What gun to get...and where?
02-10-2009, 05:24 PM
#61
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Glock is the best bang for the buck! I really like the 36 model because it's a little bigger than the 26-27, great gun to conceal and has the man stopping power of the .45. My second choice would be an M&P by SW, but add about $250-$300 to the price of the Glock.
02-10-2009, 05:38 PM
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Sounds like we need a LSM meet at a range.
I have a Glock 27 if you want to try it out. I'm not too thrilled about how it fits my hand, but I got a good deal on it. I also need someone else to shoot it and see if they hate the tritium sights as much as I do.
I've been looking at the XD's in a 9mm or something smaller like Bersa/Beretta/Walther in a .380. Hey, if 007 is OK with a .380, why shouldn't I be???
BTW, IIRC there is a gun show this weekend in Ft. W.
I have a Glock 27 if you want to try it out. I'm not too thrilled about how it fits my hand, but I got a good deal on it. I also need someone else to shoot it and see if they hate the tritium sights as much as I do.
I've been looking at the XD's in a 9mm or something smaller like Bersa/Beretta/Walther in a .380. Hey, if 007 is OK with a .380, why shouldn't I be???
BTW, IIRC there is a gun show this weekend in Ft. W.
02-10-2009, 07:45 PM
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I noticed a couple things I wanted to comment on...
I believe the picture you attached is a USP compact. FWIW HK dosent make "sub compacts" in their older USP line. The P2000SK is a "sub compact" (spelled with a K in German) model but that is a different gun than what you pictured.
I believe the picture you attached is a USP compact. FWIW HK dosent make "sub compacts" in their older USP line. The P2000SK is a "sub compact" (spelled with a K in German) model but that is a different gun than what you pictured.
yeah i didn't think anyone would notice my mistake! lol
i couldn't remeber the model # so i just used the USP. Last edited by boostnificent; 02-10-2009 at 07:52 PM.
02-10-2009, 08:51 PM
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Thats like buying an automatic Corvette race car (because its easy), intending to race it, and never practicing your driving skills. That decision would be painfully stupid come race day.
If you are "jacked up and scared" and "unloading 15 rounds at someone trying to kill or scare them away" in a gun fight, you will be on the **** end of the stick. I GUARANTEE you will either get yourself killed or kill someone you didn't mean to.
If you get your CCW and choose a weapon, you DAMN WELL better practice. Or you'll be as dangerous to yourself as you would be to anyone else. Get as much range time as you can and teach other family members (especially the children to disarm thier curiousity. Children are killed in firearms accidents because they were NEVER taught to respect them). When you aren't at the range, practice Isreali Point Shooting techniques without your weapon. Just like any other martial art, with enough practice, it will become instinctive.
As an American, it is your RIGHT to own a firearm. But it is your RESPONSIBILTY to know what you are doing with it.
If you are "jacked up and scared" and "unloading 15 rounds at someone trying to kill or scare them away" in a gun fight, you will be on the **** end of the stick. I GUARANTEE you will either get yourself killed or kill someone you didn't mean to.
If you get your CCW and choose a weapon, you DAMN WELL better practice. Or you'll be as dangerous to yourself as you would be to anyone else. Get as much range time as you can and teach other family members (especially the children to disarm thier curiousity. Children are killed in firearms accidents because they were NEVER taught to respect them). When you aren't at the range, practice Isreali Point Shooting techniques without your weapon. Just like any other martial art, with enough practice, it will become instinctive.
As an American, it is your RIGHT to own a firearm. But it is your RESPONSIBILTY to know what you are doing with it.
The simple fact of the matter is that when people are put in life/death situations they freeze, yes they freeze, even the great LS1Tech internet cowboys freeze. The whole point of a revolver is to make defending yourself as easy as possible. In a self defense situation you don't need 9+ bullets or a caliber that is going to recoil so much you can't control it.
