BirdmanLS1

iTrader: (3)

Ok so i am trying to get a kit with complete control over ride heigth, and stiffness... Will the LG coil over kit with Koni SA's give me the ability to do this? This is the kit im talkin about.... http://www.lmperformance.com/824/1.html

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Where are you going with the vehicle? From what you said, in all due respect, you ought to read this:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...+coil-over+kit

FWIW, mentioning if the LG coil-over kit fitted with Koni SA's speaks that you have much to learn about the product. The Koni SA's (8241) that people are using here WILL NOT fit to the LG kit.

The coil-overs that fit the 8241 Koni's are usually two of these:

Ground control and/or Global West.

The Koni SA is probably your best improvement. AFA spending money on any coil-overs, be prepared for some bigger expenses and headache to come if you want to "just improve things for the street."

Here's a nearly identical thread dealing with this:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/507760-best-coil-overs-gw-etc.html

The real problem with the whole "coil-over" market is that it targets a crowd that's vulnerable to purchasing "neato" items. When they get them on the car, they go strictly by feel, and that's not the way to tell if the CO's are improving handling or not.

Given their adjustibility, you must have access to two things:

1. a closed circuit course and some type of timing equipment that can accurately record lap times.
2. corner-weight plates, which will indeed be costly.

Coil-over kits are great to just being okay for serious track competition, but are an absolute overkill and a gimmick for any type of aggressive street driving. The Koni SA itself will give you the best return for your money, while coil-over kits will lead to frustrations and very large holes in the pockets. It's also not a good idea to go too low for many obvious reasons.

BirdmanLS1

iTrader: (3)

ok...the whole point of me making this thread is trying to find out information... i know i need to learn alot about suspension... I have tried starting threads before and getting information i wanted but never could... I just want a setup that will enable me to adjust ride height... i know that lowering a car isnt a good idea the hard way... I bought some eibach sportlines on my stock shocks which lowered it 2 inches and i lost soooo much traction... I then installed some QTP LT headers and their y pipe so i have alot of clearance issues. I made this thread cause i want to know what the best spring/shock combo is that will enable me to adjust ride height. I dont even really care about the best, or the $$ im gonna have to put in... I just want to know what will give me the adjustability of ride height. Will ground control paired with Koni SA's or DA's give me this ability? I only pointed out the LG kit cause that seems to be the only product out there with ride height adjustability... so can anyone tell me a good setup of shocks/springs that will give me ride height adjustability? Besides air suspension...

rgaynor85

i beleieve the ground control is adjustable

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I think you ought to call Sam strano.

Again, adjustibility for height isn't your problem. It's the super low, super soft sportlines combined with stock shocks.

dailydriver

The LG setup is a complete deal, with it's own Bilstein alloy body threaded dampers (approx. valved to Lou's World Challenge specs), with some (lbs./inch) choice of 2.5" Hyperco springs. Waaaaayyyyyy too much overkill for most street use and absolute DEATH to your 60' if you plan on drag strip action. Besides being more than TWICE the $$ of a GC/Koni SA setup. As has been stated, TALK TO SAM, but the Koni SAs with the GC coilover conversion is not a bad setup, and I'm going to disagree with Foxxtron (the first time I've ever done this!!) and say it can be streetable (with said Konis), even in an area with poor roads!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

dailydriver, it's not the fact that they can't be streetable, they certainly can (especially since they're on my street car as well) however, it's the fact that for the money invovled, there is a lot more to coil-overs than ride height alone and Cg alone.

The two most forgotten aspects to why coil-overs are useful is...

cornerweighting and crossweighting, and if no shop has the equipement for it, the equipment to accomplish that will run from 900 - 1200 dollars, not to mention the time and calculations involved. This is another method I make money of adjusting peoples CO's (not from this website of course), because a lot of people who have them cannot for all of their skills and effort figure out why their track times are suffering worse than some lousy OE springs. Believe it or not, this cannot be done by SOTP alone.

If corner weighting and crossweights aren't done properly, then the car will handle even worse than stock, such as oversteering to the left and understeering to the right, vice versa, and once again cannot be accomplished by SOTP. That's why Sam, DanO, chicane, and I advise people about the real deal behind CO's.

