View Poll Results: Which SFC's are you using?
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SFC's Bolt-on vs Weld
02-23-2006, 09:07 AM
#121
Originally Posted by Foxxton
OUCH! 
I know that you have discussed this over at FRRAX, but you're actually going to do what I did too?
I know that you have discussed this over at FRRAX, but you're actually going to do what I did too?
Originally Posted by Foxxton
I know that you know what you're doing, it's just that I noticed that you're getting ready to ORR, and I certainly haven't done that with my colleague in his testing. I'll keep a watch over there.
Originally Posted by Foxxton
BTW, regardless of this thread's life, it's time for me to retire from here and seek political asylum to enter FRRAX. 
03-18-2006, 02:51 AM
#122
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Originally Posted by Foxxton
Not to be sarcastic, but why do you desire any SFC's? From the mods you listed, you won't benefit much at all, except a lighter wallet and a heavier car. The 4th gen chassis is already very stiff from the factory, except under extremely severe conditions (which at that point call for a full roll cage and other safety equipment).
You mention dealership, so it seems that you want to still have some service connections with them and not to heavily modify your vehicle.
Contrary to the consensus here on the board, SFC's don't really do much for the vehicle, especially for the money. Just to let you know I have a T-top and have tried them and haven't benefited from any of the 3 types I've tried, and my setup is one that many are always arguing that it needs, but not mine so far.
The dimples, I've inspected mine exhaustively and see none. Many dimples are probably already on the vehicle to begin with and I saw many new ones with them as well.
If you're not comfortable with the noises, go right to the source:
1. shocks, the decarbon's are horrible so look into an alternative.
2. inspect all bushings and mounts, and replace as needed.
3. Do you feel as if there is too much body sway? look into a newer set of stabiliser bars.
4. Check your interior for any loose parts and check for any loose foreign objects (toys and toy parts, loose currency, old cargo and their loose and broken parts).
You mention dealership, so it seems that you want to still have some service connections with them and not to heavily modify your vehicle.
Contrary to the consensus here on the board, SFC's don't really do much for the vehicle, especially for the money. Just to let you know I have a T-top and have tried them and haven't benefited from any of the 3 types I've tried, and my setup is one that many are always arguing that it needs, but not mine so far.
The dimples, I've inspected mine exhaustively and see none. Many dimples are probably already on the vehicle to begin with and I saw many new ones with them as well.
If you're not comfortable with the noises, go right to the source:
1. shocks, the decarbon's are horrible so look into an alternative.
2. inspect all bushings and mounts, and replace as needed.
3. Do you feel as if there is too much body sway? look into a newer set of stabiliser bars.
4. Check your interior for any loose parts and check for any loose foreign objects (toys and toy parts, loose currency, old cargo and their loose and broken parts).
I bought my BMR SFCs for like 100 bucks and welded them in myself, one of the best bang for the buck mods I ever did. Not quite sure why you are anti-SFC
03-18-2006, 03:24 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by Strahley
I bought my BMR SFCs for like 100 bucks and welded them in myself, one of the best bang for the buck mods I ever did. Not quite sure why you are anti-SFC
03-21-2006, 08:08 PM
#124
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Sorry if I am repeating something already said in this huge thread, I didn't feel like reading every post
One thing to know is if you plan on doing SCCA racing that SFCs bump you into street modified class which if you plan on competiting, you will have to be either really good or lucky to win.
I have the boxed SFCs on my car. When mixed with the craftsman 2ton jack, you can lift the whole side of your car up from the subframes without breaking a sweat
I also don't know if these cars really twist on the ttop models, but I would go with the road race guys' advice since they probably put the most stress on the car. I think the SFCs have a placebo effect on people when they first get them installed.
I also installed a STB after I already had a 35mm front bar, 21mm rear, stock shocks, springs, and SFCs. The STB did nothing for the feel of the car but it looks cool!
One thing to know is if you plan on doing SCCA racing that SFCs bump you into street modified class which if you plan on competiting, you will have to be either really good or lucky to win.
I have the boxed SFCs on my car. When mixed with the craftsman 2ton jack, you can lift the whole side of your car up from the subframes without breaking a sweat
I also don't know if these cars really twist on the ttop models, but I would go with the road race guys' advice since they probably put the most stress on the car. I think the SFCs have a placebo effect on people when they first get them installed.
