I'm Afraid of My Car
#21
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How do you figure, unless the car is a dry track-only car? I would imagine the majority of folks here have their car as street first, track second, so other tests matter, and hydroplaning is important if you get caught in a down pour -- PSS is rated tops here vs. halfway for the NT 05… The PSS is rated higher than the NT 05 for dry handling, and the tread life is abominable for the NT 05s -- lowest rating vs. 2nd to highest for the PSS AND they come with a 30k mi. tread wear warranty!
A few things to consider: The PS2 has 9.5/32nds compared to 7/32nds on the NT-05. If it does not have better hydroplane resitance and wear longer, then Michelin has royally screwed up. Physics is on their side from the beginning. In addition the PS2 is a $260 compared to a $160 tire. If it was not a better tire in just bout every respect, Michelin should again be ashamed. In my opinion, the NT-05 is a perfectly acceptable choice for people that want high grip, expect to only drive in decent weather, and really are not heartbroken about wear. I know these will do beeter than my drag radials that I ahad on for 6 years, so I am satisfied with treadwear on that front. My point basically is that directly comparing the PS2 and NT-05 is a rather insignificant excercise, as they are not really competitors. The NT-05 is basically a budget friendly alternative for pople that can not/ or do not want to spend Michelin money.
The Direzza is not available in 275/40/17. So for my purposes they were never an option. They very well may be better, but do not help me.
#22
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PS2 (82 of 100, 20k tread wear warranty) and PSS (90 of 100, 30k tread wear warranty) are different level tires… I never mentioned the PS2 in my previous posts.
NT 05 vs. PS2 well the NT 05 is slightly better in wet braking but the PS2 is tops in hydroplaning, and they both suck in tread wear -- I got right about 20k out of my previous 275/40/17 PS2s. PS2s are also better in rolling resistance, noise and ride quality. Personally I would look at the BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2s over the above two, and that's what I put on my RS (275/40/17)…
With tires, you do often get what you pay for.
NT 05 vs. PS2 well the NT 05 is slightly better in wet braking but the PS2 is tops in hydroplaning, and they both suck in tread wear -- I got right about 20k out of my previous 275/40/17 PS2s. PS2s are also better in rolling resistance, noise and ride quality. Personally I would look at the BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2s over the above two, and that's what I put on my RS (275/40/17)…
With tires, you do often get what you pay for.
The PS2 has 9.5/32nds compared to 7/32nds on the NT-05. If it does not have better hydroplane resitance and wear longer, then Michelin has royally screwed up. Physics is on their side from the beginning. In addition the PS2 is a $260 compared to a $160 tire. If it was not a better tire in just bout every respect, Michelin should again be ashamed. In my opinion, the NT-05 is a perfectly acceptable choice for people that want high grip, expect to only drive in decent weather, and really are not heartbroken about wear. I know these will do beeter than my drag radials that I ahad on for 6 years, so I am satisfied with treadwear on that front. My point basically is that directly comparing the PS2 and NT-05 is a rather insignificant excercise, as they are not really competitors. The NT-05 is basically a budget friendly alternative for pople that can not/ or do not want to spend Michelin money.
The Direzza is not available in 275/40/17. So for my purposes they were never an option. They very well may be better, but do not help me.
The Direzza is not available in 275/40/17. So for my purposes they were never an option. They very well may be better, but do not help me.
#24
Launching!
Thread Starter
#25
Launching!
Thread Starter
What tires is the OP on? The best rated tire EVER by Consumer Reports (90 of 100; NT 05 only got a 78 of 100!) is the Michelin Pilot Super Sport -- but you need to graduate to 18" wheels for them on F-Bodies to get 275/35/18. If staying with 17", might want to go with BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2 -- they are also made by Michelin since they're owned by them, and have some similar properties to the Michelin PSS, although not yet rated by CR until this fall update…
Are your SFCs welded? If not, that can further help with rigidity and tracking on your 'Vert.
