pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

I have a problem trying to stop at the track over 100mph. my ABS comes on and it is a pain to slow down. there are 3 fuses that say ABS on them. 1 is ABS SOL BAT, and the other 2 are bigger and say ABS BAT.

can i just pull all 3? will that shut it off? this is just for track purposes. will it effect anything else?

Thanks.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I just pulled the small one; shut the ABS right off. It will be easy to lock up the rear tires after you do this, so be careful you don't spin out.

chicane

How about putting some real pads in the front end and not bypassing the ABS all together ??? Then....... youll have better brakes all the time.....

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I second this idea! Acutally, this is exactly what I did. I run stock rear pads with Hawk pads up front.

z28C4maro82z

iTrader: (33)

ABS saved my life many a time......I'm a fan

Z28SPD

abs has been proven not to help you, and actually put you in risk in certain situations, search on the web.

TooSlow02

That's a pretty ignorant remark. What situations might you be referring to? And if it has been PROVEN not to help, why are so many cars currently offered with ABS?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

It also depends on the design of the ABS system, since as one who's lived in the west for several years should've witnessed an evolution in automotive braking systems, especially ABS.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

ABS is useful for people who can't drive, which is about 99% of the commuters out there.

60-0 stopping distances, with a g-tech pro. When stopping while trying to keep abs from engaging, I was getting stopping distances in the 115-120 ft range. When just slamming on the brakes and letting the abs do all the work, the stopping distances were in the 139-146 ft range. Half a dozen stops using each method, alternating between the two. All 12 going in the same direction, no back and fourth, was running a loop.

Draw your own conclusions.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

That's actually a pretty scary statement.

TooSlow02

Anyone who says ABS is for people who can't drive obviously never had a deer jump out in front of them in the middle of the night during a hard rain storm. The whole point behind ABS is to allow the driver to retain steering control during a panic stop, not just to allow the shortest possible stopping distances. The ability to steer is pretty useful in avoiding collisions. While it's true that this causes a lot of people to run off the road and hit a tree or drive into a ditch after they've avoided whatever was in the road, that isn't the fault of the ABS. That's just stupidity on the driver's part. Shorter stopping distances are just a side benefit, albeit one which as been proven time and again in testing on the majority of road cars. While it's true that a driver skilled in the art of threshold braking can get shorter stopping distances without ABS on dry pavement, the advantage isn't that impressive. And when the pavement gets wet, ABS wins. ABS also allows a much quicker transition from throttle to full braking. Oh, and I hate to be the one to break this to you, but unless you disabled the ABS completely by unplugging it or pulling the fuses out, the system was assisting you during every test stop you made, wether you think it activated or not. The ABS installed in '98 and up F-bodies has electronic brake proportioning control. And just for reference, most tests of 4th-gen F-bodies resulted in 60-0 braking distances around 120 ft. Some people like ABS, some hate it. But in the end, it does exactly what it's designed to do. If you don't like it, take it out or disable it. Me? I'll keep mine. There's some pretty shitty drivers out there, and I want every advantage I can get to keep my car shiny side up. It also helps keep my 60-0 distance around 110-115 ft on street tires, perfect for hanging my friend with his seatbelt should he start up with his ricer bullshit.

superGMman

Yeah disabling the ABS is stupid. I was talking about cars with my dad and talking about the time we almost got in a crash twice. We almost got killed in the 89 firebird(dads friend) and were saved by a mile with my dads blazer. The blazer actually stopped fast and both events happend on the freeway. By the way my dad is an EXTREMELY good driver. 0 crashes in 40 years of driving.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

Show me one credible statistic that clearly shows ABS systems decrease number of accidents caused. In 10 years I haven't found one. Just a whole bunch of hearsay and theoretical mumbo jumbo about why ABS systems make vehicles safer. One thing I learned a long time ago is that easier and safer are two distinctly different things, and one hardly ever correlates directly to the other.

