Shooter_Jay

I did some searching, but didn't find the answer to my questions.

Can someone tell me the different advantages/disadvantages/options for brake pad compounds?

I'm leaning towards ceramics basically from what I vaguely remember reading about years ago, but don't really remember why.

By the way, I just ordered front blank rotors from Strano.

What I do want in pads in order of importance is: 1. QUIET 2. LOW DUST, 3. of course performance.

Thanks

Screamin_Z

iTrader: (2)

IMO call up Sam and he'll ask u about how u use ur car and what ur looking for then he'll suggest a set for u.

Shooter_Jay

I agree, and I am going to call there tomorrow too, but I'm hoping to be a bit more educated by the time I call there. Plus, though the person I talked to on the phone there last week, though helpful, wasn't Sam. Not to mention I see on his site, some of those pads are pretty damn expensive, and it's just not usually economical or a good idea really to base your decision only on what the guy selling you stuff is telling you, no offense to mr. Strano.

I found alot of info on here on rotors and calipers, but still in the dark about pads really, so any help is much appreciated.

Jay

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

That seems to be the pat answer around here.

Doesn't anyone think for themselves any more?

chicane

Hawk HPS or Ferodo 2500.......

Shooter_Jay

Not sure what you mean there...

EDIT: oh nevermind, I think I see what you meant.

Shooter_Jay

Thanks for the suggestions, can you tell me why you recommend those? I'm looking for recommendations too, but looking more for the why.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

How long do you want the rotors to last? Are you skillful at modulating your brake pedal?

Also, have you upgraded the fluid? That's something that people neglect when it comes to pedal feel.

Shooter_Jay

Upgrade fluid? I thought dot3 was dot3. Actually I have no complaints with the way it brakes except for the vibration.

As for modulating the brake pedal, I assume you mean don't just ride it at constant pressure, say on an off-ramp, press then let go, press then let go...yah I do that.

So are you saying some compounds will wear or heat/warp the rotors faster? Which pad material affects that in which way?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

essentially, you don't have to stick with DOT 3. You can use dot 4, dot 5.1 but whatever you do, do not use dot 5. If you don't have a spongy pedal so far, your fluid should be okay.

AFA the compounds, yes, however for the purpose of what you mention, we'll stick with "streetable" compounds. Many race/club race pads are absolutely out of the question due to their MOT's being higher and usually wearing out the rotors within practically a week with street use. In short, yes you can have a more aggressive street compound, however the tradeoffs can/will be decreased rotor life, more noise, and possible more dust. Having something so aggressive that feels like "throwing the boat anchors out" would be more suited to properly trained drivers rather than the driver that just stands on the pedal like it's just a button.

chicane

You stated "low dust"..... and those are the only two that I can really say that are in the "lower dust" catagory. Not to mention that they are rotor friendly.

Well.... yeah. If you follow the instructions (found here ), you will find yourself much farther ahead of the curve and you wont be one of the many (here) that complain about susposed "warped" rotors (which 95% of them are not) or have the other associated problems that are discussed day to day.

First, lets purge ourselves of the term "warped".

In nearly every case, warped rotors are not physically warped at all. It is a common misconception that the rotors get hot enough to distort and then, upon cooling, end up looking like a pretzel. Contrary to popular belief, rotors simply do not warp in this fashion.

What most dont realize is what adherent and/or abrasive fricition is and how it effects brake operation. All brake pads operate in both modes and sometimes simultaneously. Typically though, most pads will operate in a primarily abrasive mode when they are cold and will then transition to an adherent mode as the brake temperature increases. This is why some pads require warming before they will be operating properly on track..... because they to go adherent before they exhibit their desired performance.

If you (or anyone) has ever used the ubiquitous Hawk Blue 9012 pads, then you know of what I speak. This material operates like a brake lathe (mega abrasive mode) until it gets hot enough to stop on a dime (ultra adherent mode.) Its also why you shouldnt run Hawk Blue pads on the street: the temperatures will never get hot enough to get out of the abrasive mode, and the rotors will pay the ultimate price.

Adherent friction. If you use primarily adherent pads on your car, chances are that your rotors will actually be thicker than when new. Why ?? It is because of the added thickness from the transfer layer material.

The vibration that is felt in the steering wheel is almost always caused by rotor thickness variation as a direct result of the caliper piston extending and retracting as it tries to follow a rotor of varying surface thickness. Thickness variation is initiated by an un even transfer layer of brake pad material on the rotor face.

