Actual performance results of brake conversions
03-30-2017, 08:51 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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Actual performance results of brake conversions Does anyone have any actual brake test results after installing his or her big brake kit (C5, CTS-V, 5th Gen Camaro, Z06, Baer, Wilwood, etc) on a 4th Gen compared to factory brake setup? Let's see them!
By now there have been plenty of people who have upgraded their 4th Gens and I think we should have a real braking test! Of course, there are plenty of factors that will play into this. If a braking test could be established that includes 4th gens with similar or common upgrades to parts other than the brake calipers and rotor sizes themselves, the results could be very accurate.
Here's what I am thinking:
Roughly 9 or so 4th Gen Camaros/Firebirds with identical/similar:
Tires - size, treadwear rating (how sticky the tires are)
Wheels - does wheel weight matter?
Suspension - shocks, springs, anything else important for braking?
Weight - hopefully cars can be within 20 lbs of each other
BRAKE PADS! - it is most important that these cars have the same brake pads installed!!!
Rotors - hopefully we could get some cars with similar rotor compositions and heat treatment for this test.
Bedding - brakes bedded in properly
Let's be realistic - owners who would be willing to participate in this test will be all over the country. In order for the results to be accurate, the driving conditions must be the same:
Weather - 70 degrees? 80? No precipitation
Surface - asphalt or concrete? Are there cracks in the pavement?
Grade - level ground is most desired, but how do we guarantee that the ground is exactly the same?
The cool thing is that these cars (for the most part) do not have to have the same engine, drivetrain, exhaust, or cosmetic upgrades. But that does raise some questions:
Motor - will different motors have different amounts of friction and other factors that slow down the cars?
Drivetrain - same question as above
Convertible vs T-top vs hard top - does the rigidity of the body severely affect straight line braking?
Comparisons that I would like to see:
OEM 4th Gen calipers and rotor size
C5 conversion
C6 Z51 conversion
C6 Z06 conversion
1st gen CTS-V calipers with Z06 rotors
1st gen CTS-V calipers with 5th gen Camaro rotors
2nd gen CTS-V calipers with Z06 rotors
2nd gen CTS-V calipers with 5th gen Camaro rotors
5th gen Camaro brembos and rotors
Baer, Wilwood, and other brake kit installed cars are welcome and encouraged to participate as well.
After writing all this, I realize that it would probably be easiest to have one car change brakes 9 or so times and test under the same conditions in the same location. Sam Strano? BMR? 6LE? WS6 store? UMI? Come on, someone's gotta be willing to do this and have the parts laying around or easily accessible! It's not like you couldn't sell the parts after minimal use anyway.
In this test, how nice the brakes look and how expensive they are will be disregarded. Prices of parts are different for everybody depending on where/how parts are obtained, so this test will not be inclusive of prices. There are other threads for looks and pricing. The purpose of this test is to find the true PERFORMANCE advantage of upgrading the brakes on a 4th Gen. Rotor and pad composition will (hopefully) be the same. This is purely about rotor size and caliper construction.
Until we can get this experiment to actually occur somewhere, feel free to post your personal straight line braking test results with what car setup/weight you have on your 4th Gen. Are there any flaws in my thought process here? Am I missing anything that should be a constant in the experiment? Also feel free to post ideas for where/when this test can occur. LSFest? Thanks for reading!
By now there have been plenty of people who have upgraded their 4th Gens and I think we should have a real braking test! Of course, there are plenty of factors that will play into this. If a braking test could be established that includes 4th gens with similar or common upgrades to parts other than the brake calipers and rotor sizes themselves, the results could be very accurate.
Here's what I am thinking:
Roughly 9 or so 4th Gen Camaros/Firebirds with identical/similar:
Tires - size, treadwear rating (how sticky the tires are)
Wheels - does wheel weight matter?
Suspension - shocks, springs, anything else important for braking?
Weight - hopefully cars can be within 20 lbs of each other
BRAKE PADS! - it is most important that these cars have the same brake pads installed!!!
Rotors - hopefully we could get some cars with similar rotor compositions and heat treatment for this test.
Bedding - brakes bedded in properly
Let's be realistic - owners who would be willing to participate in this test will be all over the country. In order for the results to be accurate, the driving conditions must be the same:
Weather - 70 degrees? 80? No precipitation
Surface - asphalt or concrete? Are there cracks in the pavement?
Grade - level ground is most desired, but how do we guarantee that the ground is exactly the same?
The cool thing is that these cars (for the most part) do not have to have the same engine, drivetrain, exhaust, or cosmetic upgrades. But that does raise some questions:
Motor - will different motors have different amounts of friction and other factors that slow down the cars?
Drivetrain - same question as above
Convertible vs T-top vs hard top - does the rigidity of the body severely affect straight line braking?