The poor roads don't really have much to do with coil-over streetability.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to analyse more, but even though the LG setup is a complete deal, a customer doesn't need to be stuck with Lou's valvings and spring rates. For some more money, they can opt for Motorsport Konis, Motons, Penske's, Ohlin's, other types of Motorsport Bilsteins, etc. combined with a customer's specified spring rates. They're all there at your service, for an added cost of course (probably another 1000 to much more depending on what you opt for).

dailydriver

Foxxtron; yes, you are right about the corner/cross weighting. Another thing Birdman will not like is that even if he does go with coilovers and does do the obligatory corner/cross weighting, the car may actually look "lopsided" or uneven when set up properly for handling safely/correctly. His best bet may be Koni SAs & Sam's new springs! I was lucky to have some SCCA GT-1/Formula racers who own a shop very nearby and have scales/plates setup my GCs/Konis. I just thought you were implying that they were just "unstreetable" under any/all conditions, my bad!!

As far as the LG stuff; I was not implying that they are the end all/ be all of coilovers, just that one does not have to "convert" regular steel shocks, such as in the GC/Koni deal. Yes, the reservoir, 3++ way adjustable Motons/Penskes/Reigers/etc.,etc. are the ultimate race setups and most are 2-3X the cost of Lou's stuff!!!

BirdmanLS1

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=Foxxtron]I think you ought to call Sam strano.

Again, adjustibility for height isn't your problem. It's the super low, super soft sportlines combined with stock shocks.[/QUOTE]

Ok, i know it necesarrily isnt my problem, but its what i want... I want to be able to adjust ride height over anything... I am more than willing to take any advise on the proper combo of shocks/springs and do want to learn the best way to get better 60' times, but more important to me is ride height adjustability. So what do you recommend the setup i get that also has ride height adjustability? (mainly setup for a straightline, but would like to have some cornering abilities) Money isnt an issue...

dailydriver

[QUOTE=BirdmanLS1]Like all will tell you (including Sam), 60 foots and handling are divergent qualities/characteristics. Any compromise for one or the other is just that, a compromise. That being said, a setup for handling will not hurt your 60' as much as a setup for ultimate 60' weight transfer will hurt your cornering. Ever try to "bang some twisties" in one of these <1.6 sec. 60' rides (i.e.; no front swaybar/skinnies/drag shocks/springs/DRs or slicks/drag rear swaybar, spool or locker, etc.)?? I hope not, for your sake!!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

My guess would be drag racing with improved daily driver capabilities, right?

That's kind of a tall order since those two are diametrically opposed.

Now the adjustible spring perch aspect with all of what's been revealed will still be a concern, but in this case will now be the lesser of the problems. Yes, you'll need a set of springs as soft or maybe softer than what OE specs would have for the drag racing aspect, however your daily driving performance will be decreased considerably.

Since your budget has no ceilings (essentially you will spend as much as you have to), to get the best of both worlds, you'll need to have at least two seperate sets of springs available as there are no free lunches are concerned. One set being soft enough to allow quick weight transfer and another to allow at least improved street performance. This is the first hard pill to swallow.

Secondly, for the drag's you'll need to have valvings that allow for quick weight transfer as possible, as opposed to enhanced daily driver, you'll need valvings that will be able to dampen much of the stiff springs oscillations. I have not seen any shocks that will allow both types of valvings for that, yet (QA1's aren't either).

As seen there are no free lunches, and in the case I describe above, you will be spending much money (probably near several thousands for what is demanded). Long term reliability and service is being neglected in this explanation as well.

If you talk to Sam Strano, you'll discover that he's tried a variety of shocks and springs that are found around this webiste.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

No worries, just clarifying on friendly terms (at least my intention), and yes, that's the thing to do, find a shop that will have the corner scales (then again, the people who like what I do have a way letting word go round )

And FWIW, they're many times overkill for even the most heavily modified road course F-bodies.

BirdmanLS1

iTrader: (3)

ok so you are saying i need 2 seperate sets of springs? one to install when i go drag racing and one when im just daily driving? Ok forget the drag racing setup for now... i just need suspension that i can adjust ride height with... i know you guys have to have some sort of combo of spring/shocks that you all can recommend? Koni Sa's/strano's new spring or what? what other spring? I just want to know what i should buy to be able to adjust ride height... im not concerned about anything else right now... this suspension mod will be the last mod i add for a long time and it just needs to be able to adjust ride height for my Y-pipe clearance... thats it...nothing else...

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to say, pretty much. In order to perform both well, you must not only have two sets of springs, but possibly two sets of shocks (unless your shocks have the ability to either easily valve for excellent control for corner carving, then be revalved for efficient and effective weight transfer). Once again this doesn't count all of the adjustible suspension items that might be needed with this.

