Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

I'm wanting to add coil overs up front, I currently run the Eibach Pro-Kit and SLP Bilsteins that came on the car when I ordered it 7 years ago I have 101k miles on this stuff, I want to be able to adjust the front height, and I may use some stock springs and cut a coil or whatever on the rears since my car hits the bumpstops with this setup.

I have always like Global West's stuff, are they still top dog for coil overs? What setup would you guys recommend?

DAILY driver street car with 500+rwhp, I like it low, I like it to be solid, don't mind a little harsh ride as my current ride sucks,

I have poly bushings on all sway bars, endlinks, etc. I currently have the Global West dual spherical bearing adjustable panhard rod with stock LCA's. 21mm rear 1LE sway bar and 32mm 1LE front sway bar.

Thanks for any help!!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Actually, I had Global West fronts with my Koni DA's (previous to what I currently have, on both street and track vehicle) and I think that they're quite well made (just the price that puts me off).

A question though:

How much experience have you had with owning coil-overs? Many who install them acutally make their performance worse.

I do notice that you use SLP Bilsteins with Eibach Pro-kit, and that shocks may be a big problem with what you're doing.

EDIT: I think that if it came with the SS, it should be the SLP Eibach's and not the pro-kit itself.

chicane

Best coli-overs ??

Id say Moton or Penske. KONI comes in at a close third..... I guess it comes down to application/what you are going to be really doing with them and..... obviously, cost.

But Fox has a good point on making better/making worse.

Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

I installed a set of coil overs on my friends '95 Z28, they work perfect. I have never had them on my car, but really want them for the ride height adjustment and the fact that they handle so much nicer than the spring setup I have now, etc. I swapped out the SLP Eibach's that came on the car to the standard Eibach Pro-kit.

I have been wanting to pick up a set of the GW Coil overs for some time, just don't know what shock has to be run with a coil over setup, can a revalved Strano Bilstein be run in a coil over or should I use something along the lines of a QA1, HAL, or Koni?

Thanks for the info so far!!!

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Okay,

Not to bust anybody's chops, however "working perfect" doesn't really explain anything. AFA what many of the bonafide names around here (trackbird, mitchntx, Sam Strano, Cal, chicane, sgarnett, VIP1, etc., you get the idea) know very well what coil-overs are really about.

The fact that you explain that you installed them on your friend's F-body then ask for what shocks will work better with it demonstrated that there is much to be learned, however not a problem, that's what I and others are here for. Just be aware that lap times are really some of the critical things that explain what a car is doing, and less of the feel.

I will ask what was done AFA your install other than just adjusting for overall ride height? (there is much more importance than ride height alone, especially for manoeuvering)

Another question would be, what equipment other than shop tools are required in order to properly configure a coil-over kit? (if you say front-end alignment, you've got one-half of the answer down).

Lastly, what approximate spring rates are you guys using?

You can clearly see that all of this adds up to something much more than what's needed for even the most aggresive daily driving. Believe it or not, what I have listed below in my sig is somewhat overkill for any AX (at least on my street vehicle) but WAY OVERKILL for even the most aggressive street driving. The only reason I have them installed on my street vehicle as well is...because I found them handy for spare parts on my street vehicle.

EDIT: I hope this isn't coming off to confuse or to incite anything, just trying to sort out what can be useful for you, but of course as always, your money is your business. If you want, you can PM me so I can sort much more details out.

Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

No problem dude. The kit was built for another friend of mines '99 SS about 5 years ago, it's been a LONG time since I can remember what the stuff was, if memory serves me right, which it barely does the spring rate on the fronts were in the 600-650lbs area, and they are coupled with Koni Single adjustable shocks. They have the tool that came with the shocks to adjust the stiffness (alan wrench I believe), and the coil overs are adjusted with the bottom support piece, it turns to adjust the height. It's set up for daily driving, about -.75 degrees of camber, max caster and 0 toe, the car never sees the track so he doesn't really care if it's not ideal for rr or ax, but he occasionally turns quickly

I can't remember exactly what the rears springs are, maybe 350lb, they aren't progressive springs I believe.

