Building Pushrod Front Suspension with Inboard Shocks - could use some advice
#1
Building Pushrod Front Suspension with Inboard Shocks - could use some advice
OK, I have lots of reasons for wanting to go to inboard shocks, but it's not that simple to do because of the engine being in the way. So I came up with this little design last night that moves them forward. It also allows me to lay them down at a 45* angle. Meaning I don't have to buy shorter shocks.
This tube would mount right above the frame rail.
The end result would look something like this:
Any advice concerning flaws in the design or helping me choose a material for the tube that won't twist like a torsion bar would be greatly appreciated.
Hmmm, maybe cut up an aluminum drivshaft?
Maybe 1.5" solid steel rod?
Thick wall chromoly tubing?
This tube would mount right above the frame rail.
The end result would look something like this:
Any advice concerning flaws in the design or helping me choose a material for the tube that won't twist like a torsion bar would be greatly appreciated.
Hmmm, maybe cut up an aluminum drivshaft?
Maybe 1.5" solid steel rod?
Thick wall chromoly tubing?
#2
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately most pics are blocked when I'm at work, so I can't see those. So do you mean shocks that lie horizontally like some racecars?
What would be the purpose or benefit of trying something like that? My question isn't meant to flame nor being sarcastic. I am asking seriously
What would be the purpose or benefit of trying something like that? My question isn't meant to flame nor being sarcastic. I am asking seriously
#3
TECH Addict
iTrader: (3)
I think I see what you are getting at...but I don't think there is nearly enough room to do what you are considering. I've seen setups similar to what you are suggesting, but they have been for small and light cars with tubular frames that have space for that kind of thing.
Not sure if you have done a spring/shock swap on our cars, but the entire assembly is quite large.
Not sure if you have done a spring/shock swap on our cars, but the entire assembly is quite large.
#4
Unfortunately most pics are blocked when I'm at work, so I can't see those. So do you mean shocks that lie horizontally like some racecars?
What would be the purpose or benefit of trying something like that? My question isn't meant to flame nor being sarcastic. I am asking seriously
What would be the purpose or benefit of trying something like that? My question isn't meant to flame nor being sarcastic. I am asking seriously
By going inboard I angle them more (45* limit as the Konii sa are twintube low pressure units and more than that will cause the gas to get into the valving). It will also allow me to easily alter the motion ratios to get more wheel travel should I need it. Plus hey, it's cool looking.
#5
I think I see what you are getting at...but I don't think there is nearly enough room to do what you are considering. I've seen setups similar to what you are suggesting, but they have been for small and light cars with tubular frames that have space for that kind of thing.
Not sure if you have done a spring/shock swap on our cars, but the entire assembly is quite large.
Not sure if you have done a spring/shock swap on our cars, but the entire assembly is quite large.
I do know that some roller bearings would be a better choice for the rocker ends as it will spread the loads better meaning more strength and longer life.
#6
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that I can see the pics at home, I was thinking of something different.
So have you done any other things as far as ground clearance? Like moved exhaust pipes around or anything else that sits lower?
So have you done any other things as far as ground clearance? Like moved exhaust pipes around or anything else that sits lower?
Trending Topics
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (52)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingsland, GA
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You should probably look into some sort of cam like most of the racecars have instead of that long bar. That is, unless you just don't have the room. But with the cam, it could be made fairly cheap, light, and super strong. Something like this: There is a guy on TGO that did this to his rear suspension. I don't know how well it drove, but once installed, it worked great with him jumping in the back.
#12
You should probably look into some sort of cam like most of the racecars have instead of that long bar. That is, unless you just don't have the room. But with the cam, it could be made fairly cheap, light, and super strong. Something like this:
There is a guy on TGO that did this to his rear suspension. I don't know how well it drove, but once installed, it worked great with him jumping in the back.
There is a guy on TGO that did this to his rear suspension. I don't know how well it drove, but once installed, it worked great with him jumping in the back.
What do you mean, if I don't have the room? Are you an f-body owner? If you are, you'll note that the engine is in between the shocks.
Anyone can make a pushrod setup for the rear of these cars, it's the front that's hard.
#13
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (52)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingsland, GA
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yea, sorry, I did mean rocker...it's still early. By room, I think I just mis-understood what you wrote. So you plan to place the shocks just like you have in the picture above?
Do you still plan on keeping the air bags with this setup?
Do you still plan on keeping the air bags with this setup?
Last edited by fast377; 10-04-2008 at 08:39 AM.
#14
Yes, I have to run the airbags.
