Cosmos

iTrader: (15)

What size rearsway bar should I go with? I have a 35 mm in the front now. A sponser suggested a 25, but that seems more like a drag racing bar. I want my car to be a corner Carver more than a drag set up. I'm about drop drop a lot on suspension parts at the end of the month so I wanna make sure I get the right one.

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

Our bar is a 35mm front paired with a 25mm rear and it is absolutely designed for handling first and foremost.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

And I'll tell you that my 22mm is absolutely designed for handling first and foremost. My 35/22 is what I won multiple National Championships, and what's on the car that comes up when you click this video link (my old car, new owner). I'll let the video speak for itself.

I was running (and winning on) 35/22 long before anyone else made such a combination, even back when others here were touting 32/21, sometimes even 32/25(!) as the combination to have. Only recently in fact have you seen some change to a 35mm front bar, after I've been doing it for years. But the fact remains, it's the balance of the two together that makes things work right.

And, I also offer a 22mm rear bar that's 3-position adjustable too, giving you the option to pick which you like best.

Cosmos

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the response. Do you have a part number for just the rear?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

My rear non-adjustable: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=126&ModelID=7

The Adjustable version: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=126&ModelID=7

Now, if for some odd reason you'd want a 25mm rear bar I can do them, including an adjustable version too. But really it's too big which is why I don't post them normally on the website.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

Here is a picture of a car that is owned and built by Justin Ceslar of GM High Tech specifically for handling. This car was built for more than just running around a parking lot and knocking over cones. This car is regularly ran at Sebring International Raceway and uses a whole catalog full of BMR suspension.

There is honestly not one "magical" sway bar that works the best, it really depends on what the driver is looking for as far as feel goes and certain varianbles of the car. Cars with different tires, power levels, and different drivers will want/need a different sway bar. From testing on our own and with the help from the guys over at GM High Tech we have found that our sway bar setup really is a happy medium for most people. They work amazingly well on the street and just as well when they are being pushed on the track.

The part for just the rear sway bar by itself is SB003. If there are any specific questions I can answer for you let me know.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Your attitude sucks. I made this point on a Mustang forum the other day, and it seems I have to here as well.

You are frankly ignorant if you think that all my setup can do is run around a parking lot and hit cones. But more to the point, my stuff is an approved kit for SCCA Touring 2 category in Club Racing. And if you recall in 2007 I also did a setup for GMHTP which lopped off a total of 7 seconds on a 1:30 lap on a road course. And finally, if you think that running on Hoosier's, pulling upwards of 1.3 lateral G's is no big deal, then I invite you to come prove you wares at a lowly autocross.

I'll even come most of the way to you. I'll be running a National Tour the weekend of March 10th just North of Valdosta Georgia. Feel free to come try and show me up. I'd love it.

And here's a reminder of what I did way back in 2007.... long before BMR had Koni's, or had changed their springs after years of claiming their previous ones were "the best". AND this was done with a PHB, and not a Watts link which has come out since these articles and really adds another dimension to the handling prowess of a solid axle car.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...aro/index.html

Also, I have NEVER advertised in that magazine. My stuff was used because the car owner wanted the parts on the car, not because I gave them a dime in advertising money.

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

You continue to bad mouth our product and, quite frankly, there is no justification in it. We employ several engineers (current owner and the founding members who are still here) who develop our products and have been in the game longer than probably any other suspension sponsor on this forum. We started with drag racing because these are Camaros and Firebirds and we all grew up drag racing. As we have gained the luxury of expanding our business, we have been able to assess our other product lines and look at ways to improve them. That's what good companies do. We have always felt we produced a great quality set of bars and we have improved upon those while making them lighter weight than ever before. We're happy with them and so are all of our customers.

I don't recall us ever mentioning your products as being bad, like you continue to allude to in your posts. If we came out with bars in 1999 and didn't think we could make them better, we would be fools. Yet if we change anything, it's a sign of weakness? I see it as a sign of strength because we don't just sit around content with everything we make. We listen to customer responses, test out new designs on our own cars, and throw tons of power at it at the same time. Not every customer is looking for the same thing. Not every customer is looking to keep a stock motor and only change sway bars, shocks, and springs. In your view, everything we make is wrong...yet you sell similar products just in case?

As for the challenge: you race SCCA Autocross. We race NMRA, NMCA, and are recreational autocross and road racers racers. I'm solo certified to race on road courses and hit up a big track at least twice a year. I don't have the kind of money to do anything else or race competitively because, to be quite honest, I wanted nothing to do with class road racing. I'm all about building MY car the way I wanted. Therefore I have a killer street head/cam GTO that I setup for road course work and can embarrass some high-end hardware at Sebring, Homestead, Daytona, and PBIR. That's what I want to do. You built your car to compete in classes and have excelled because you are a great, focused driver who also develops parts ideas at the same time. You will never find us calling you out on your parts, your skills, or your knowledge - at least not me. I'm here to help the members out any way I can, even on parts we don't sell and never will.

vjo90rs8

iTrader: (9)

I have a 35mm solid ST front bar and wanted to pair it with a larger rear bar. With a bit of searching on ebay and thirdgen.org I was able to find a factory 21mm sway bar from and old 84 WS6 for cheap, bought some poly bushings and end links, added some black paint and probably spent $50 total.
The second option would be to go with either a 22mm solid (UMI) or 22mm hollow from Sam.

