YellowTA1

iTrader: (10)

and it appears obamacare is the victor. Just curious, what others' thoughts are about it, either for, or against it....

Greed4Speed

iTrader: (7)

Get ready for taxes to increase. It has to be paid for some way.

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

i'm all for trying it. works real well in some countries, why not try it here and see if we can be progressive as well.

YellowTA1

iTrader: (10)

that's fine and all, and by all means correct me if I misunderstood something somewhere, but with the upholding of that, didn't it say that everyone must have ins. on their own, i.e. employer or other source, or have to pay a fine or something? if i have that correct, is that not a form of socialism, and the government telling us what we have to do?

za355tx

iTrader: (108)

Because we're the ones who are going to have to pay for it. It's a freakin joke and all those in favor need a reality check, well guess what, that reality check is here. 16 million people are going to be covered by medicaid now which means we hard working citizens are going to get the wonderful pleasure of paying for theire insurance. Progressive my ***, ask anyone who is involved in a healthcare system like this...the only ones who like it are the lazy asses who don't want to work who get free healthcare.

You need to re-read what this overhaul is all about before saying we should give it a shot...this opens the door to the government forcing us to pay higher taxes and to tax us on more things. Does anyone understand that we have just taken the first big step towards becoming a socialist nation??? I've been in a bad mood all day because of this. I simply cannot believe these ******** are going to force us to pay for healthcare or pay a fine if we don't. Yet if you're poor no matter what the reason you get free healthcare. Guess what, America was founded by hard work being relentless...we were not given our freedom we had to fight for it. We were not given anything, alot of blood was spilled so that we can live free and now our government is trying to give away as much as they can just to get votes. Greece also gave away a butt load of stuff and now they are in severe financial distress (broke). As Americans shouldn't we have the right to choose whether we want this or not? It shouldn't be up to Washington to make this choice.

The people making these decisions...the reform doesn't even affect them. The government has their own health insurance program. So these morons are telling us what's best for us but yet they don't have to follow the same rules.

And by the way it only works well for those who don't have to pay for it. Do you think it's fair that you have to pay for some lazy *** on his couch who doesn't want to work? Hell no. Get your *** off the couch and get a job. The government is making it too easy on these people. Do you also realize this type of healthcare system completely turns it's back on the elderly? While the little 75 year old granny awaits a transplant, a committee rules that the 16 year old punk *** high school dropout is more deserving so granny gets to die while the punk teenager jumps ahead of her. Do you really want the government deciding whether you live or die???????

A revolution is coming and sooner than you might think.

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

i work 70hrs a week as a cnc machinist, we are a small business and dont have any kind of insurance incentives. i guess i dont 'work my *** off enough' to you. before this i worked at a church as a graphic designer and or insurance 'pkg' was pure crap.
only friends that i know that get badass healthcare thru work are ones that work in govt postions, ie teachers, ect. and ones that work for huge mega oil companies.
i realise there are TONS of people that take advantage of the system, just like welfare. but at the same time, what are you going to do? get rid of it?
i think the healthcare thing could really help a lot of honest people out that cant afford proper procedures. just keep in mind that not everyone is as fortunate as you, and could be legitimate reasons besides 'they are lazy'.

i LOOOOVE hearing extremist like yourself calling an healthcare package like this to help people SOCIALISM. unless you just made a time machine and transported back to 1942 russia you need to STFU about being in a 'socalist' country.

Pwebbz28

iTrader: (31)

I carry major medical on myself and family. No reason to pay $500 a month when you go to the doctor once every 5 years. I don't need a doctors visit for the sniffles.

-Ross-

iTrader: (2)

My wife works for a local school district. Teachers' healthcare benefits are below average. I can attest to that.

You are correct about Big Oil. They have good insurance benefits.

GulfM3

iTrader: (14)

Read za335tx's post again, he not once calls you a lazy ***. He actually references you (several times) to the working class, who will now be paying an additional tax for health care.

As a working individual doesn't it chap your *** to know some of your income will be used to help a non working, leech on society?

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

Socialism sounds like the correct term to me.

dreww

iTrader: (1)

The fact is that if you can't afford healthcare now, and fall into certain categories, you still wont have it afterwards.
im single, no children and can't afford insurance (much less my bills) on my crappy pay. You can fine me for not having it, but I can't afford the fine either. And as of now, there is no fine.
can't squeeze blood out of a tournip.

The only way it will affect me, I will bring home even less money as my taxes will increase.

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

sure, but how are you going to prevent that % from taking advantage. i'd also like to think that some of my tax $ actually went to people that needed medical care.
its a 50/50, but i'd have to lean towards the side of helping someone if i had the choice.

at the same time, theres tons of my tax $ that dont go to stuff i use. i'm 29 and dont have kids. until last year i was paying 3,000$ a year of my property taxes going to my local school district. i was thinking WTF am i paying this **** for i dont even have kids. since then, my gf has 3 kids and they all go to the school 100yd from my house and i feel good knowing that i'm helping their education.
slightly different scenario than health care, but relates vaguely.

Greed4Speed

iTrader: (7)

Soviet Russia actually Communist. Most of Europe has and has had socialized medicine which is socialism in the medical field.

Let me ask you this. Would you be OK with paying higher taxes to augment people's fuel and energy bills because they live 50 miles from work and drive a SUV, keep their house 60* in the summer, 80* in the winter, leave outside doors open and lights on while you were frugal and bought an economy car, chose a house close to work and don't waste electricity? Its the same concept of entitlement and you probably wouldn't go for it if you didn't benefit from it. And yet by supporting Obamacare you are asking me and every other person to pay for you and your family's insurance. And yes, doing this is a socialist ideal. Just keep in mind how great you think it is when they come for your money for a program that you will not benefit from.