Like I said, it's been about 3 years or so since we installed them and I knew what the **** was, now I've long forgot and need to get something for my car and that's why I'm posting. I know a Koni DA would be ideal, but I don't want to mess with the 2 adjustment points on the shocks, and I don't want to dump a $1k for the shocks alone, etc. I ask what's the best out now, since it's been years since I looked into this, and if there has been any advancements in shocks out there to where you can get away with a non adjustable shock like the revalved Bilsteins, etc.

I just want something that will be similiar in ride to a Eibach/Bilstein combo, but the ability to adjust the ride height since right now my ride height isn't where I want it, and I don't want to cut the coils, and not to mention the **** is worn out.

What else can I give you for info that would help suggest something?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Excellent, and yes, when the ***** worn out, it makes everybody feel like ****.

BTW, I'll PM you with a phone number or if you want I can call you so you don't have to pay long distance. It's much easier, quicker, and probably less "rhetoric" to be misread.

DanO

Ground Control

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Ground control may seem cool, but they're hard to deal with. I prefer Global west for an easier (if not cheaper) route.

I think the real problem now isn't so much the coil-over aspect, but the most effective means for under 1K (a tough feat to accomplish, since there is little in that way, especially for something to work properly).

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

One more question for Orange Peel,

What scales are you guys using to adjust the coil-overs?

DanO

Hard to deal with in terms of the company's tech/sales support or the actual setting of corner weights?

I will agree with the statements above and say properly setting up the suspension is worth 10x more than just buying expensive pieces and throwing them on the car. Properly setting the coilovers is very important, most just go by the "look" to see if they are set properly. And another KEY factor with the higher spring rates is properly damping them. And i will say that not many people can tell by the seat of the pants how much they are actually loosing with thier improper settings. Maintaining your optimal contact patch is the name of the game and many times, the bolt on parts actually hurt you in actual lateral acceleraion but they "feel stiffer"..

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Sorry that I forgot to clarify, but from my personal experience and many of the guys over at frrax, and some others, Ground Control was difficult to deal with on the basis that they were a month overdue on when they promised to deliver my CO's and when it came to installing them on Koni's, talk about lots of labour involved, and the instructions were mostly bilstein specific(nothing in the instructions at the time AFA Koni's were concerned).

I sold them, tried Global West fronts and a modified Allstar racing weight jacker setup in the rear with 5" I.D. Hypercoils. liked them, but then wanted to move up to what I have now, which I think is great for Open tracking and RR, but again for the street, they're lots of money spend for a marginally better performance than lets say, a properly designed upgrade replacement lowering spring and combined with either Koni SA's or Bilstein revavles.

Just my 2 cents.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Okay,

maybe I'm going a bit overboard with this thread, however, here's an interesting article to examine:

http://www.1le.net/docs/tittermary.jpg

Bear in mind what they describe throughout. I have to agree that from my experience with a setup very similar to the 1LE, the 1LE package specifications are very difficult to improve on. With the myriad of modifications out there for suspension, much of them really don't quite offer much improvement AFA directly improving vehicle performance. Some actually hurt the performance.

AFA what I can suggest from this would be to start with a good foundation, which is just Koni SA's. FWIW, Koni DA's in my experience and several of the DD (even AXer's) are simply overkill, since adjustment of the unsprung weight is quite unecessary, especially for a daily driver. Even when Koni SA's are paired with the prokits, it's much better than something just mismatched to begin with (Yes, the SLP Eibach/Bilstein combo is mismatched due to improper compression valvings and heck, I've met several people who've yanked the Y2Y Bilstein package of their SS's/Firehawks to opt for Koni SA's w/stock Z28/TA springs). Regardless of whatever you eventually use, you should definitely start with good shocks.