TooSlow02

Whoa, hang on a second. I never said ABS reduces the number of accidents. Technically it actually increased the number of single car accidents in this country, most of them due to running off the road. What effect it has had on accident numbers as a whole I don't know. As I pointed out before, ABS is designed to give the driver the ability to steer during a panic stop. Period. It allows the driver to maintain control of the vehicle. The problem actually lies in the fact that in many instances the driver isn't prepared to control his vehicle. He nails the brakes and yanks the steering wheel to one side, but doesn't bother to finish steering around the hazard and ends up in a ditch, guard rail, tree/phone pole/light tower, etc. That isn't the fault of the ABS, however. I'm not saying that it's possible to steer your way out of every situation, but if you don't have control then you won't be able to steer yourself out of any situation. If you want hard statistics showing the advantage of ABS, you'll have to look at some from Europe, where all drivers are actually trained to drive. Here they give a license to any moron with a pulse, and it shows in our traffic statistics. I appreciate the advantage ABS gives me in my day to day driving, but it's only an advantage if you're paying attention to your driving in the first place. If you aren't there really isn't anything that can save you besides dumb luck.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

I hear praises and stories all the time of how great ABS is, how many times it's "saved" somebody from an accident, yet in all these years haven't seen a single fact to back any of these stories up. Personally, I can't think of a single incident that I could even say ABS provided a little help with, and I drive my car year round, no stinking winter beater here.

Then again, I spent 10 years driving a car without ABS, without any problems. I've always had the ability to steer during a panic stop. I still stand by my original statement.

TooSlow02

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you're getting away from your original statement that ABS is for people who can't drive. I find ABS useful in certain situations, and I assure you I can drive. You also posted braking distances stating that ABS takes longer to stop, when in fact the ABS was still assisting you even though it wasn't regulating wheel slip. If you want a true comparison disable the system completely and re-test your car.

We can debatethe effect of ABS on traffic statistics all day but the truth is that they're ultimately inconclusive. And what "facts" are you looking for when listening to someone tell you that ABS helped them avoid getting into an accident? Are you waiting for someone to hand you forensic evidence or something? Maybe show you a video with step-by-step commentary? It's pretty clear you don't like ABS, but saying you want to see "proof" that it saved someone doesn't make any sense. Show me proof that it didn't.

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

I've never heard of the F-body ABS system electronically proportioning the brakes. My TA has the 3 channel setup. 1 channel for each front wheel, and one channel for both the rear wheels. If it detects tire lockup on the rear wheels (if either wheel locks up), it engages ABS to the rear wheels. That is NOT the same as electronic proportioning. There is no proportioning in our ABS systems. It's a pulsating setup, valves rapidly opening and closing, and it is ALWAYS quite noticable when it's engaging, even on just the rear wheels. Our ABS system is not some advanced active control system available on some of todays higher end, more expensive vehicles, and I know even some of those are noticable when engaged (I've driven a Z06 through an AutoX course, the one stipulation was I left ACS and TCS on).

Burden of proof is on the system itself as well, not to make this sound like some court system or anything, but what you're saying is akin to the turbonator makers saying prove their product doesn't do the things they claim it does.

IF all these claims of ABS systems getting people out of sticky situations really did have any validity to them, then the accident statistics should show some support.

Accident statistics will do just fine. If ABS really is helping people avoid accidents, then accident statistics will support those claims. None of the stats I've seen do support those claims. Either it helps avoid accidents, or it doesn't. If it doesn't help avoid accidents, then what is it helping with?

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I can verify it helps race tires last a lot longer if you are running soft Hoosier A3S04's. I'm not sure you can find statistics to prove it, but I'm sure ABS has prevented some accidents in slick road conditons.

