To watts link or modify current
To watts link or modify current The first step is to state that I'm not looking for a car that is so rigid that driving it in the DC area is bone jarring. So with that said I'm trying to find a happy medium
My current set up
2000 Camaro SS
Wheels - CCW 505a
Front 18x9.5
Rear 19x11
Shocks and Springs
Koni 4/3 BMR (set at mid way)
Sway bars
Front 35mm solid (dont know brand)
Rear 22mm solid (dont know brand)
I measured them its the only way i know their dimension
Tubular upper A-arms
BMR Rear control arms and Panhard Rod
UMI Sub frame connectors and strut tower brace
I purchased the car used so some pieces on the car were on there before I bought and a few are budget bought used or on sale.
The question is the Watts link worth it for me to refine my street cornering capability. The back seems like it wants to step out when i push hard. Im wondering if the watts link will make up for not wanting to set the shocks up for their hardest setting.
Any advice is appreciated
My current set up
2000 Camaro SS
Wheels - CCW 505a
Front 18x9.5
Rear 19x11
Shocks and Springs
Koni 4/3 BMR (set at mid way)
Sway bars
Front 35mm solid (dont know brand)
Rear 22mm solid (dont know brand)
I measured them its the only way i know their dimension
Tubular upper A-arms
BMR Rear control arms and Panhard Rod
UMI Sub frame connectors and strut tower brace
I purchased the car used so some pieces on the car were on there before I bought and a few are budget bought used or on sale.
The question is the Watts link worth it for me to refine my street cornering capability. The back seems like it wants to step out when i push hard. Im wondering if the watts link will make up for not wanting to set the shocks up for their hardest setting.
Any advice is appreciated
'To watts link or modify current' ?
how/what would you modify current ?
you stated wheel sizes but you didn't state tire sizes ?/?/18 & 19.
as section width decreases,so does ride comfort as sidewall height decreases.
how/what would you modify current ?
you stated wheel sizes but you didn't state tire sizes ?/?/18 & 19.
as section width decreases,so does ride comfort as sidewall height decreases.
Front tire is 275/35R18
Rear tire is 305/30R19
The only modification I can think of are different shocks or to make them full stiff. But to me that would make the rough streets in this are worse... vs the watts link may control the back end to what im looking for im not sure the best course of action... it seems alot of guys that are doing road courses put in a watts link but how is the watts links behavior on the street.
Rear tire is 305/30R19
The only modification I can think of are different shocks or to make them full stiff. But to me that would make the rough streets in this are worse... vs the watts link may control the back end to what im looking for im not sure the best course of action... it seems alot of guys that are doing road courses put in a watts link but how is the watts links behavior on the street.
contact Sam Strano for your watts link questions
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=67&ModelID=7
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=67&ModelID=7
To take full advantage of a watts link you need to raise the rear spring rate and drop the roll center down for increased bite out of corners. I have a watts link on a car that sees lots of track/autocross, but I would never buy one for a street car. Not worth it unless you drive the car really hard, and especially not worth it unless you change spring/bar rates to take advantage of a lower roll center.
It appears you're settled into the "middle ground" right now. Ultimately, the direction you choose to go is dictated by the higher priority of comfort on the street vs. handling performance.
If you're looking for handling, slap in the Watts link.
If you're looking for comfort on the rough roads, stay soft on the shocks. The Bilsteins are a comfortable ride, however you would sacrafice handling performance and the adjustibility of the Konis.
If you're looking for handling, slap in the Watts link.
If you're looking for comfort on the rough roads, stay soft on the shocks. The Bilsteins are a comfortable ride, however you would sacrafice handling performance and the adjustibility of the Konis.
Last edited by Midnight02; Apr 7, 2015 at 08:44 AM.
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I see a lot of things that are misunderstood. First the rear shocks turned up won't help ride. Neither do lower control arms that don't articulate well.
A Watts link is awesome, when done right. There are now cheap copies and totally unproven ones floating around (shocking). A Watts can certainly help tame the rear, but I see other issues that are making it worse than it should be already.
A Watts link is awesome, when done right. There are now cheap copies and totally unproven ones floating around (shocking). A Watts can certainly help tame the rear, but I see other issues that are making it worse than it should be already.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,798
Likes: 16
From: St.Charles MO
Front tire is 275/35R18
Rear tire is 305/30R19
The only modification I can think of are different shocks or to make them full stiff. But to me that would make the rough streets in this are worse... vs the watts link may control the back end to what im looking for im not sure the best course of action... it seems alot of guys that are doing road courses put in a watts link but how is the watts links behavior on the street.
Rear tire is 305/30R19
The only modification I can think of are different shocks or to make them full stiff. But to me that would make the rough streets in this are worse... vs the watts link may control the back end to what im looking for im not sure the best course of action... it seems alot of guys that are doing road courses put in a watts link but how is the watts links behavior on the street.