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

That's a pretty good suggestion.

I would go with a 21mm solid or a 22mm hollow with the 35mm front.

JD_AMG

I don't see any bad mouthing of your product, simply stating what hes found from his years of driving experience (that 25mm rear bar is too big unless you are running a weird setup), and this is not an uncommon statement if you would browse FRRAX. Then you guys have the nerve to say things like this:
As if thats all it can do. Funny the mention of GMHTP, because if I remember right a rep from there recently posted on here how he liked the balance of Sam's car better than the "STi killer" setup. I love irony.

Basically any thread that has a BMR tech and Sam in it at the same time the BMR tech will jab away with little dumb bs like in this very thread:
Attitude is the issue, always has been.
You come out with 32mm/25mm bars claiming they are the "best", now have 35mm/25mm bars, which are some how the "best" now, so were you guys wrong before?
What about the old 1" drop springs that you guys claimed were "best", now the new ones are basically a knock off of Sams, and claimed to be the "best". So which is it? Were you wrong before?

I see it as a lack of testing, these LS1 Fbodies have not changed since 1998, spring rates and swaybars shouldn't be changing very much(if any) at all for handling once you get down a balance setup. And certainly not offering 32mm front bars claiming they are great considering GM put 35mm front bars on some of these cars(matched with 21mm rear bars)...

Ive never seen him say that, seems only when you guys claim that your setup is superior, or knock his, this is the turn out.

lol good god...

KTK Z28

iTrader: (6)

Kinda sucks this thread turned into a back and forth match between two sponsors. Regarding BMR, I have always wondered this as well... Sams swaybar set up (35/22) is said to be the best on this site, I think we can all agree on that based on the sheer popularity factor. However, I have always wondered what exactly the best would entail, many of us are running staggered wheels and tires, sometimes with huge variances (265 up front and 315 out back). Now in that case with such a staggered tire set up would a 25mm bar be more ideal than a 22??? Not only this but many of us also run staggered tire brands/models (stickier in the rear) would this also cause a 25 to be more ideal? I mean the list can go on and on but I think you can catch my drift.

Of course not trying to bash Sam or BMR as I have bought products from both vendors and ALWAYS been satisfied with the service and product. I myself am in the market for swaybars and am just looking out for the best interest for my particular set up. Again not bashing Sam in any way, his FREE technical support has always brought me back as a customer but I whole heartedly feel that saying a certain swaybar is the absolute best for everything is in need of explanation or maybe I'm just not understanding here?????

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I never believe there is a one size fits all answer. Which is why I ask questions of my customers, but also offer options.

For example. I make an adjustable rear bar for the car. In fact we make two, but one isn't on the website because it's a little extreme for most cases/uses. When you consider that I have the follow bars:

Strano Performance Hollow 22mm
UMI Performance Solid 22mm
Strano Performance Hollow + 3 position ADJUSTABLE 22mm
Strano Performance Hollow + 3 position ADJUSTABLE 25mm
Hotchkis 15/16" (nee 24mm) + 3 position ADJUSTABLE bar

I've got about every roll stiffness rate covered that could be considered at all useful to a car meant to handle well. And if you want a drag bar, well UMI makes those and I'm a full line UMI dealer.

Yes, when running a staggered setup you might well tend toward a bit more rear bar for balance. But not always, you have to consider the springs in use on the car, and the tires. A crap 315 might not be as sticky as a better 275 front, in which case you don't need to compensate with a lot of rear bar. Want to run a Watts link? Might want more than the standard 22mm, which is actually the real reason I developed the 22mm Adjustable bar... Because as you lower the roll center height you tend to want to increase roll stiffness for balance.

It's a great question, and I'm glad there are folks around who ask stuff like this because I *think* I do a decent job answering this stuff. Bottom lining it, it's situation dependent. And that's what drives me so god-damned nuts when the peanut-gallery chimes in and starts making "recommendations" based on little and often no real information. And in order for me to get the information I feel I need, I generally need to talk to folks. I never hold a gun to anyone to buy, often talk them out of things they might have otherwise heard they needed if I don't think they will help (and explain why). In fact with the time I spend it's been floated that I charge a consulting fee to try and keep the brain pickers more at bay. Other vendors on this site have done exactly that to try and deal with the issue of knowledge not resulting in business. Time is money, and time is what it takes for me to try and communicate with people on a person basis, and it's hard to survive like that, most especially when others have two or three guys just laying in wait for the next would be customer.

bene

iTrader: (16)

I have a staggered set wheels and street tires with Sam's solid 35 mm swaybar and hollow 22 mm rear and it's pretty neutral. I push my car a lot at the round abouts here and my car goes to where I point it.