I also installed a STB after I already had a 35mm front bar, 21mm rear, stock shocks, springs, and SFCs. The STB did nothing for the feel of the car but it looks cool!
03-22-2006, 11:45 PM
#125
My question is this, I really like the idea of the SLP 3pts.. They seem like they would be the strongest of all that I have seen, am I wrong in this conclusion? Second I will most likely be going with the bolt-ins as the car is stock and I plan on doing exhaust mods in the near future. Does this sound like a reasonable conclusion to everyone else?
Edit: My t-tops already leak
Edit: My t-tops already leak
04-24-2006, 09:43 PM
#126
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Foxxtron, Cal, and Sam Strano(from linked threads)...thanks a ton. You especially Foxxtron.
I previously owned a 3rd gen with larger diameter roll bars, shocks, and lowering springs, poly bushings, and a 3 point STB. Noticed a great improvment in handling, but after 130,000 miles I had misaligned panels, sticking doors, leaky T-tops, etc. Always regretted not having SFC's.
I had wanted to avoid the problems of my third gen this and the majority of the testimonials on this site had led me to believe SFC's would be the place to go first on my 4th gen.
After reading this thread and learning how much more torsional rigidity is inherent in the 4th gens I will be putting my money into the suspenion and not chasis upgrades.
You guys patiently and informatively laid out extremely detailed and reasoned arguments explaining why chasis modification should come second to suspension modification, and why some people seeing benifits from SFC's are actually only putting a "band aid" over their real problems.
Your arguments make a lot of sense, and after reading them(and knowing of the 4th gens superior chasis) it seems hard not to come to the very conclusions you are reaching. It took a while to read all of those links, but with some basic knowldege of how cars work, and your guys arguments, I'm glad I took the time.
I previously owned a 3rd gen with larger diameter roll bars, shocks, and lowering springs, poly bushings, and a 3 point STB. Noticed a great improvment in handling, but after 130,000 miles I had misaligned panels, sticking doors, leaky T-tops, etc. Always regretted not having SFC's.
I had wanted to avoid the problems of my third gen this and the majority of the testimonials on this site had led me to believe SFC's would be the place to go first on my 4th gen.
After reading this thread and learning how much more torsional rigidity is inherent in the 4th gens I will be putting my money into the suspenion and not chasis upgrades.
You guys patiently and informatively laid out extremely detailed and reasoned arguments explaining why chasis modification should come second to suspension modification, and why some people seeing benifits from SFC's are actually only putting a "band aid" over their real problems.
Your arguments make a lot of sense, and after reading them(and knowing of the 4th gens superior chasis) it seems hard not to come to the very conclusions you are reaching. It took a while to read all of those links, but with some basic knowldege of how cars work, and your guys arguments, I'm glad I took the time.
Much thanks! 
05-07-2006, 02:22 AM
#128
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don't forget to thank the other AXer's, RRer's, and some of the highly knowledgable engineers around here as well. If you consider Koni's, you should talk to Sam Strano.
Last edited by Foxxtron; 05-07-2006 at 03:30 AM.
05-07-2006, 12:36 PM
#129
Subframes here.....much better. Rattles went away and my car also creaked when pulling into the driveway. Not anymore. Car "FEELS" better and tighter when driving, but before Foxxtron can jump in here, I'll go ahead and say it. It's my imagination and of course, the "PLACEBO" effect.
05-07-2006, 12:43 PM
#130
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Actually, it's not your imagination, however you probably experienced a placebo effect, meaning that what you think you're feeling isn't what's really happening. AFA the NVH, it's really more from the shocks and loose interior, and the feeling of supposedly being "tighter" is most likely more weight on very soft shocks, which is what I did as well when I had every set of SFC's.
This other thread (which some here have chimed in as well) has extended this subject in great detail, plus Sam Strano chimes in as well as some other members who work as engineers.
Towards the end is where things get much more objective and interesting: https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/498683-subframe-connectors-overhyped-worth.html
EDIT: BTW, for those who mention they have Bilsteins, your shocks aren't bad, but most likely their vavlings (if they're revalved by someone who doesn't give good specs). Apparently, the SLP bilsteins decide to remove the compression, which is really a bad thing to do with the stock suspension configuration on these vehicles.
This other thread (which some here have chimed in as well) has extended this subject in great detail, plus Sam Strano chimes in as well as some other members who work as engineers.