What bushings are in the rear control arms? (poly can bind and cause oversteer and poor ride quality).
Having 18/19" wheels is really not helping the ride quality at all either. Make sure your tire pressure isn't over 30psi, especially if you have stiff side wall'ed tires.
As far as the wattslink goes I have the Fays2 unit Sam sells and it didn't effect ride quality at all from what I could tell, but it definitely helped handling when pushing the car hard. However I would start with what I posted above first.
As I posted in post #2,tires effect ride quality. I went from the OEM 245/50/16 to 275/40/17 and I lost the OEM ride quality/comfort but I didn't care as handling was priority to me.
I already own the Koni's, would stiffening up the rear shocks help me tame the rear.... I have poly trailing arms and panhard rod so as I understand it that does create "bind". Would it be more worth it to put in rod ended control arms and panhard rod at around 400 to get the suspension more controllable or just add a watts link. From what I read watts link wont effect comfort but will control the rear better. I have grabbed a more or less middle of the road...with my setup but alot of this set up was based on budget and still is to some extent. ( I have another much bigger camaro project that is sucking up alot of money). I know this isnt the best set up but Im trying to compare comfort vs cost vs effectiveness. I dont want to just throw parts at it but grab the most effective value.
Sam I understand that your really good or great at the suspension piece and tuning and getting your customers exactly what they need... but I am curious what is a cheap copy of a watts link... what makes it what you consider cheap. Unproven I understand.
Sam I understand that your really good or great at the suspension piece and tuning and getting your customers exactly what they need... but I am curious what is a cheap copy of a watts link... what makes it what you consider cheap. Unproven I understand.
Last edited by a383z; Apr 6, 2015 at 09:11 PM.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 338
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From: Bridgewater, Ma
You do not want to stiffen the rear start with this and adjust accordingly 4 sweeps in the front and maybe 1/2-1 sweeps in the rear. When adjusting suspension you are only going to want to make one change at a time so you can isolate an issue if your car handles wonky. Don't bother with the watts now its just going to be more stuff to adjust for no reason unless you car about RRC and keeping the rear axle centered.
If you have straight poly bushings then that can certainly lead to a less than composed feeling rear end around bumpy corners and no a watts won't help that. Cranking up the shock stiffness will probably make it worse. Watts won't really help you there.
Rods will move well but can be noisy from what I understand. For a street car I'd probably go either UMI Roto joints or the Founders 3 piece poly joint LCAs. Roto is probably a little more free moving, The Founders probably a bit softer feeling (relatively speaking, may not be enough to notice). I went with the Founders arms on my car and have been happy with them.
Rods will move well but can be noisy from what I understand. For a street car I'd probably go either UMI Roto joints or the Founders 3 piece poly joint LCAs. Roto is probably a little more free moving, The Founders probably a bit softer feeling (relatively speaking, may not be enough to notice). I went with the Founders arms on my car and have been happy with them.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
I already own the Koni's, would stiffening up the rear shocks help me tame the rear.... I have poly trailing arms and panhard rod so as I understand it that does create "bind". Would it be more worth it to put in rod ended control arms and panhard rod at around 400 to get the suspension more controllable or just add a watts link. From what I read watts link wont effect comfort but will control the rear better. I have grabbed a more or less middle of the road...with my setup but alot of this set up was based on budget and still is to some extent. ( I have another much bigger camaro project that is sucking up alot of money). I know this isnt the best set up but Im trying to compare comfort vs cost vs effectiveness. I dont want to just throw parts at it but grab the most effective value.
Sam I understand that your really good or great at the suspension piece and tuning and getting your customers exactly what they need... but I am curious what is a cheap copy of a watts link... what makes it what you consider cheap. Unproven I understand.
Sam I understand that your really good or great at the suspension piece and tuning and getting your customers exactly what they need... but I am curious what is a cheap copy of a watts link... what makes it what you consider cheap. Unproven I understand.
As for will the shocks help you by turning them up. No. I know you went for the middle of the road, but this is where knowing the car is critical. Anyone can sell you (or anyone can buy) parts and stick them in the middle of a range of adjustment, but that doesn't mean it's the best solution or compromise.
Simply put you already got yourself stuff that isn't working as it should.
Get rid of the bind, don't run more air pressure in rear tires than you need. If you have a heavy rear axle that's not helping at all and neither do really heavy wheels, and an effective shock for those unsprung weight increases would like (like a Koni DA if you have those sort of things on the car). Then we can look at a Watts. But look at a Watts that is proven and isn't a cheap knock off of stuff that wins championships.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
Thank you Sam, I highly value your opinion its not a easy task to build a middle of the road car. I will take a couple of your suggestions and work on my current setup but also I think I will call you to buy the watts link.
Ive seen your work since your thirdgen keep up the good job.
Ive seen your work since your thirdgen keep up the good job.