SCREAMIN01SS

Whats the story with subframe connectors? are they any good? which ones are good, bad etc???

meatfoam

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion subframe connectors are must have items. They considerably reduce twisting of the frame, resulting in all around improved handling of the car.
There is several types you can get. Some are just bolted in, you can forget about those. Weld-in SFCs are the way to go.
Again: A very, very beneficial addition to your car!!!

black01_WS6

iTrader: (13)

the bmr subframe connectors are very good. get the boxed ones and they will hide up underneath

SPEEDYws6

iTrader: (9)

They will hide pretty good on a TA, but not on a Camaro. Still a must have though, I have been ptting mine off long enough and they will be installed before I go back to the track.

SCREAMIN01SS

Who makes the best brand and best price??? I'm not worried baout hiding them. I juts want the best

SPEEDYws6

iTrader: (9)

I had BMR's on my other car, they are good quality. I ordered UMI's this time because of the price and quality seems just as good judging from pics.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

In that case, I would recomend SLP. They've got to be the stiffest ones out there.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

SLPs are 3 point design and are $100 more than a 2 point design.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

What exactly do you plan on doing with your car? I can tell you right now that contrary to this forum's consensus, SFC's aren't an absolute requirement. I can see that they're needed for drag racing, however there is a debate to whether they're needed for AX, RR, or for the matter aggressive street driving.

I have had my f-body used from 37K. I Installed 2-point SFC's @ 57K, no noticeable difference, even though I have T-tops. @62K, I installed a set of New Dampers (specifically Koni DA's) and most of the weird noises when hitting bumps went away. @64K, I upgraded most of my suspension bushings with higher durometre rubber bushings (1LE), and even more wierd noises went away. @~78K I installed KBDD 3-point connectors, and there was no reduction in NVH, and no added performance benefits. @103K, I removed the SFC's, and guess what? Still no change. I'd also like to note that I have a total of ~40K on RR practice on the same vehicle before, during, and after the subframe connectors, and the Current milage is @117K. I have yet to see any reduction in chassis rigidity.

I do believe that the monocoque for the 4th gens might possibly twist heavily down it's middle, however I have yet to experience that on my vehicle.

Point is, depending on vehicle use and intial quality of the monocoque, I wouldn't be in a particular rush to install SFC's. FWIW, SFC's might help, but they can also be a placebo mod.

SCREAMIN01SS

Its funny how every time I inquire about a part, there are drasticly different opinions. My car is not a daily driver. Its my med-budget project. 36K miles on it. I ran it a few times in San Diego and when I would shift into 2nd, I could feel some twisting, not too much cause I wasn't heavily modded, but enough to feel it. Anyways, I welcome any and all suggestions. Future mods will be... 9" with 4:11s the ATI procharger, then I will go from there and see...........

Steve0

I agree with Foxxton.

I installed UMI SFC's on my '95 Z28 when it had a bout 96,000 miles on it. I barely noticed any difference in the car's characteristics. No rattles disappeared, and the car just seemd marginally more ridgid... it was probably mostly in my head. The biggest benefit I gained from installing them was the ability to lift either half of the car by using hte SFC's as a jacking point. Upgrading the shocks to bilsteins on the other hand in combination with upgrading to a 32mm sway made a huge difference in how the car handled.

From my experience, I think the difference in chassis stiffness is more in peoples heads than reality... kind of like how people claim with their butt dynos that they can feels 5hp gains on their 350hp cars. I've even seen various posts by Strano who most people refer to as a F-body suspension expert testifying that SFC's are't necessarily all that theyre made out to be.

If youre building a high hp drag car, then yeah I could see SFC's being beneficial... but for a street car I think its definately a debatable modification

BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

Keeping the dimples from forming on the rear quarter panals is a good reason to have them as well. That alone shows you they are needed, unless you drive it like a grandma all the time.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Oh yes, the rear quarter panel dimples will still develop, even with heavy duty subframe connectors. They're an inherent part of the factory design of where the rear shock mounts are placed. I have even witnesses other F-bodies with SFC's and the dimples as well.

2002_TAWS6

Well can you tell me if SFC are useful in my case?

I go thru some curves and twists in the road on a daily basis and its hard to drive fast there (let alone haul ***). The car seems to throw its weight everywhere while i drive thru the curves with turns and/or twists. So my concern is neither on drag racing & autocrossing but spirited street driving without body roll limitations when on curves.

I do have a cam and bolt on setup with a built rearend so rattles do exist to me. Would those rattles go away? From what i noticed after all the modding is that adding more aftermarket parts adds more rattles haha.

The last thing i want to do is spend alot (let alone welding stuff) and not notice a difference.

2002_TAWS6

Also, how big of a difference is there from 2 point and 3 point designed SFC? Maybe if some say they felt no difference on SFC they should of went with the 3 point design?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I noticed from your list that you use aftermarket trailing arms and phb. If you are using poly, then you should replace them with some sort of Higher durometre rubber bushings. Poly binds way too much in those areas and can worsen your handling. Not to overdo it, but if you search on this board, the area where tubular/boxed mild steel/chromoly trailing arms will help is with dedicated drag racing. Some sponsors will have a cow for me saying this, but there is mostly added weight when using these types of arms for anything else. Tubular PHB's are okay.