Looks like you have most all the right stuff, except if you have poly bushings in any place other than the sway bar applications, I would consider replacing them for better articulation…
Don't do anything stupid, and slow it down when you feel unstable. A roll bar would be a wise investment considering this thread topic -- I added a Wolfe 4-pt to my 'Vert (to participate in HPDEs) -- it further stiffened the chassis as well.
Are your SFCs welded? If not, that can further help with rigidity and tracking on your 'Vert.
Looks like you have most all the right stuff, except if you have poly bushings in any place other than the sway bar applications, I would consider replacing them for better articulation…
Don't do anything stupid, and slow it down when you feel unstable. A roll bar would be a wise investment considering this thread topic -- I added a Wolfe 4-pt to my 'Vert (to participate in HPDEs) -- it further stiffened the chassis as well.
#26
Launching!
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#27
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Man I wish I could take a ride in a car like yours, I've never been in an f-body with full suspension and would love to see how they handle properly set up so I can decide if I should keep building mine or sell for a Miata or something more nimble lol.
A bunch of Fiero guys I cruise with are doing their next cruise starting from Phillipsburg NJ on August 31st, its a lot of fun on some amazing twisty+ fast backroads and all GM sports cars are welcome. PM me if interested in coming out, I'd love to drool over your car! Anyone else is welcome!
#28
Launching!
Thread Starter
Looks like better tires and maybe some wheels in the near future for me. And I'll slow down...
But it's hard to resist
But it's hard to resist
Last edited by 38DD2436; 08-08-2013 at 06:04 AM.
#31
Launching!
Thread Starter
I wouldn't go that far^^. I'm not into road rage or being disrespectful to other drivers. I usually drive in the middle or slow lanes. Just like to push it when the time is right. BTW I never got into name calling. It'd too easy to lower myself by doing that
Last edited by 38DD2436; 08-08-2013 at 09:59 AM.
#32
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Im with JakeFusion on the Toyo's, BEST DAMN TIRES I HAVE RUN! I can understand driving HARD in the corners, i do it myself when the time is right. Just sounds like the car is outperforming the rubber. There is always a limit before the car spins out! You have to find that balance!!!
#33
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Sounds like you're driving it a little hot for the street (my own $.02), however the tires appear to be your only limitation.
I run Nitto 555R II's on the street and the track and LOVE them. Not friendly in the rain or when cold, however if you're only driving the car on nice, sunny days I believe you would love the traction improvement. The Toyo R888's also seem to offer similar performance (great dry traction, bearable in the rain and similar durability).
I run Nitto 555R II's on the street and the track and LOVE them. Not friendly in the rain or when cold, however if you're only driving the car on nice, sunny days I believe you would love the traction improvement. The Toyo R888's also seem to offer similar performance (great dry traction, bearable in the rain and similar durability).
#37
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To be honest I'm not really 100% sure of what the issue is. Seems like he's lacking grip based on what was said, but then I read this "All 4 tires let lose around a corner and hit a dip in the road, caught the rear tire and the passenger side came up off the ground." The first part indicates a lack of grip, the second is something else entirely.
First the tires *SUCK*. The suspension is FAR more capable than those tires are. Second there are any number of tires you could put on that are much better. Many mentioned are great, but to be honest I think I'd recommend Continental DW. Ride nice, quiet, AWESOME in the rain, 320 TW, and have dry grip up there with a Michelin PSS, Comp T/A 2, less than Direzza Z2's and some others that are really more race tires (there is a tire war in autocross that is driving a lot of the 200 TW tires to be more comp than street).
I get the sense that the rear LCA's are all poly and either boxed or tubular? You say you have roto-joint A-arms, but not LCA's. Well that's a bind which doesn't let the axle follow the road without dragging the car along with it. LCA bracket make this somewhat worse too. In fact one of the reasons I don't care to run LCA brackets on lowered cars is without them the car has more roll understeer which makes it more stable.
