BCaywood

Ok, so I've recently found a new motor for my bird to replace the one that is in all honesty complete junk. Since it blew on me the my Firebird has basically been sitting around collecting dust and I haven't looked at my blueprints for it in a while but now that I've found a replacement motor and can get it running and driving again soon it has re-sparked my interest and I've been looking through the plans again

I happen to come across the plans I had for the suspension and got to wondering how well it will actually work. I plan on redoing the entire car from ground up (no I'm not rich or delusional, I fully expect this car to take quite some time before it's "done") including the suspension. I want to go all out and replace everything, k member, upper and lower a arms, coilovers, the works. I thought I had it planned out when I came across the good 'ol Spohn site and all the good parts they had to offer, so I decided to start writing down the parts from the site I wanted. However recently I've been thinking about it and wondered if its really what im looking for.

I do want to redo the entire suspension still, but is the Spohn setup the best? I ask because a lot of people, heck most people, who build Firebirds and Camaros are only concerned with drag racing and that's fine, but its not what I'm after. I want an F-body that will take the corners as well as it will blast the straights. The reason this concerns me is that most of the cars I see using the Spohn parts are drag cars. So is the Spohn suspension drag oriented? Will it actually hurt the handling? Suspensions aren't really my area of expertise but isn't tubular generally better than stock stamped for drag or road course? I would love to go full tubular since they make the parts and it will drastically drop the weight in the front end of the car, but will it allow the car to stick to the road like I'm after?

The question was brought up after I was roaming around here on the forums and found someone talking about suspensions for the F-bodies and how the QA-1's are actually detrimental to the cars handling off the strip, and Spohn sells them. I just don't want to drop that kind of money only for it to ruin my handling.

Also if it is good, are the Spohn parts the best on the market? And for that matter will they hold up to dd? I know a lot of people say that a tubular front end will end up giving out under a dd car.

For the record I do know shocks and springs are the best place to start for handling, but I just want to know if this stage of the build is going to set me back

Thanks for all the help

JD_AMG

Good thing you searched and asked here, you would have been really disappointed.
Not to knock Spohn, but there are much better setups out there, even for drag (which is the only thing they offer).
The only site you should bother looking at is http://www.stranoparts.com/
Sam Strano won multiple national SCCA autox titles in his LS1 Z28 with parts he developed/designed specifically for handling.
In a nutshell you should be looking at:
First and foremost shocks. This is by far the #1 biggest handling/ride improvement you can do to these cars. If you are absolutely dead set on coilovers you can look into KW's, Penskies or race bilstiens. Do NOT bother with QA1s, Afcos, Strange and Viking as they are non-gas charged (see foaming, and loss of dampening ability) drag oriented shocks, some of which are labeled and "handling" - couldn't be further from the truth. Otherwise look into Koni SA's paired with Strano springs. Bilstiens (HD and SLPs) or Koni STR's are a cheaper alternative but don't touch the handling performance of the Koni SA's or DA's.

Next would be springs or swaybars, your choice which you do first. I already mentioned strano springs, so lets get to swaybars. The ideal handling balance for swaybars is either 32mm front/19mm rear (stock SS and WS6) or 35mm front with 21mm or 22mm rear (strano's hollow swaybars or UMI's solid swaybars). The strano swaybars will save some unsprung weight for a higher retail while the UMI retails lower at the cost of more weight, your choice.

From there, if you want it look into a watts link. It replaces the panhard bar and gets rid of arc motion that the PHB setup comes with. The Fays2 watts link has an adjustable roll center to fine tune the handling.

One note too, stay away from polyurethane bushings in parts that need to articulate like control arms, they will cause binding and hurt handling. Stick to either rubber or rod-ended / roto-joint ended bushings.

Those will make the biggest improvements in handling (I haven't mentioned tires, but that should be an obvious one). Everything else is miniscule in comparison and things like a shock tower brace does nothing at all, and subframe connectors are arguable whether the difference they make is noticeable. I have them, 3 point welded on and couldn't tell a bit of a difference, but then again I have Koni SA's which got rid of what many mistake for a "flexing" feeling.
Rear LCA's (with roto-joints) make the rear feel a little tighter, but nothing drastic. A full length torque arm (you don't want a shortened one, you will get brake hop) further makes the rear end feel a little more planted, but again nothing drastic. Tubular front suspension is completely unnecessary and some have cracking/breaking issues under street use.