Now for some more questions. What kind of dampers are you using, and are they properly matched with the respective spring rates? Also, how big are your sway bars and are they properly matched? Improvement in these areas will dramatically improve handling, and not SFC's. If you're riding on cheap or worn dampers, then any road vibrations will be transferred well into the chassis, as one of the damper's duties are supposed to dampen excessive and sometimes dangerous road shocks.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Yep, and I was one of those who did that. Look at some of the SFC threads here and you will see where I mention how neither 2-point or 3 point SFC's improved the NVH qualities, chassis stiffness, nor handling. Some will say they do, however unless they further substantiate what they've done with the vehicle performance and modification, I'd rule the efficacy of their SFC's as placebo mod. Not trying to flame but I'd like to see more detail on how what they really do to improve the vehicles' reliability and performance.

The place where 3-point SFC's will help is an application where a floor mounted torque arm is used, since the force has been transferred from the transmission mount to the floorpan.

2002_TAWS6

Foxxton, thanks for the signature attention and the great reply!

Yes I am using poly bushing for me LCAs and I sure hate them. Only reason i got them was because my installer told me its waaaaay better and i argued its waaaay more squeaky on speed bumps. He argued it wouldnt be squeakier and unfortunately i believed him with regret now.

1) Are "Higher durometre rubber bushings" better than the stock OEM bushings? links would be nice.

2) As for the shocks and springs they are both stock WS6 stuff. If I recall correctly, someone called them "De Garbage". I have about 52K miles on the car now and I will do the following before I purchase anything: check all bushings. Controls arms, swaybar links and bushings, panhard rod. Check the tie rod ends. Also the shock mounting points as well.

3) If I understand you correctly, you are saying that most of the body roll and the 'unbalance' is more subjected to the bad/worn out shocks rather than lacking more chassis stifness (SFC). It does seem to make perfect logical sense . BUT when i found out that Koni DA's go for $700-800 I wanted to believe that my set of shocks are fine . Did you purchase all four or just 2?

According to other forum members, they stated the following about SFC which made me really want them! :

I would like to have the above stated advantages. I have seen so many people advise of SFC its becoming the # 1 bolt on mod. However, thanks to your explanation as I now I see that rigidty does not necessarly mean that my body roll problem would go away nor that stability (and handling) would increase as most body roll problems (in my case) consider the UPs and DOWN forces on my car...

So now i realized if i really want all my problems to go away not only would it cost the "cheap" SFC but shocks as well. $1,000 in parts for suspension? Sure! .... but not when im planning to sell the car in 6 months or surely less than a year. Damn it Ill have to drive like grandma now... how much are the stock shocks for? Worth it? or not?

Thanks for the reality check Foxxton. You just saved me on my car insurance by switching to stocko

2002_TAWS6

now that i realized my springs are stock and my ride is not lowered it makes no sense to purchase adjustable shocks if i will never end up adjusting them. Im guess there are good non adjustable shocks better than stock stuff?

EDIT: just found nonadjustable bilstein shocks on SLP for $400

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

1) I'm not too sure if you remember GM's 1LE option, but in essence they were the factory stamped metal parts with harder rubber bushings, basically the rubber "fills" the whole bushing fitting, as opposed to the star shaped bushings that have the tiny "voids" in them. I'm not too sure that the bushings are alone readily available. I imagine they are, however the full stamped parts should be, but that's more money spent. If it were me, I'd spend the money on the bushings if not the full parts, since they are cheaper than most of the aftermarket stuff. Here is a website with the part #s of the "whole parts."

http://www.1le.net/ once there, click on part #'s and scroll to 1998-1999 (pretty much the same parts if you have a 2000-2002)

If you perform a search on this website, there is another, probably more comperhensive list you can go by. I'm not too sure where you can get just the bushings themselves.

2) Actually that was me. I know it will come back to bite me somehow, but It's comforting to know that my *** won't be ate up by dookie shocks, but rather what I have now (a very expensive, but well handling coil-over setup). IMHO, Koni's would be a desireable choice, but that's not my place to state what someone should do with their budget. After checking all that you stated previously, then I suppose you could consider Koni SA's, however there are cheaper options with Bilstein HD or Bilstein revalves. If you should choose new shocks, make sure you have them valved properly with whatever springs used and their respective spring rates. My advice would be to consult with some of the sponsors on this board before sinking some hard earned greenbacks.

3) Basically you're right. Shock design, spring rate, swaybar diametre, and bushing quality have a much greater effect on handling than bracing an already sturdy chassis. If I had to do it all over again, I would go through all of the above, then if I decided I really needed SFC's, I would go for something that was light, reliable, and performed it's exact function, and no more.