Also, previous experience with a 32mm front/19mm rear was better than 30mm front/19mm rear, however 35mm front/21mm or 22mm rear was even an improvement over the first combination mentioned, however swaybar combinations such as 32mm front/21mm rear setup was a bit too loose and a 35mm front/24mm or 25mm rear was absolutely a handful (bear in mind this is with the PHB in it's stock location).

I believe the big problem with the how people are using the pro-kit is mostly due to improper damping and/or setting a whole lotta stereo equipement in their rear. While I personally don't care for much of the Eibach replacement spring products (personaly experience from running on AX courses) it's improper damping that really makes the ride suck with many of the lowering springs offered. Another problem is when people lower their ride than 1", they discover that they encounter problems outside of the suspension itself, such as improper Cg and improper angles of the steering rods. This is another area where people with CO's and way too low of lowering springs get into a real bind.

DanO

Foxxtron.. you always seem to go overboard with your posts (as far as the initial question is concerned), but that does make for interesting reading. I just dont take the time to do the writeups that you do, lol

But i hope to get some shock dyno plots soon as i get my new Koni SA's.. I have yet to see any dyno plots.. and i think comparing them to the stockers will really shed some light.

Also I have really wanted to get suspension geometry points.. however i have yet to get an very accurate method for getting all the points. If we could only get some dimensions and info from GM ... Well,the dimenions i do have i cant share, but they wont help with suspension design anyway..

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

Actually, the Koni SA dynos for the 4th gen F-body might be available online somewhere, however I don't think it's at the Koni NA website (could be wrong though).

Now if one other thread is to go overboard, just look at their suggestions for SFC's AFA hooking better for drag racing, yet none of them mention an upgraded Torque Arm in their posts or sigs.

DanO

Well.. i'd rather do it myself to get the actual data from MY shocks.

Oh and i do love the claims from some of the mods.. quite funny when you look at what they have and what they claim.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

100% agree, especially since it would help you to gain some knowledge of your specific individual shocks' tolerances.

Yes, lemmings are interesting creatures that never cease to amaze me.

chicane

Outstanding point.

I am not a progresive spring fan myself. The E kits are just a bandaid to suit the median consumer just trying to lower the chassis and are under-educated by those who sell you the product.... if you can not get a damper to suit the spring envolved.

What you are after is just enough spring, a GOOD damper (as it is what controls the spring) and compliment it with enough stay-bar........ a good balanced package.

For instance, I run a 720/320 spring with a Bilstein double digressive 350/160 - 275/110 damper package with a 25.4mm front stay-bar and no rear on my 67. Thats what the chassis likes........

For the money, doing a coli-over suspension is the best way to get things done right. But for a street chassis ?? ..... there are many other factors that contribute to the "end package". You can make a good thing.... a whole lot worse, as Fox pointed out by using mis-matched components. But honestly, it does cost some moola to get it right. And for the price spoken..... a grand might scratch the surface.

Ill second Fox's comment on the 1LE package...... and also for the KONI SA with a set or Pro-springs. The best packages for the money involved.

And speaking about the money involved, concerning the 1LE, is the fact that it doesnt start effecting other dynamics of the suspension like most of the aftermarket stuff does.... (due to lowering the chassis too much) the 1LE would be a good place to start. But for some reason.... I am thinking you want to go lower ??

For the 4th gen shocks, call Lee at Koni. He'll be the one to know.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

And by lowering in the proper manner, things can be dramatically improved with a lot less problems to encounter.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

I run everything LG makes. Coil overs, LCAs panhard bar (aluminum DA). I'll have their arms this spring.

Love the parts, didn't like the communication with LG. At the time, it took me almost 6 months to get all my parts.

Foxx, how do you like those swaybars? Ever try anything else? I'm running LGs so far, but only have 50 or so street miles on the setup. Winter came quickly....

How low do you run those? I'm lowered at least 2", I'm guessing more. I haven't aligned it yet, but it tracked very well. I have to cut out my rear quarters, so I'll be able to run my 18s. Then I'll align it.