Tig welder?? Any recommendations?
05-18-2004, 07:15 PM
#1
Tig welder?? Any recommendations? I am debating about buying a tig welder for my shop. I already have a mig but a tig would be nice since you can weld aluminum, titanium, and SS with precision. Anyone have one or can recommend one?
Phillip
Phillip
05-18-2004, 10:25 PM
#2
TECH Addict
My dad just recieved the new Lincoln 185 unit. It looks to be one heck of a machine. We have yet to get a bottle or run a line for it, but at first appearances it looks to be a top notch unit.
My friend got the Miller 180 and really likes it. He says stainless and regular steel are no problem, but is getting used to aluminum now. I would get one of these style machines, just because of its versatility. You can add a water cooled torchat a later time, and it can do some pretty thick stuff. Just be aware that these machines require a 70 amp 220 volt feed.
Happy TIG hunting.
My friend got the Miller 180 and really likes it. He says stainless and regular steel are no problem, but is getting used to aluminum now. I would get one of these style machines, just because of its versatility. You can add a water cooled torchat a later time, and it can do some pretty thick stuff. Just be aware that these machines require a 70 amp 220 volt feed.
Happy TIG hunting.
05-24-2004, 06:22 PM
#3
For a shop...at least a miller syncro 250...pretty much the standard in many shops.
We use a syncowave 250dx w/runner. Great machine. Highly recommended, very stable arc output at low amps. Squarewave technology is a must...getting as little slope as possible on AC is best. Has nice variability of dig/balance control.
If you get one, pick up the pulsar for material that your concerned with warpage... and sequencer for repetitive jobs...both are a great addition...get the cooler also...unless your doing very little work, the guns will get too hot to hold without it...cooled setups also are generally more agile also.
You need to be certain you have the power for it also. Plan on spending a ~ 5 grand for setup costs.
If this is too much for you, the next best valve would be a syncro 180....substantually less cost(about half)....good machine also, just not with more of the bells and whistles.
...spend some time practicing if your not familair with the machines. Tig takes a bit more work then mig. You may consider taking a night classes at a vo-tech school to get yourself familiarized with them if your unsure of your work...sometimes welds can look good but have very little tensile strength.
Another alternative is to use a mig spool gun for aluminum work...from a cost/time perspective, it is a better value. With some practice, you can possibly create some very nice welds.
If your machine doesn't accept a spool gun and only runs the aluminum filler material through a liner...don't bother, get a tig setup(or different mig machine)...lol
Steve
Pres.
We use a syncowave 250dx w/runner. Great machine. Highly recommended, very stable arc output at low amps. Squarewave technology is a must...getting as little slope as possible on AC is best. Has nice variability of dig/balance control.
If you get one, pick up the pulsar for material that your concerned with warpage... and sequencer for repetitive jobs...both are a great addition...get the cooler also...unless your doing very little work, the guns will get too hot to hold without it...cooled setups also are generally more agile also.
You need to be certain you have the power for it also. Plan on spending a ~ 5 grand for setup costs.
If this is too much for you, the next best valve would be a syncro 180....substantually less cost(about half)....good machine also, just not with more of the bells and whistles.
...spend some time practicing if your not familair with the machines. Tig takes a bit more work then mig. You may consider taking a night classes at a vo-tech school to get yourself familiarized with them if your unsure of your work...sometimes welds can look good but have very little tensile strength.
Another alternative is to use a mig spool gun for aluminum work...from a cost/time perspective, it is a better value. With some practice, you can possibly create some very nice welds.
If your machine doesn't accept a spool gun and only runs the aluminum filler material through a liner...don't bother, get a tig setup(or different mig machine)...lol
Steve
Pres.
05-25-2004, 09:47 AM
#4
Staging Lane
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I have the square wave 175 Lincoln TIG in my home shop, and it it probably the best tool investment I've made.
I had a 300 amp Hobart commercial TIG with a water cooled torch before I had this one. Like the big syncrowave 250, it had a lot of power and features, but the footprint is so large it was cumbersome to use. Power was sometimes a problem on a 50 amp 220 service.
99.9% of the time the small Lincoln TIG does everything that the big Hobart would do. A watercooled torch was nice, but only necessary when doing a lot of heavy aluminum work.