My first issue with Obamacare is cost. We as a nation are way over our heads in debt. The lion's share of that debt already goes to pay for social welfare programs (medicare/SS). How much more is it going to cost when we throw all the kids and other people who don't have insurance into the mix? Not to mention that several large corporations have already said they would pay the "fine" for not providing healthcare because that was the cheaper way out. Whats going to happen when these people flood the system too? How good is it going to be when we as a nation can't afford to maintain infrastructure or defend ourselves? Nothing is free. The money has to come from somewhere.

My second issue is the way many Americans are. I guarantee there will be droves of people who abuse the system. Having lived around tribes and their free government funded healthcare, I can tell you many people won't give a **** about their health if they don't pay for it. I've seen it with my own eyes. Not to mention the long wait times to even get in to see a Dr.

My 3rd issue is with government control. If they're paying for it, I can see big brother swooping in and forcing people to be "healthy." I can also see them stepping in and making life or death decisions based on your "value to society. " They could also create stipulations on activities you can or can't do based on "safety." All this could be done under the guise of "controlling costs." Sorry, but I don't trust the government to make decisions for me and this just opens the door to too many opportunities for them to infringe upon our rights.

The law isn't good. If it was then the politicians that voted it in would be on the same system, but they excluded themselves.

dreww

iTrader: (1)

Great post greed.
im like you, I look much further down the road (something govt doesn't do anymore) and you give em an inch.....they take a mile.

People who support it don't understand the underlying implications because those you created are hiding those implications. Marketing at its finest

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

since you said that most of the EU is socalised healthcare, can you show me some examples of how this crippled their country like you are implying it will do to ours?

Dave_the_SS

iTrader: (27)

Look at Canada... They pay ridiculous tax on everything 20% or so. That's all so they can have a national health care plan. You'd be surprised at how many people are living in poverty up there because they can't afford **** with such high taxs.....

Also this **** plan that Osama has is going to cripple small businesses and cause more unemployment. Small businesses dont have the money to fork out for insurance for all employees. So there for they will more then likely reduce the amount of people working for them so that they can afford the health care they must have now.



But there is a bright side........ Osama has more then Likely hurt himself for reelection.... Romney has already made a public anouncment that if elected he will appeal the decision for Osama care.

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

The canadian system is completely abused. And 20% tax rate is being nice, people that make any kind of decent money get taxed at a much higher rate. Hell, its why sports franchises can't survive up there, but I digress. You will pretty much wait over a year for any kind of major surgery up there, and will wait in ERs and clinics for hours and hours for anything. Behind a bunch of hypochondriacs that are on their third and fourth visits trying to get doctors to tell them what they want to hear. Pretty much the only reason the country isn't in complete ruin is the west is rich in natural resources.

XtremeBBQ

iTrader: (6)

trying to think which is worse.....waiting for hrs in a hospital. or lets say being 60yrs old, having a few thousand dollars in savings, mediocre insurance plan, and having lets say a medium medical procedure in which the hospital tries to rape you for 180,000$ and your greedy insurance corporation wants to deny paying any of it, they settle for 40,000$ and your stuck with 140,000 worth of debt. oh yeh, and they put a lein on your house cause they want their money.

sad to say this happens in the US, to tons of people, and its not cause they are 'lazy' and 'voted for obama'. truth is, the US medical division is BEYOND fucked up, insurance companies are BEYOND fucked up.
if you think healthcare is a 'step towards socalism'. then i dont want to know what you call the corruption and greed in the current medical/insurance marketplace. doesnt that seem like a bigger problem that you should be exerting your voice towards?

luvmeZ28

iTrader: (3)

There are an asston of people up there that suffer and die on waiting lists for operations. Things that can be done down here in the matter of weeks. As bad as it is down here now, it will be worse. What the hell does the government run well enough right now that you think they are going to run healthcare properly? It is going to be just as corrupt and abused as any social government program is. Mayne worse. I find it laughable that anyone thinks the government can pull this off, whether you believe in these socialist programs or not. The only thing our government has been truly good at is throwing endless amounts of money at problems, then writing it off.

And I don't think a proper medical system is socialism, but this obamacare nonsense definitely is. This system isn't about getting the country healthcare, its about adding another layer of government control to our lives. These "progressives" don't give a rats *** about giving you affordable healthcare. They want to tighten the belt another notch on the nanny
state.

Our current healthcare system could be greatly improved if there was more of an open competition and there weren't so many crazy regulatory issues. And your particular situation, you need to pay for your own healthcare if you want it. You have a good career, work quite a bit so I would imagine you make a good living. If I were in your situation I would do one of two things:

1. Stop being comfortable in your current job, and find an employer that offers health insurance. Be like the rest of is that "want" health insurance and split the costs with your employer.

2. Stick with your current employer and pay for insurance yourself. Its pricey, but if you want or need it that bad, you will make so. Maybe you will have to sacrifice buying a gun or two every year, or sell one of the jetskis, or not go on an expensive vacation every year. But YOU will be responsible for YOU. the way it should be. Why should I have to help pay for your insurance when I have my own bills and problems, on top of getting taxed to death by the government?

hiram007

iTrader: (19)

The problem with this assumption is that for every 1 legit person that needs these services, you have 100 other people who take advantage of the system. My wife is a pediatric resident and is scheduled to work at LBJ from time to time which has to be the most **** hole county hospital in Houston. Medicaid patients galore who just go in there to waste time asking for prescriptions for things like a cold just so they dont have to pay a few bucks over the counter knowing they can ride medicaid.

I would hate to be that 1 person that needs these services and has to spend hours in a waiting room while the other 100 are being entertained because Medicaid is paying for it.