Ok, here's where I'm at right now. My suspension is stock, and I'd like to change it. I'll be driving the car everyday (til I get a new beater) but I'd like to have a smooth ride, not harsh or spongy. Having it feel like it were on rails sounds good, but I'm not sure if that's for me, but I would like to take corners well. I'm not looking to autocross, but someday soon, I'd like go and try the 1/4 mile. I'll be picking up some G2 Super Springs soon.

Pros and Cons, impressions of each type of suspension upgrade would be appreciated.

 

I'll make this simple.. If you are going to have G2 springs, you want Koni's to control the rates at both ends of the car. The 4th gen rear shocks have more oomph at the top end, and are better suited to big rear springs. Also, you can adjust them very quickly and finely. The 3rd gen's are good, but have to be removed for adjustment, and offer just 4 positions. We use those as a cost effective measure for some folks. The first damping choice are the 4th gen shocks, front and rear.

 

It's really up to you in the end, however my 2 cents:

I feel that if you are able to spend the money on both 4G front and rear Koni's combined with Ground control coil-over sleeves, you might have more adjustments to work with, which could be good or bad (if you really don't like that kind of work for fine tuning), however the intial money spent on convenient features really allow for much more ease of adjustment.

I'm pretty sure that G2 springs are definitely good stuff (not completely sure as I went all the way with the G2 custom coil-over), however with ground control, you have not only the option of height adjustment, but also the option of selecting other coil-over springs of the same length and diameter, but different manufacturer and spring rates, therefore, not just limited to purchasing "OEM perch replacement" springs.

 

Well, I guess that settles it, I'll get 4th gen front and rears...Now if only there were a GP. At any rate, I'll put this into my wish list, thanks Sam

 

There won't be a GP, at least not from me, and if there is it won't last. Koni mandates their product sells for 30% off retail, and they watch. Basically, there is a fair market value and those that undercut it aren't look upon favorably by Koni.

 

The 4th gen Konis are worth every penny anyhow...

 

You need to clearify your poll choices, they don't make sense.
3rd gen Koni up front is not an option as they don't fit.
The 3rd gen koni rear has to be removed to adjust and only real racers will want to do that.
Are these Koni's the SA or the DA?
Bilsteins in the front revalved and regular on the rear? That's the most common situation.
Ground Coil Over (LG Motorsports)? Is that the real LG coilovers for about $2200? Why did you use the word "Ground"? Do you mean the Ground Control coilover conversions for about $425?
It's all very confusing.

Also there is not going to be one magic combo of parts, budgets play a roll as well as what the person is planning to do with the car. So many variables.

I'll tell you this, a good compromise in price vs performance as well as having lots of adjustabilty would be the Koni SA 4th gens combined with the Ground Control springs.

 

I see, well, then it shoots to the top of my list You'll be getting a PM from me soon, just need to get funds and the list together. Hopefully, I can get everything in one crack.

 

I have G2 springs with HD's front and rear. It is a firm ride and I wish I would have gotten the Koni's for the front now. I daily drive mine and dont have a problem, no drag or auto-x racing.

 

I too have the LGM "Hypercoils" & the Bilstien HD's... coupled with LG sway's front/rear, LCAs,APHR,...

Have had this system for 4 years now...

My car has 192K on it....
IMO.. you can't beat it for the $$$...

 

If you ask anyone who's had HD's with springs like the G2's, and then replaced them wtih a more appropriate shock, you'll find that there is a LOT of room for improvement.

How can a shock valved for stock springs (292f, 115r) be expected to damp springs that are not only a LOT higher in rate, but also shorter on effective travel in which the shocks have the chance to work? BTW, in this instance with G2 springs we're talking 550f, 170-220 ish rears.

Don't have to believe me, but maybe you should believe Bilstein who says that HD's are *not suitable* for lowered cars.... Then further realize that SLP speced a firmer valving for their shocks for use with their springs that are much softer than the springs being discussed here.

Shocks are spring dampers. If the spring rate goes up you need more damping to control that. If the spring rate doens't change, but the travel is shortened by lowering, you need more damping to do the job within less space. If you up the rate AND shorten the travel, you need even MORE damping to control both parameters. HD's are not that.

You might well be happy with what you have, or think you are. But the minute you experience a set of shocks with proper valving to do the job, you'd change you mind. MHO.