BCaywood

Wow, thanks for the info. Something told me to second guess the setup. I remember seeing a thread about a super clean silver ta running strano parts and i think a watts link. Whats the whole story on the coilovers? I dont remember what the f-bodies have stock and am currently away from my car. I just heard its the best setup and considering the long term goal is to rebuild the suspension from ground up i figured i might as well do it now. How hard is it to swap over to coilovers anyway? And with the tubular front end i mainly want to do it for weight. I want to add power and drop as much weight as i can, especially since i have the 3.4 im looking for a good power to weight and i figure swapping the whole front cradle will lose some serious weight right under the engine, so itll hopefully balance out the car better. So is it worth it? And if i am dead set on it what tubular setup should i go for?

JD_AMG

Don't believe everything you hear, and whats "best" on some cars (like Corvettes or something) may not be best on thees cars.
We have coilovers from the factory up front (just not adjustable ofcourse), and the rear has the typical solid axle coil spring + shock being separate. There is absolutely nothing special about coilovers, they are not magic or something. Its simply an adjustable height spring and shock combo, and unfortunately the majority of them made for our cars are for drag racing. The others that I named (KW's, Penskie, race bilstien) are much higher doller, and the last two are custom valved, custom order coilovers. Unless you really plan on racing the car on a roadcourse often you may not see the benefit of something like that over the Koni/strano setup which is much cheaper.
Coilovers in the rear are something that is usually not recommended as you have to mount the coilover where the shock normally is mounted, and that point in the chassis is not made to take that kind of load. And once again there is no design benefit from this, if you want adjustable height you can buy spring perches for the front and rear from ground control.

Do that LAST if anything as it will likely make a minor difference and you may risking cracking and breaking parts. The only K-member that I know of that is potentially strong enough is the UMI road race Kmember, but there are members on here that road race their cars that have even cracked the stock K-member which is the most heavy duty K-member out there for these things, so be warned.
Also on that same note, drop the V6, not worth the time or hassle to make power out of it IMO. Find a nice aluminum LS based engine that will make a TON more power for cheaper and gain very minimal weight. (ls1s weight a touch under 400lbs, make 350 flywheel hp stock, and will make 400+ at the flywheel with just bolt ons).

BCaywood

As far as the v6 goes I knew someone was going to make the comment to drop a v8 in it. Ultimately my plan is to drop an ls1 in it and build it to 600 rwhp, but that's an expensive price tag, and I can't even afford an ls1 donor car right now which is what I need since not one thing in the drivetrain is compatible between the 3.4 and the ls1. So I decided to keep the 3.4 and do some minor mods to spice it up a little while I build the rest of the car so that when I can afford to drop in the ls1 the rest of the car is ready for it and won't get tore up by the added power and torque. And even if its a minor difference in the tubular, it's a difference and they add up all across the car. I'm being as, ****, about weight saving as I can so that I'm not just adding hp but also dropping weight so the added power has a bigger impact. I even thought about that C4 I.R.S. swap but that's a little to serious, at least for now lol and people say that a proper shock and spring setup along with a watts link is almost as good as an I.R.S. So after looking at the Strano sight it seems like i should go with UMI over Spohn when I get around to replacing the major chassis components?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Ultimate handling setup would be this:

LG G2 Bilstein Aluminum coilovers with Hyperco springs (they are inverted for less unsprung weight and have new upper mounts which kill the stock pieces - plus any rate you want)
Strano Hollow 35mm front and 22mm adjustable rear sway bar (light and the adjustable rear allows you to tune slightly)
Unbalanced Engineering De-Coupled Torque Arm (no brake hop as it decouples on braking zones, and acts as a short torque arm when you accelerate, giving you the best of both worlds)
Fays2 Watts Link (much better than a panhard bar for handling)

I'd run tubular LCAs in the rear and tubular upper and lower A-arms in the front to reduce unsprung weight.

Everything else is a waste or is drag oriented.

ssvert99

iTrader: (26)

There are a lot of options out there for sure, it is a real good idea to do some research on this before you spend your hard earned money.

Give us a call and we can discuss what you are really looking to do, your future goals, and your budget.

Chances are we can help you on this, and get you the right parts the first time as well as the lowest price.

BCaywood

I've checked you guys out before, real good stuff. I've even checked out an M9 for my bird to, still waiting on the finds to pull the trigger on it though. Like I said, the blown motor has had it collecting dust for a while now