Now if I get get your point, you want to clear the Y-pipe and nothing else, right? That does require ride height adjustment, however if you want to now put your emphasis of drag racing on hold (you can still do it, however you won't do as well as others who have dedicated equipment that does it properly, but then again, their setups absolutely suck for the street, no matter what subjective testimony will follow this) definitely consider something in the area of the 8241 Koni SA. Adjusting the valvings will probably do more than many other of the suspension items touted combined, however it's softest setting is a bit stiffer than the POS OE DeCarbons.

AFA spring or spring systems, which "set" the ride height, you have two types of options:

1. upgraded replacement springs (e.g. DMS, BMR, LG G2, H&R, Hotckis, Eibach Pro-kit, some other usual suspects, and the up and coming Stranoparts spring sets).

Benefit: Inexpensive, easy to install, preset spring rates, cornerweights, crossweights, Cg, and other geometry aspects are usually taken into consideration so there is much less room for error, however...

Risk: considering the aspects above, the price can reflect quality of engineering, which leads to those aspects I mentioned above to be preset with screwy qualities. This is what you're experiencing with sportlines, however some of the others are much better than sportlines but still have their setbacks. Since they're preset, your stuck with those springs, until you can get another set that can fit your needs. You'll need a spring compressor to change the springs, however that's easily sourced as a loaner from AutoZone and a few other nationwide chains.

2. retrofit coil-over sleeves (officially known as adjustible ride height weight jackers):

Benefit: adjustment allows for individual ride heights on each corner (provided that each corner is installed with height adjusters) and with that, overall ride height, Cg, cornerweights, and crossweights can be adjusted. Some of the components may be light enough to save bits of unsrung weight, and since the springs used are usually of a standard diameter, they can be easily sourced. Unless improperly installed or configured, there is no need for a spring compressor. This is why many advanced motosports sanctions and their categories desire this, however...

Risk: Not cheap and with adjustment and replacement capabilities come complexities. As I mentioned earlier, if you don't have access to the proper equipment for cornerweighting and crossweighting, you'll pay through the nose. If one spring isn't a proper weight, you'll have to source new ones, and if all four aren't good, you'll easily pay around 200 dollars to get a newer set of 4 coil-over springs with the rates you'll need (almost as much as replacement cost of the replacement non-adjustible springs).

I know by now that this is probably loading the thread like crazy, however I typed it for your benefit of info, as well as others who are trying to make a decision and would like locate it through a search, and/or for AX and RRer's who might evaluate for incorrect statements or omission of important info.

For all of what this information is worth and the fact that you need to clear the Y-pipe, I will once again recommend to replace the dreaded sportlines and stock DeCArbons with something that Sam and you can discuss over the phone (contrary to people's opinions questioning his posts, he's a much better person to talk to since he can say the same thing, and with good old voice technology, he and his customers can easily sort things out in many different ways in a highly diplomatic sense).

My "pre-suggestions" of sorts? Consider Koni SA's and probably try to source some stock springs (that is if the replacement springs that are currently offered don't quite fit your need). With stock springs and Koni SA's, you can mount the spring on a lower spring perch ring on the front, which will lower the front by 3/4", and for the back you can lower the rear ride height by using the "hose mod." The hose mod procedure is well explained through another thread, or Sam can explain it well. The rear hose mod lowers the vehicle around 1/2 to 3/4", which still provides some good rake. For pictures, a search should pull some results.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

BTW, the reason I suggested to something around Koni SA's with stock springs, is because the Koni's will be the real modification to play around with while retaining the springs, which will serve as a "stock component of sorts." As unexciting as that sounds, it's best to really "learn the platform" in somewhat of it's stock form, then modify slowly and gradually by installing one additional modification at a time.

BirdmanLS1

iTrader: (3)

Wow... thank you very much for all the information you have provided... Thats exactly the information i was trying to find out. I will give Sam a call when it comes time to purchase my suspension setup... Its a releif to know that i wont have to spend over 2 grand to get adjustibility in height...

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Not a problem, thank you for bearing with us.

BTW, For what the options are, ride adjustibility can come cheap, just not easy and quick, but once learned and if applied to some serious AX and/or RR, the rewards will revel themselves.

Once again, thanks and best of luck with whatever your decision may be.

nick_s

iTrader: (11)

air-ride