Improper bed in of new brake pads and/or rotors is usually the culprit. Overheating the pad compounds can generate an uneven transfer layer as it leaves 'splotches' on the rotor face. In any case, the uneven transfer layer deposits will wear differently than the surrounding rotor material. On and on it goes...... until the the high spots and low spots can be felt in the rotor face and are severe enough to be felt in the pedal. Even less than 0.001" variation can be down right annoying.

Another common source of thickness variation is in the overheating of the rotor itself. It gets hot. Really hot. Then you rest you foot on the pedal at a stop light after hard use and where the pad was at rest, and it builds up a transfer layer in a localized area. Now, these 'hot spots' will wear more quickly, creating a thick and thin wear pattern on the rotor face.

But enough of my explaination..... everyone seems to think that rotors warp from heat.

But, following the bed instructions will cure you of the stated problems assoicated with pad/rotor bed-in and the requirements give you another good reason to take the car for a spin.......


Here is another good read from GRM article on brake pads

As is the venerable Stop Tech White Pages

And one on brake fluid

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Thanks, Chicane for the write up and links. VERY informative!

Shooter_Jay

yeah, thanks very much for the enlightening info Chicane, you have set me in the right direction now. I will definitely need to check those links out. Thanks again.

Shooter_Jay

Well I've always had a need for speed and love to drive the wheels off of stuff, but I don't do any driving in my Z that I ever slam the brakes on except in the occasional panic slow-down on a highway or somehting. I'd like something I could get mileage out of, quite, and low dust then. I'll look into the pads chicane recommended then. Do you agree with his recommendations or have your own foxxtron?

Thanks again to both of you guys.

Shooter_Jay

so how do ceramic pads work, I'm guessing they don't transfer material, and work purely on friction? I didn't see anything yet on ceramics, but it looks like you don't bed them in? What is the drawback to ceramics why you guys don't use them, less performance and faster rotor wear?

Also, how do you guys bed yours without causing an accident or getting arrested? Ten times in a row 60 to 10 mph, definitely not going to do it on my own road heh.

I wonder if I could just clean the extra compound off my current rotors? I'll have to do more reading, skipped that section so far. Sometimes I envy the ignorance is bliss philosiphy crowd . I have to get to bed. Thanks again for the help.

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

In all honesty, the best advice I can say is to not rest with mine or just one person's information. Basically, ask around a little more. As mentioned before, if you have such an aggressive pad, you will cause rotors to wear sooner. Even I don't prefer to have such an aggressive pad compound since what I have right now perfroms quite well, even with the proper modulation.

If you find yourself slamming on brakes quite often, then you ought to observe your driving style and adjust accordingly. FWIW, braking in any car involves much more than just the braking system itself.

Shooter_Jay

who sells forodo, I didn't see it on strano's site

michaelg589

iTrader: (1)

well i guess ill throw in my 2 cents. My rotors on my car used to be badly warped. I replaced all the rotors with slotted rotors and at first i replaced all the pads with semi-mettalic pads. these pads were awful. maybe it was just the brand (Bendix) or semi-metallic is just a terrible compund. They were EXTREMELY noisy, generated enormous amounts of dust and brutalized my new rotors. (heat spots and i think im feeling a VERY slight warpage still today.) So I replaced the pads with HAWk performance ceramic pads. And wow, they are great. zero noise, and very low dust. As far as performance, I really havnt done much hard drving with them yet, but once theyre nice and seated in with the rotors, i will. I didnt go with the ceramic at first because of how hard ceramic pads are. I was worried that having too hard of a pad would warp the rotor, but the softer semi-metallics actually generated much more heat, which was hurting my rotors.

chicane

Bingo.

The best advice given in this thread so far. Hence, my informational offerings....

The Porterfield "R4-S" is another great pad. I have used these for years with excellent results.


Shooter- HRP World, Essex and Andy Porterfield all sell Ferodo.

Shooter_Jay

Thanks for all the help guys.

Still looking to verify the pros and cons specific to ceramic pads.

I'm guessing they don't transfer material to the rotor. This I would guess would wear a rotor thin over time...maybe killing the rotors faster. Is that true they don't transfer material?

I do know now that the ceramics are quieter and less dust, but how about braking performance relative to metallic and carbon metallic?