You say that range time is a given and that anyone who takes the class and gets a gun is automatically going to go to the range all the time practice and that again is a stupid assumption. I would venture to guess that most people only go to the range 2-3 times after getting there pistol and then sparadically after that when the newness wears off and they have shown all their friends.
Not real sure what all your other rambling was about but whatever dood.
02-10-2009, 10:39 PM
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No worries, just felt like pointing it out. I have a USPc (9mm) so Im familiar with that model. I like the P2000s but in my hands the USP feels better. I have not shot a P30 yet.
02-10-2009, 11:09 PM
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I really like and appreciate the comments and suggestions you guys offered. I would like to shoot the guns you guys have offered to let me shoot. I'll chip in for the rounds.
02-11-2009, 10:28 AM
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I'm not exactly sure what your point is. If you are saying that buying a revolver as a concealed carry is stupid then you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
The simple fact of the matter is that when people are put in life/death situations they freeze, yes they freeze, even the great LS1Tech internet cowboys freeze. The whole point of a revolver is to make defending yourself as easy as possible. In a self defense situation you don't need 9+ bullets or a caliber that is going to recoil so much you can't control it.
You say that range time is a given and that anyone who takes the class and gets a gun is automatically going to go to the range all the time practice and that again is a stupid assumption. I would venture to guess that most people only go to the range 2-3 times after getting there pistol and then sparadically after that when the newness wears off and they have shown all their friends.
Not real sure what all your other rambling was about but whatever dood.
The simple fact of the matter is that when people are put in life/death situations they freeze, yes they freeze, even the great LS1Tech internet cowboys freeze. The whole point of a revolver is to make defending yourself as easy as possible. In a self defense situation you don't need 9+ bullets or a caliber that is going to recoil so much you can't control it.
You say that range time is a given and that anyone who takes the class and gets a gun is automatically going to go to the range all the time practice and that again is a stupid assumption. I would venture to guess that most people only go to the range 2-3 times after getting there pistol and then sparadically after that when the newness wears off and they have shown all their friends.
Not real sure what all your other rambling was about but whatever dood.
Buying your gun and getting your free class is JUST the beginning. Range training can only make you more accurate. If you carry ANY firearm, you had better face the reality that you have -in advance- chosen to fight in the "fight or flight" scenario. How can you take such a responsibility and NOT condition your mind to the VERY POSSIBLE scenario in advance? You want to talk about "psychology"? Carrying a firearm increases your chances of becoming involved in a deadly altercation by the simple fact that you CAN now. Congratulations! You have now purchased an alternative to fleeing. You can now freeze up and let the perp disarm you because of your lack of mental preparation -or be shot. Or you can freak out and unload your 6 to 20 shots and hope your rounds save your ***. Or better yet, hope you didn't kill anyone your unpracticed *** wasn't trying to.
More psychology? Most armed perps don't really want to kill you? They want money or whatever they want. But they generally don't want a murder case following them around. Otherwise, they would have just shot you from a distance and walked up and collected your wallet, car keys, or your kid. They, for the most part, purchased a firearm to use in the commission of the criminal stupidity that they are intent on to begin with, thinking it would make things easier for them. When presented with an armed victim, what do you think is going to happen?
Anyone who seriously wants your *** dead will engage you at a distance with a hunting rifle with a 2 liter pop bottle taped around the front of the barrel. If they face you with a pistol, they either do not expect to get away (don't care and suicidal), are armed and stupid, or planned the ambush well in advance. Either way, your unprepared *** is toast because you didn't see it coming and won't clear concealment quickly enough to effectively engage the threat.
Stats prove that human beings are easy to kill, but are very difficult to stop. Whatever you choose to carry, your shot placement had best be very accurate to guarantee no return fire. Or you can rely on luck and divine intervention. In your case, the perp will probably end up with a murder case for killing you and another weapon your frozen *** provided him with.