#15
I just went outside and mocked it up. It will fit, but a shorter shock, sure would help. Or one that can lay flatter. It looks like the length of the tube from pushrod mount to shock mount is going to be 18". It's a little more than I thought, but it gives the airbags plenty of room in front of the engine. The radiator will be tucked into the nose, BTW. So it won't be seen.
The bottom shock mounts will be just below the level of the sway bar, which is still over 3" higher than the K-member. I should be able to squeeze them in there while having a decent angle on the rocker/cam device. The spring rate will start soft and then get firmer as the suspension compresses which is what most folks recommend.
I could also easily alter the motion ratio by adding extra holes in the ears of the rocker. Ride height fine tuning and corner weighting can be done on the pushrods themselves.
Now if I could set the engine back 18", a conventional rocker setup could be used, but I don't think that is going to happen.
The bottom shock mounts will be just below the level of the sway bar, which is still over 3" higher than the K-member. I should be able to squeeze them in there while having a decent angle on the rocker/cam device. The spring rate will start soft and then get firmer as the suspension compresses which is what most folks recommend.
I could also easily alter the motion ratio by adding extra holes in the ears of the rocker. Ride height fine tuning and corner weighting can be done on the pushrods themselves.
Now if I could set the engine back 18", a conventional rocker setup could be used, but I don't think that is going to happen.
Last edited by JasonWW; 10-04-2008 at 09:45 AM.
#17
Don't confuse project with idea. I still don't know if it will work like I want it to. That's why I'm asking for design input. If anyone has a better or simpler solution to making inboard shocks work, please post up.
Suspensions have been around so long, I surely couldn't have thought of something new. I'd really like to see some similar designs actually being used.
Suspensions have been around so long, I surely couldn't have thought of something new. I'd really like to see some similar designs actually being used.
Last edited by JasonWW; 10-06-2008 at 03:19 PM.
#18
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't confuse project with idea. I still don't know if it will work like I want it to. That's why I'm asking for design input. If anyone has a better or simpler solution to making inboard shocks work, please post up.
Suspensions have been around so long, I surely couldn't have thought of something new. I'd really like to see some similar designs actually being used.
Suspensions have been around so long, I surely couldn't have thought of something new. I'd really like to see some similar designs actually being used.
Did you ever figure out what parts of our car are the lowest points?
I'm assuming if your trying to get as low as possible that your going to have little to no suspension travel. Maybe a cm? You'd want super duper stiff springs in that case and good shocks. Unless you didn't care about that.
#19
With the amount of travel your trying to get, I would worry about the tube rotating too much where the shock extends and continues to rotate the tube so that the wheels are sucked up way past where you want to go in the wheel wells. Now, I'm sure you've considered this, just wanted to point that out. Also, where are you planning on mounting most of this? Are you going to do a full tube chassis conversion on the front of the car? A lot of the stock points where you "could" mount this design isn't going to hold up to loads the shock towers were designed for. Most of the front was designed to compress in an accident...
Just a few thoughts. Good luck with the design.
Just a few thoughts. Good luck with the design.
#20
I think you try things that most people haven't. Or if people have, they aren't on this message board. The thing I'd be afraid of is how well something entirely new would hold up. I wouldn't want my shocks to snap sideways on me. Unless I was an engineer, I probably wouldn't ever take on something like this.
Did you ever figure out what parts of our car are the lowest points?
I'm assuming if your trying to get as low as possible that your going to have little to no suspension travel. Maybe a cm? You'd want super duper stiff springs in that case and good shocks. Unless you didn't care about that.
Did you ever figure out what parts of our car are the lowest points?
I'm assuming if your trying to get as low as possible that your going to have little to no suspension travel. Maybe a cm? You'd want super duper stiff springs in that case and good shocks. Unless you didn't care about that.
Shock side loading isn't any more an issue than they are now in the stock location. No worries there. As long as both ends can pivot freely, your fine.
Yes, I know what are the lowest points, but it doesn't matter to me as I'm building new floors and frame for it.
I can have as much or as little suspension travel as I want. If I use a shock with 3.6" stroke (like stock) and maintain the stock 1.7 motion ratio, I'll have the stock 6" of travel. If I increase or decrease the motion ratio I will be moving the shocks valving out of it's range slightly, but I can always adjust the rebound to compensate some. So unless I switched shocks, I would keep the suspension travel between 5 and 7 inches. This is the front I'm talking about. In the rear I'll have 7"-8" of travel.
Make sense?
Last edited by JasonWW; 10-06-2008 at 11:08 PM.