Also, if you are running high pressures, stop. 30 in the back, 30-34 in front depending on the feel. Air pressure adds spring rate to a tire, which can make it more skittery this is only make worse when the compound has no grip to start with, like NEXEN tires.
First the tires *SUCK*. The suspension is FAR more capable than those tires are. Second there are any number of tires you could put on that are much better. Many mentioned are great, but to be honest I think I'd recommend Continental DW. Ride nice, quiet, AWESOME in the rain, 320 TW, and have dry grip up there with a Michelin PSS, Comp T/A 2, less than Direzza Z2's and some others that are really more race tires (there is a tire war in autocross that is driving a lot of the 200 TW tires to be more comp than street).
I get the sense that the rear LCA's are all poly and either boxed or tubular? You say you have roto-joint A-arms, but not LCA's. Well that's a bind which doesn't let the axle follow the road without dragging the car along with it. LCA bracket make this somewhat worse too. In fact one of the reasons I don't care to run LCA brackets on lowered cars is without them the car has more roll understeer which makes it more stable.
Also, if you are running high pressures, stop. 30 in the back, 30-34 in front depending on the feel. Air pressure adds spring rate to a tire, which can make it more skittery this is only make worse when the compound has no grip to start with, like NEXEN tires.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
#38
Launching!
Thread Starter
Yes, the LCA's are poly, tubular. Thanks for the tip. Ordering Roto LCA's next week. For Sale: UMI tubular LCA'S, brackets and hardware kit. Less than 800 miles.
#39
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For sake of discussion, Consumer Reports rates the Continental Extreme Contact DWs at 80 of 100, a full ten points less than Michelin PSS, not that CR is the be all end all, but a useful data point… Here is their breakdown:
Michelin PSS 90 of 100 by CR; 30k mi. tread wear warranty, 300 tread wear rating, AA traction rating, A temp rating
Continental Extreme Contact DW 80 of 100 by CR; NO tread wear warranty, 340 tread wear rating, AA traction rating, A temp rating
"there is a tire war in autocross that is driving a lot of the 200 TW tires to be more comp than street" I am not sure what this means? That some lower TW tires are more competitive on the track than street tires?
FYI to the OP, there are also some basic ratings here:
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...s/Tires+Rating
Michelin PSS 90 of 100 by CR; 30k mi. tread wear warranty, 300 tread wear rating, AA traction rating, A temp rating
- Excellent Dry Braking
- Excellent Dry Handling
- Excellent Wet Braking
- Very Good Wet Handling
- Excellent Hydroplaning
- Very Good Ride
- Good Noise
- Very Good Rolling resistance
- Very Good Tread life
Continental Extreme Contact DW 80 of 100 by CR; NO tread wear warranty, 340 tread wear rating, AA traction rating, A temp rating
- Excellent Dry Braking
- Very Good Dry Handling
- Very Good Wet Braking
- Very Good Wet Handling
- Excellent Hydroplaning
- Good Ride
- Very Good Noise
- Good Rolling resistance
- Fair Tread life
"there is a tire war in autocross that is driving a lot of the 200 TW tires to be more comp than street" I am not sure what this means? That some lower TW tires are more competitive on the track than street tires?
FYI to the OP, there are also some basic ratings here:
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...s/Tires+Rating
First the tires *SUCK*. The suspension is FAR more capable than those tires are. Second there are any number of tires you could put on that are much better. Many mentioned are great, but to be honest I think I'd recommend Continental DW. Ride nice, quiet, AWESOME in the rain, 320 TW, and have dry grip up there with a Michelin PSS, Comp T/A 2, less than Direzza Z2's and some others that are really more race tires (there is a tire war in autocross that is driving a lot of the 200 TW tires to be more comp than street).
#40
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You ever think of trying an autox or getting into some kind of track event? You'll become a better driver much faster by going to one of those and probably have a lot more fun. Sorry.. went on a tangent, but I suggest giving it a try.