Read all this very carefully before assuming I'm rambling & unqualified to say any of it. In any case, don't be upset at me because you are wrong. Most people view concealed carry the way you do. And that is the primary reason liberals want to abolish it and your right to bear arms. They say that you cannot be trusted to do what is in the safe interests of the general public. And in your case, they would be correct.
02-11-2009, 10:52 AM
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Any quality handgun from quality manufacturers such as Sig, Glock, Springfield Armory, H&K, Beretta, S&W, etc will do.
My suggestion to everyone in your situation is to shoot as many different guns as possible and get the one that suits you. Don't buy into the sales slogans and hype. Take your time in buying one until you know what you want for sure. Once you shoot your CHL test with the Taurus, you'll have 3-4 months more to research and look before your CHL arrives.
By the way, there is no such thing as "too big to carry". I carry a full sized Sig P226 or the slightly smaller P229 all day every day. Once you learn how to properly conceal a firearm and buy a quality holster, you won't be limited by gun size.
I own several Glocks, Brownings, Sigs, S&W, and have owned too many to list. But I carry my Sigs everywhere.
My suggestion to everyone in your situation is to shoot as many different guns as possible and get the one that suits you. Don't buy into the sales slogans and hype. Take your time in buying one until you know what you want for sure. Once you shoot your CHL test with the Taurus, you'll have 3-4 months more to research and look before your CHL arrives.
By the way, there is no such thing as "too big to carry". I carry a full sized Sig P226 or the slightly smaller P229 all day every day. Once you learn how to properly conceal a firearm and buy a quality holster, you won't be limited by gun size.
I own several Glocks, Brownings, Sigs, S&W, and have owned too many to list. But I carry my Sigs everywhere.
02-11-2009, 11:04 AM
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Good points from both ulakovic22 and 180dragon.. I think you both make valid points...
Notes. This is the way I see it..
Home protection - Reliability and fast usability is number one.. Smaller Revolvers armed with hollow tips fit that choice probably over any other gun.. Gun dealers will tell you that..
Sniper or assassin - Rifle with scope, or large man stoping caliber pistol with silencer for closer distant man stoping kills..
Carrying a fire arm for protection legally - You may elect a bigger hand gun for looks and the intimadation factor to avoid confrontation to begin with.. Semi-automatic hand guns are probably a good choice for the availability of more rounds also, etc, etc....
Military use only - Highest caliber gun, most rounds, with reasonable distance accuracy.. Ease of mobility is key too..
Fellas it all depends on what purpose you want the gun for, when you break it down...
Notes. This is the way I see it..
Home protection - Reliability and fast usability is number one.. Smaller Revolvers armed with hollow tips fit that choice probably over any other gun.. Gun dealers will tell you that..
Sniper or assassin - Rifle with scope, or large man stoping caliber pistol with silencer for closer distant man stoping kills..
Carrying a fire arm for protection legally - You may elect a bigger hand gun for looks and the intimadation factor to avoid confrontation to begin with.. Semi-automatic hand guns are probably a good choice for the availability of more rounds also, etc, etc....
Military use only - Highest caliber gun, most rounds, with reasonable distance accuracy.. Ease of mobility is key too..
Fellas it all depends on what purpose you want the gun for, when you break it down...
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
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I second that....
what I learned is to see how much it will cost in the end. I ended up buying a .22 which was $200 less from buds than any shop local but I ended up only saving $100 after the transfer fees and what not.
what I learned is to see how much it will cost in the end. I ended up buying a .22 which was $200 less from buds than any shop local but I ended up only saving $100 after the transfer fees and what not.
02-11-2009, 11:30 AM
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It just occurred to me as I was posting to another thread; The FN 5.7 pistol is an excellent conceal carry piece for a professional or "savvy enthusiast". The 5.7 round was developed as a candidate for alternate NATO battle round, specific to CQB and PDW weapons. The FN P90 mag is loaded with 50 of these rounds. Terminal ballistics are akin to the short barrelled 5.57 M-16s. The FN 5.7 pistol fires this round, has a 20 round mag capacity, is ruthlessly accurate (for a pistol, at least).