Towards the end is where things get much more objective and interesting: https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/498683-subframe-connectors-overhyped-worth.html
EDIT: BTW, for those who mention they have Bilsteins, your shocks aren't bad, but most likely their vavlings (if they're revalved by someone who doesn't give good specs). Apparently, the SLP bilsteins decide to remove the compression, which is really a bad thing to do with the stock suspension configuration on these vehicles.
Last edited by Foxxtron; 05-07-2006 at 12:56 PM.
05-07-2006, 01:44 PM
#131
That's all well and good, but I know what I experienced first-hand and it certainly wasn't my imagination. My father-in-law is a car guru as well and he rides in my car maybe twice a year. He even felt the difference and he is anything but an LS1 enthusiast. It was night and day difference. I'll never be convinced otherwise and I'll continue to suggest this mod to anyone who wants my opinion. I believe it to be worthwhile and I am very happy with my weight-adding decision. It certainly hasn't affected my 1/4 mile performance.
To the original poster: I forgot to mention that mine are boxed weld-in. I think bolt-in are fine, but these were the option that best fit my needs and budget.
To the original poster: I forgot to mention that mine are boxed weld-in. I think bolt-in are fine, but these were the option that best fit my needs and budget.
05-07-2006, 02:01 PM
#132
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I am much more than a car guru, and yes, there is a difference between placebo and imagination. please be careful before calling my name. if you have an opinion, fine, just leave my name out of it.
05-07-2006, 02:14 PM
#133
I don't doubt that you are a car guru and more......it's just that the fella who started this thread asked a simple question and I was amazed at all the BS that I had to read through just to get to the next empty block so I could tell him "MY" opinion. You have made yours abundantly clear and then some...and none of it was relavent to his original question which I believe was bolt-on or weld-in? All I know is that they worked for me and did exactly what I hoped they would. When you post up as much crap as you have, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls your name.
05-07-2006, 02:18 PM
#134
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and if you noticed, I stick with my findings as a AXer and RR and leave other's names out. BTW, it isn't crap, placebo effects are. And the guy mentioned a dealership. That's why I mentioned that. The real crap is all of this "feel" that people mention and all of the silly dimples and T-top stories. Sam, Cal, mitchntx, trackbird all have much more experience with this as well.
Again, stick to your opinion and leave my name out.
Again, stick to your opinion and leave my name out.
05-07-2006, 02:20 PM
#135
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I have BMR boxed weld-in, no complaints so far! The only downside I see to them is that they do make the ride slightly harsher, but nothing wanting to make me remove them. I bought my car with 30,000miles on it, and it had zero problems. I got the subframes to keep the zero problems, especially once I start going to thetrack.
05-07-2006, 02:20 PM
#136
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Originally Posted by 99Hawk262
I don't doubt that you are a car guru and more......it's just that the fella who started this thread asked a simple question and I was amazed at all the BS that I had to read through just to get to the next empty block so I could tell him "MY" opinion. You have made yours abundantly clear and then some...and none of it was relavent to his original question which I believe was bolt-on or weld-in? All I know is that they worked for me and did exactly what I hoped they would. When you post up as much crap as you have, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls your name.
You are not kidding---JEEZ.. FOXXTRON...oh, I'm sorry..." Car Guru "..
05-07-2006, 02:23 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by Foxxtron
In all due respect, you should do so as well, with your Monroes.
you are one funny guy with all YOUR opinions, but do not want to let others give theirs.... 
all F-Bodies should have either a cage or SFC's...period...
05-07-2006, 02:26 PM
#139
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I have no problems with their's. The real problem is that there are those who aren't really looking at what's working or not. BTW, Sam is trying to tell you something NHRAMAN. I have no problem with opinions, but mere opinions aren't real fact.
BTW, I would like to see you pull this stuff over here: www.frrax.com.
Also, any driving, especially AX and RR is "real-world" driving.
BTW, I would like to see you pull this stuff over here: www.frrax.com.
Also, any driving, especially AX and RR is "real-world" driving.
05-07-2006, 02:27 PM
#140
Wow, we have thousands of people on this site who are just "feeling" something that doesn't really exist. I think our gimmick is up boys. We were discovered. Now everyone knows that all along we were simply trying to see how many people would really fall for the SFC trick. Damn, we had one hell of a run!