2QUIK4U

iTrader: (7)

I have a 21mm rear bar on my T/A with a 35mm front but I would agree that the Strano 22mm rear bar is slightly better. I had the Strano front and rear bars on both of my old Camaros. I just used the 21mm bar on the T/A because it was laying around the garage and I figured it was better than the stock 18mm bar which it is by far.

KTK Z28

iTrader: (6)

Sam, thank you very much for the explanation. It is also good to know that you sell an adjustable 25mm bar not listed on your website. Of course it is always better to just call you as I normally do but displaying your previous post in this thread can really help out a lot of members and lurkers. Thank you Sam.

Scott@GMHTP

That was me, and no that is not accurate. I said it was impossible to compare. I was alluding to some upcoming changes unrelated to the "balance" and would encourage you to pick up the February issue 12/7. I (personally) have not driven the STI Killer since these changes, but its lap times are faster than anything we've ever tested on our course in FL (which is NOT the same course we tested Strano's suspension on). I would definitely put the STI Killer on par with the two cars I drove with Strano's suspension, but (again) couldn't declare a "winner."

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

With all due respect, when we did the car for GMHTP is was back in very early 2007, 4.5 years ago. I used what I had been using for a long time which were Koni shocks my springs (which were only a couple of years old at that time, but not new), Strano Peformance 35/22 bars, and a UMI Panhard bar... And I skipped LCA's of any type.

Fast forward to now, and this "STi Killer" project. Back then BMR didn't sell Koni, and their lowering spring were completely different (and I notice the article makes specific mention the redesign). And their bars back then were 32/22 as I recall. So what's new here?????????? I mean Koni's have been around a long time. The springs were changed to be, more like mine. They even upped their front bar to 1-3/8" hollow... hmmm (although the article says 1" for the front, which I think means to say the rear).

So am I surprised when Scott reports a similar result? I can't say I am considering it was pretty easy for the foundation to be borrowed from what I did years prior. In fact the biggest difference is the rear bar size, and the wheels/tires. Rick ran his car on 17's, and baselined on Michelin Pilot Sports with the street tire follow up on Nitto 555's (not R's, not R II's) and then some laps later on NT-01's. And make no mistake, Michelin Pilots with 3/32 or so are much better tires than Nitto 555's with full tread for running laps.

Mind you I did this long before. My god, they even came to run the same shock settings I did. Is this news?

Yeah, I'm frustrated. There is a whole lot of spin here, and it kills me to see it.

FACT: I ran/used/raced on/won on Koni's long before BMR decided it might be smart to carry them.

FACT: I was running a linear rate 550 front, linear working rate 150 rear since late 2005 in a production spring, and since 2004 on a race setup, and I've never had to "redesign" the spring because I did my due diligence from the start.

FACT: Strano bars have always been 35mm front and almost since the beginning hollow too. The only redesign there stemmed from the original supplier not being able to produce the product and the new supplier had some different parameters I need to go with. The bar size, and tubing size has remained the same throughout. Again, no mid-course redesign... and certainly not after having the stones to claim "the best" products before.

And here's the kicker... on a Mustang forum BMR is all after me for my autocrossing and other things. So far I've heard how I'm entry level, how just because I don't think LCA's are needed all the time that I'm wrong and don't understand because I can't run them (like I've never driven a car with them I guess). Funny thing, that whole mess started because a guy asked which ones, and I said "maybe you don't need them, what is the car doing that makes you think you do?". Ironically, and by his own admission, the car isn't doing anything that requires them. There isn't a hint of wheelhop for instance. And for the really ironic part, in this STi Killer stuff the testing was done on a go-kart track on which Central Florida Region SCCA runs local--wait for it--AUTOCROSSES! *GASP*. That's what amused me so much. They'll attack anything they can, like my autocrossing (not that they do a damned thing related to cornering where you can prove results like I do), then turn around and point to this article that is basically done on a small track in a very much autocross type situation.

tillery

iTrader: (4)

I like the adjustable 22mm. I just happened to be rereading old gm magazines and noticed when they where swapping rears on that blue Z and red TA and it was on stock LCAs and TQ arm. Would it matter on the road course? Figure its a drivers race there. Except the later has bigger brakes and different tires. Ive bought from both Sam and BMR. Sam did all the research and development. Another vote for Sam and his experience on these cars on AND off the track. Even tho he drives a Ford now! Lol.

Scott@GMHTP

GMHTP is in the business of creating new editorial content with a variety of different manufacturers. I had no part in the tuning of the shocks, those settings were either given by BMR, its customers, or a variety of other road racers who use Konis. Those settings were also the starting point, and we will be making some adjustments moving forward. I can assure you that we are not involved in any "spin" or any other of the vague implications made here, which would compromise our integrity. And we will continue to objectively test new, revised, and even old products we never tested before for the enjoyment of our readers.