I don't own the pistol. But I have tested it and the P90. Both are excellent Personal Defense Weapons. It wouldn't suprise me if we don't start seeing select fire versions of this pistol designed for carry by military pilots.
Just another option.
I don't own the pistol. But I have tested it and the P90. Both are excellent Personal Defense Weapons. It wouldn't suprise me if we don't start seeing select fire versions of this pistol designed for carry by military pilots.
Just another option.
02-11-2009, 12:26 PM
#78
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My post had LESS than nothing to do with your choice of a revolver or automatic for concealed carry. I read your post four times completely before coming to the conclusion that you either assume or avocate people using deadly force to defend themselves without a mental concept of ALL the responsibilities that entails -especially jumping through the hoops to get a Concealed Carry License.
Buying your gun and getting your free class is JUST the beginning. Range training can only make you more accurate. If you carry ANY firearm, you had better face the reality that you have -in advance- chosen to fight in the "fight or flight" scenario. How can you take such a responsibility and NOT condition your mind to the VERY POSSIBLE scenario in advance? You want to talk about "psychology"? Carrying a firearm increases your chances of becoming involved in a deadly altercation by the simple fact that you CAN now. Congratulations! You have now purchased an alternative to fleeing. You can now freeze up and let the perp disarm you because of your lack of mental preparation -or be shot. Or you can freak out and unload your 6 to 20 shots and hope your rounds save your ***. Or better yet, hope you didn't kill anyone your unpracticed *** wasn't trying to.
More psychology? Most armed perps don't really want to kill you? They want money or whatever they want. But they generally don't want a murder case following them around. Otherwise, they would have just shot you from a distance and walked up and collected your wallet, car keys, or your kid. They, for the most part, purchased a firearm to use in the commission of the criminal stupidity that they are intent on to begin with, thinking it would make things easier for them. When presented with an armed victim, what do you think is going to happen?
Anyone who seriously wants your *** dead will engage you at a distance with a hunting rifle with a 2 liter pop bottle taped around the front of the barrel. If they face you with a pistol, they either do not expect to get away (don't care and suicidal), are armed and stupid, or planned the ambush well in advance. Either way, your unprepared *** is toast because you didn't see it coming and won't clear concealment quickly enough to effectively engage the threat.
Stats prove that human beings are easy to kill, but are very difficult to stop. Whatever you choose to carry, your shot placement had best be very accurate to guarantee no return fire. Or you can rely on luck and divine intervention. In your case, the perp will probably end up with a murder case for killing you and another weapon your frozen *** provided him with.
Read all this very carefully before assuming I'm rambling & unqualified to say any of it. In any case, don't be upset at me because you are wrong. Most people view concealed carry the way you do. And that is the primary reason liberals want to abolish it and your right to bear arms. They say that you cannot be trusted to do what is in the safe interests of the general public. And in your case, they would be correct.
Buying your gun and getting your free class is JUST the beginning. Range training can only make you more accurate. If you carry ANY firearm, you had better face the reality that you have -in advance- chosen to fight in the "fight or flight" scenario. How can you take such a responsibility and NOT condition your mind to the VERY POSSIBLE scenario in advance? You want to talk about "psychology"? Carrying a firearm increases your chances of becoming involved in a deadly altercation by the simple fact that you CAN now. Congratulations! You have now purchased an alternative to fleeing. You can now freeze up and let the perp disarm you because of your lack of mental preparation -or be shot. Or you can freak out and unload your 6 to 20 shots and hope your rounds save your ***. Or better yet, hope you didn't kill anyone your unpracticed *** wasn't trying to.
More psychology? Most armed perps don't really want to kill you? They want money or whatever they want. But they generally don't want a murder case following them around. Otherwise, they would have just shot you from a distance and walked up and collected your wallet, car keys, or your kid. They, for the most part, purchased a firearm to use in the commission of the criminal stupidity that they are intent on to begin with, thinking it would make things easier for them. When presented with an armed victim, what do you think is going to happen?