 

Sam would suggest single or double adjustable Koni's with G2's

 

SA's would be just fine. I find the bump adjustment to be of not much use in general and even less on a street car. I own a set of DA's, but they are spares and live on a shelf while the car has SA's on it. If that's anything to go on.

Of course I'd be happy to sell you more expensive shocks if you'd prefer.

 

Untill I could justify $800 for Koni's for my G2 springs, I would have to ride in a car with them. LG says they designed the G2's around the Bilstein HD.

 

I'm sure that's the marketing line... After all, it sounds good to say that your whiz-bang springs are meant to work with a readily available, inexpensive shock.

Unfortunately, Bilstein who makes the actual shock says they are not suitable for lowered cars. And lowered cars have higher rate springs and shorter travel not matter what springs are used, be they G2's or Hotchkis, Eibach and so on. Shocks are spring dampers. If your springs are higher rate, they need more damping than the HD's were designed to handle. You can't, no matter what the marketing is, make a high-rate spring act to the damper like a low-rate spring.

What if I told you that I designed a 315 tire to work on a stock 17x9" wheel? You wouldn't buy that because you know a 315 can't be shoehorned onto a 9" wheel and work properly. Same thing..... IMHO.

And if you find anyone who's had both HD's and Koni's on their lowered cars (even find folks how had both on NON-lowered cars), you'll see there is a huge difference in the way they work. Of course you'll get many who say HD's are fine, because they have them and think they are fine, but they have nothing to compare to because they haven't run better shocks. It's all relative.....

I'll also add that you'll find first specially valved DeCarbon's, then Koni's were installed on 1LE's which have springs that are nowhere near as high in rate *and* have more travel in which to do their work. Both of which require less damping than the G2 rates, yet GM who's historically cheap with things put better dampers, and they didn't use Bilstein either. Funny since GM and Bilstein have a relationship... Z71 trucks, Z51 and Z07 Vettes, Trailblazers, Tahoes, etc..... That again should tell you something.

FWIW.

 

I understand that this thread is a poll, and so far the I agree with the some of the consensus, however I'd like to warn along a similar line that it can be easy for a majority to name brands and say how good or bad they are, and while there is some truth to that, the truth is down to the engineering of the product that is desired.

Bascially, if you have any doubts, consider this:
http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvd.html

 

G2 springs and KONI D.A.s make one hell of a nice ride.
Hawk

 

Sam, your website says that the prices are being updated. What is the current price on 4th gen Koni SA all around?

 

I voted in your poll for Koni 4/4's. I'd like to add a few things to hopefully save you some time and trouble.
#1) I would listen to Sam since he knows what he's talking about and is not concerned with just making a simple sale out of the deal. Who would recommend Koni SA's (less expensive) over the DA's (more expensive) if they were just looking for pure profit? I spoke with Sam over the phone about my setup and he saved me a good deal of money and a lot of trouble. I was thinking about getting Koni DA's and after speaking with Sam I decided on the SA's. So right there I saved ~$450 or so and I'm definitely on a budget.
#2) From my personal experience I have driven a friends car (95' Trans Am) that has the stock shocks and BMR springs. Absolutely terrible IMO and when you hit a bump your teeth chatter and it feels like you just got a punch to the kidney.
#3) I came to the realization that Koni SA's aren't exactly cheap, but many times I believe you get what you pay for and in this case when it comes to the Koni SA's 4/4 setup it's worth saving for and is worth every penny IMHO. I think they generally run about ~$825 + shipping for the set brand new.
#4) The Koni's will give you a much better (smoother) ride until you hit a bump or something to that effect. However, by no means does it hurt your kidneys or deliver teeth chatter when you hit a bump in the road. Remember your driving a sports car. These days many sports cars come lower to the ground than a 4th gen f-body. Try to take a ride in something like that and hit a bump and see how it feels. It should be stiff, but at the same time liveable and I believe that Koni's deliver that kind of performance for our cars.

What I wanted out of my car is a focus on excellent handling and a good ride. IMHO Koni SA's 4/4 delivered just that and their performance is beyond my expectations...they are worth every penny hands down. Maybe you should post a thread to see if there is anyone in your area (Hawaii, must be nice ) that has Koni's and would be willing to take you for a ride or let you drive their car to get a feel for them. That's just an idea if your trying to make your mind up or justify spending ~$800+ on a set of shocks. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks, I'm going to get Konis 4/4, as well as G2 Super Springs, but Sam's site says the prices are being updated. Just waiting for the final word