TooSlow02

As an employee of BMW, rest assured I am well aware of how this and other ABS systems operate, as well as the stability control systems found in most if not all high-line models (hell, even Hyundai has one with it). Some of these "active control systems" you speak of are actually nearly identical to the systems in F-bodies with the exception of a few sensors and different software. As of 1998 model year ALL F-bodies are equipped with Bosch 5.1/5.3 anti-lock braking with optional traction control. Never heard of electronic proportioning on an F-body? Now you have. One of the features of this system is electronic brake proportioning. Unlike mechanical proportioning valves, the system sends full line pressure to the rear brakes until it detects wheel slip. Then it goes into regulation. Don't believe me? Then just show everyone where the proportioning valve is. (and no, there isn't one in the hydraulic valveblock. There's just solenoid valves and the return pump in there.) Better yet, disable the system and go test your car like I suggested before. You'll find that the rear brakes lock well before the fronts do. And there are more than a few auto-x and road racers that can attest to this. You could also measure the pressure front and rear. It will be the same. The system is designed to prevent underbraking the rear and promote more even front to rear brake pad wear (the front don't wear quite as quickly). And yes, that IS how electronic proportioning works. The ABS runs the show. It operates exactly the same in our $25,000 F-bodies as it does in a $130,000 BMW. You can look some of this information up on Bosch's automotive website.

Actually, the burden of proof would be on the accuser, which is you. Every major car company offers anti-lock brakes of some sort. Which means that there are a great many engineers who know so much more about vehicle dynamics than you do saying that these control systems can save lives and make road driving safer. These systems make cars a lot more expensive to design and produce, which car companies don't like. And they aren't required by the federal government to be installed on every vehicle like airbags are. So why do they do it? Because these systems do exactly what they're designed to do, and by doing that it helps the driver get out of more sticky situations than he would be able to get out of by himself. Christ, even the insurance companies know it works, which is why you get a discount for having ABS. You think they would give up money for free?

If there's one thing I've learned through dealing with corporate bullshit is that statistics are ultimately inconclusive because you can get them to say anything you want. All you have to do is put a different spin on it by looking at the same thing in a different way. Will they show a decrease in the number of total accidents? I doubt it. But there aren't any statistics on the accidents that were avoided, because they never happened. All you get is one of those stories that you refuse to believe because they don't have any proof. Which is exactly my point: how do you know? What proof could you see? And of those cars that do get into accidents, how could you possibly know exactly what happened? Even the drivers might not know, and they were there. The VAST majority of accidents is because of driver error. But if you get loaded and pass out on the way home and get in an accident, how would the ABS help? Total accident number will always be rising, because there are more panicky untrained dumb-asses let loose on our roads every year. People drive drunk, tired, upset, sick, injured, angry, etc. All of these things affect the way people drive. If you aren't paying attention, nothing is going to help you.

It does help avoid accidents. There are hundreds of thousands of people who can attest to this, because it helped them out of a sticky spot. You don't believe them of course, because they don't have any statistics to back up their story, but they know it. Yes, many people with driver's licenses can't drive worth a ****, but if a total moron can benefit from dynamic safety systems, imagine what it can do for a good driver. There is no statistic for accidents avoided. If there's 2%-3% more accidents this year than last year, is it because ABS is useless, or because there's 10% more drivers this year than last? What statistic is going to show the effectiveness of ABS? You're asking for a statistic that doesn't exist.

BillS

iTrader: (13)

The ABS unit is also the prop valve. People who pull the ABS usially add a manual valve to the rear line as the Fbody has rear brakes that are way stronger than the average car compared to its fronts. I have see autox cars with the fuse pulled and the rear locks up way before the fronts. The front are the ones doing the stopping so they modulate the pedel and threshold brake. The fact is that they are leaving braking on the table as the fronts are not near max when the rears lock up.
I am personally a fan of ABS, but I wish It was a bit better. The " ice" mode that cuts all braking force on a f-body sucks, and while I find it hard to activate, it still scares the SH%t out of you when it does. I also remember Sam Strano was having it activate in his LS1 a few years ago.