Anyone who seriously wants your *** dead will engage you at a distance with a hunting rifle with a 2 liter pop bottle taped around the front of the barrel. If they face you with a pistol, they either do not expect to get away (don't care and suicidal), are armed and stupid, or planned the ambush well in advance. Either way, your unprepared *** is toast because you didn't see it coming and won't clear concealment quickly enough to effectively engage the threat.
Stats prove that human beings are easy to kill, but are very difficult to stop. Whatever you choose to carry, your shot placement had best be very accurate to guarantee no return fire. Or you can rely on luck and divine intervention. In your case, the perp will probably end up with a murder case for killing you and another weapon your frozen *** provided him with.
Read all this very carefully before assuming I'm rambling & unqualified to say any of it. In any case, don't be upset at me because you are wrong. Most people view concealed carry the way you do. And that is the primary reason liberals want to abolish it and your right to bear arms. They say that you cannot be trusted to do what is in the safe interests of the general public. And in your case, they would be correct.
If, as you said, your post has LESS than nothing to do with my opinion of suggesting a revolver over a semi then your posts are absolutely useless because that's all my post addresses. Everything else is you reading between the lines. Also as far as I know an opinion can't be wrong, so if you would like to explain why my opinion of a revolver is a bad idea, please do. If, instead you want to ramble on about the physcology and logic of the criminal mind, please spare me as well as everyone else.
02-11-2009, 03:19 PM
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Once again, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I replied to the thread and said that unless the OP has tons of experience he needs to KISS. IMO a revolver is the best way to KISS and gave my reasons. You then went off rambling about a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't matter.
If, as you said, your post has LESS than nothing to do with my opinion of suggesting a revolver over a semi then your posts are absolutely useless because that's all my post addresses. Everything else is you reading between the lines. Also as far as I know an opinion can't be wrong, so if you would like to explain why my opinion of a revolver is a bad idea, please do. If, instead you want to ramble on about the physcology and logic of the criminal mind, please spare me as well as everyone else.
If, as you said, your post has LESS than nothing to do with my opinion of suggesting a revolver over a semi then your posts are absolutely useless because that's all my post addresses. Everything else is you reading between the lines. Also as far as I know an opinion can't be wrong, so if you would like to explain why my opinion of a revolver is a bad idea, please do. If, instead you want to ramble on about the physcology and logic of the criminal mind, please spare me as well as everyone else.
As far as your KISS approach goes, if a revolver was the simplest and most ergonomic approach to ANY sidearm carry, law enforcement, government agencies, and the military would still be using them. They aren't. In fact, most savvy pistoleros STILL lean toward a custom 1911 style weapon (all modern automatics are still built on Browning patents). I'm not saying your revolver idea is a bad one for you because maybe you're a moron and can't figure out how to operate a modern automatic. Or maybe you're just too lazy to learn. For you its a bad idea because, should you (in your panic mode) need more than 6 rounds in a gunfight, you're screwed against an automatic. -or even against someone who is practiced, levelheaded, and going to kill you with a TC single shot Contender. Point, since I have to spell it out to you; A Springfield XD requires less training to become proficient with than a S&W model 29.
Modern automatics (Springfield XD, Walther P99, etc.) enjoy reliability ratings on par with any revolver. The safeties are damn near idiot proof and designed for combat/fast reaction use. Even the classic 1911 was specifically DESIGNED for killing humans and eclipsed the revolver as the sidearm of choice with professionals who make a living killing people. The safties are there for a reason!
The only reason you aren't sure what I'm talking about is because you choose not to. When you lose a family member or you yourself are shot by one of your "internet cowboys" with a CCL and a shiney new pistol (accidently or collaterally), we can have this conversation again. Otherwise, no, you probably won't get it.
