hundred times, it still amazes me how much difference a single change can make and the domino effect and work it takes to bring everything back to neutral.
So because we are limited on sway bar choices, we have to run what some consider insane spring rates.
For the last couple years I've been running a 750lb front spring and a 250lb rear spring with a 32mm front bar. I exchange the rear with a 19 or 21 depending upon the track scheduled for a particular race.
MSR-C is a smooth track, lots of mid or slow speed turns, with a LOT of off camber turns. I will install the 21mm rear to help the car rotate mid corner (on throttle) off.
TWS is a lot rougher, but most turns are on camber or flat and carry a LOT of speed. I'll go back to the 19 to help settle the rear.
I finally ran across an unobtainable 35mm SLP front bar. I installed it and ran MSR-C. And as I figured, the car had a mid-corner off push.
I installed 275 rear springs and it helped, but still had a push. I removed the 1/4" wheel spacer off the rear and went to a 1/8" ... helped more, but still not enough. So, I had to drive through it.
I now have a set of 300lb rear springs to try.
Even though I've done it a hundred times, it still amazes me how much difference a single change can make and the domino effect and work it takes to bring everything back to neutral.
04-29-2011, 04:56 PM
#15
I probably chose the wrong word. On exit under power the front end would keep biting, and the back felt like it wanted to roll over (not flip over, just waiting for it to stop the body roll). Wallow probably would have been the better word. It would kind of lean, and then felt like it would bounce or snap (not hard, just rock a little) as the back end caught up to the front. Rear just felt slow. I guess I am just doing a terrible job of describing it. Bottome line matched set of bars is much more fun than a mismatched set.
04-29-2011, 05:03 PM
#16
That is pretty much what I experienced on the RS with the 32/15 setup, when you say snap, that what I meant by slingshot feeling... 
The 19 feels better back there.
The 19 feels better back there.
I probably chose the wrong word. On exit under power the front end would keep biting, and the back felt like it wanted to roll over (not flip over, just waiting for it to stop the body roll). Wallow probably would have been the better word. It would kind of lean, and then felt like it would bounce or snap (not hard, just rock a little) as the back end caught up to the front. Rear just felt slow. I guess I am just doing a terrible job of describing it. Bottome line matched set of bars is much more fun than a mismatched set.