Comparisons that I would like to see:
OEM 4th Gen calipers and rotor size
C5 conversion
C6 Z51 conversion
C6 Z06 conversion
1st gen CTS-V calipers with Z06 rotors
1st gen CTS-V calipers with 5th gen Camaro rotors
2nd gen CTS-V calipers with Z06 rotors
2nd gen CTS-V calipers with 5th gen Camaro rotors
5th gen Camaro brembos and rotors
Baer, Wilwood, and other brake kit installed cars are welcome and encouraged to participate as well.
After writing all this, I realize that it would probably be easiest to have one car change brakes 9 or so times and test under the same conditions in the same location. Sam Strano? BMR? 6LE? WS6 store? UMI? Come on, someone's gotta be willing to do this and have the parts laying around or easily accessible! It's not like you couldn't sell the parts after minimal use anyway.
In this test, how nice the brakes look and how expensive they are will be disregarded. Prices of parts are different for everybody depending on where/how parts are obtained, so this test will not be inclusive of prices. There are other threads for looks and pricing. The purpose of this test is to find the true PERFORMANCE advantage of upgrading the brakes on a 4th Gen. Rotor and pad composition will (hopefully) be the same. This is purely about rotor size and caliper construction.
Until we can get this experiment to actually occur somewhere, feel free to post your personal straight line braking test results with what car setup/weight you have on your 4th Gen. Are there any flaws in my thought process here? Am I missing anything that should be a constant in the experiment? Also feel free to post ideas for where/when this test can occur. LSFest? Thanks for reading!
04-01-2017, 07:42 AM
#2
Staging Lane
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I plan on daily driving, occasionally hitting up the drag strip, road course, and auto cross course. But since a set of sticky tires isn't in the near future, I think I will just save the money I would spend on converting the brakes for now and upgrade the rest of the suspension first. Sucks that we can't get a definite answer on the performance aspect of this question, but you guys were still very helpful!
04-01-2017, 09:15 AM
#3
TECH Senior Member
What has you originally concerned about this? Do your brakes suck really bad right now or what?
I suggest just using quality blank rotors and some good pads (not over the counter autozone crap or some ceramic junk) something like hawk HPS for example. Im using those right now and the braking is significantly improved compared the stock/stock replacement whatever they were on the car when I first bought it. Stopping from higher speeds was definitely questionable before, now I could basically throw my passenger right out the front window under hard stops. The only real time you would be truly benefiting from a big brake kit would be on a high speed road course, everywhere else won't demand the braking power or create the heat that will cause issues with the stock braking system (with good pads, pads are key).
I suggest just using quality blank rotors and some good pads (not over the counter autozone crap or some ceramic junk) something like hawk HPS for example. Im using those right now and the braking is significantly improved compared the stock/stock replacement whatever they were on the car when I first bought it. Stopping from higher speeds was definitely questionable before, now I could basically throw my passenger right out the front window under hard stops. The only real time you would be truly benefiting from a big brake kit would be on a high speed road course, everywhere else won't demand the braking power or create the heat that will cause issues with the stock braking system (with good pads, pads are key).
04-04-2017, 04:36 PM
#4
Teching In
A couple quick panic, non-ABS, lock-up stops will change how you think about the priority of upgrading your brake system on your car real quick. I was close to building a '92 Fox Mustang road race/AutoX car but nix the idea to buy my '98 Camaro SS, it's great to see the improvement in the brake systems in those six years of difference. However, I still have all the parts to for the Mustang so as soon as I get my garage up I'm going to put the Baer T4 front brake system and possibly the rear SS4 system on my '98 SS. I'm interested to see if anyone has put a set of Baer brakes on their 4th gen F-car, I did some searching at work one night and have only found one member, SSRed2K2 ,that did.
04-04-2017, 06:51 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
A couple quick panic, non-ABS, lock-up stops will change how you think about the priority of upgrading your brake system on your car real quick. I was close to building a '92 Fox Mustang road race/AutoX car but nix the idea to buy my '98 Camaro SS, it's great to see the improvement in the brake systems in those six years of difference. However, I still have all the parts to for the Mustang so as soon as I get my garage up I'm going to put the Baer T4 front brake system and possibly the rear SS4 system on my '98 SS. I'm interested to see if anyone has put a set of Baer brakes on their 4th gen F-car, I did some searching at work one night and have only found one member, SSRed2K2 ,that did.
FYI, you do NOT want to upgrade the rear brakes on these cars, that will only cause lock up and wheel hop, the stock rear brakes are strong enough to lock up.
Also while on the subject of brakes, ditch the cross drilled rotors, no benefit and you risk getting stress cracks on them.
04-04-2017, 06:52 PM
#7
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04-23-2017, 12:15 AM
#8
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I did the Baer Trak 4 kit. Itvwas an improvement no doubt. Ive always used Baer on all 4 of my 4th gend ive owned. This Track 4 kit is what i expected from Baer as always. Worth the money!