The TIG is incredibly flexable because it can weld down to .025" tubing or up to about .25". The problem is that it is slow and fussy. Fit-ups neet to be precise with a TIG, laying down a bead is about 25% as fast as a MIG, and you've got to be able to get your foot on the pedal, one hand with rod and the other with the torch, which limits where you can get to with the TIG. Overheads are a challenge. I sometimes have to call one of the kids to run the pedal while I'm on my back.
With a TIG, an amatuer can make pretty nice welds on larger sizes of steel, but to do aluminum and thin tube takes some practice.
If I have a lot of weld to lay down on relatively thick material, I borrow a MIG
Phil
I had a 300 amp Hobart commercial TIG with a water cooled torch before I had this one. Like the big syncrowave 250, it had a lot of power and features, but the footprint is so large it was cumbersome to use. Power was sometimes a problem on a 50 amp 220 service.
99.9% of the time the small Lincoln TIG does everything that the big Hobart would do. A watercooled torch was nice, but only necessary when doing a lot of heavy aluminum work.
The TIG is incredibly flexable because it can weld down to .025" tubing or up to about .25". The problem is that it is slow and fussy. Fit-ups neet to be precise with a TIG, laying down a bead is about 25% as fast as a MIG, and you've got to be able to get your foot on the pedal, one hand with rod and the other with the torch, which limits where you can get to with the TIG. Overheads are a challenge. I sometimes have to call one of the kids to run the pedal while I'm on my back.
With a TIG, an amatuer can make pretty nice welds on larger sizes of steel, but to do aluminum and thin tube takes some practice.
If I have a lot of weld to lay down on relatively thick material, I borrow a MIG
Phil
05-25-2004, 12:22 PM
#5
Phil,
You need to pick up a torch control instead of a footpedal for those hard to reach areas. They take some practice, but is very convienent when doing those hard to reach areas like your referring to.
When referring to footprint, I'm unsure what your referring to...do you mean the size of the machine? It shouldn't need moved to often, it has a 25ft line, so it goes in many positions. If space is an issue though, the whole package can take up some space:-). Its about 5 feet tall with the whole seup. Without the cooler, it is about half the height. Looks much smaller...With the tig runner package, it is very mobile if necessary. I forgot to mention another benfit of these machines now is their fan on demand, as it keeps shop noise down...There's nothing more annoying then hearing fans blaring all day long...lol
I feel a water-cooled torch is a must. ...as mentioned before, they are smaller in size then insulated non-watercooled torches which makes them able to fit in the smaller areas and easier to control.
If your running it on 240V, a 125amp circuit is necessary. If power is an issue, you can use a power correction unit which drops the imput amps to ~55.
If the above is still too much, the 180 may be a better choice.
There are other good products on the market...I really like miller products, they are the industry standard for a reason. The duty cycles on them are very good...and the internals are all copper high quality parts. It's funny, I see some machines rave about their amperage, but their duty cycles and welding curves suck...who wants a machine that is a 200amp machine at a duty cycle of 20%...welding for 2 minutes out of ten then have to wait for the machine to cool down is not very good...pay attention to your duty cycles when considering a unit
Steve
Pres.
You need to pick up a torch control instead of a footpedal for those hard to reach areas. They take some practice, but is very convienent when doing those hard to reach areas like your referring to.
When referring to footprint, I'm unsure what your referring to...do you mean the size of the machine? It shouldn't need moved to often, it has a 25ft line, so it goes in many positions. If space is an issue though, the whole package can take up some space:-). Its about 5 feet tall with the whole seup. Without the cooler, it is about half the height. Looks much smaller...With the tig runner package, it is very mobile if necessary. I forgot to mention another benfit of these machines now is their fan on demand, as it keeps shop noise down...There's nothing more annoying then hearing fans blaring all day long...lol
I feel a water-cooled torch is a must. ...as mentioned before, they are smaller in size then insulated non-watercooled torches which makes them able to fit in the smaller areas and easier to control.
If your running it on 240V, a 125amp circuit is necessary. If power is an issue, you can use a power correction unit which drops the imput amps to ~55.
If the above is still too much, the 180 may be a better choice.
There are other good products on the market...I really like miller products, they are the industry standard for a reason. The duty cycles on them are very good...and the internals are all copper high quality parts. It's funny, I see some machines rave about their amperage, but their duty cycles and welding curves suck...who wants a machine that is a 200amp machine at a duty cycle of 20%...welding for 2 minutes out of ten then have to wait for the machine to cool down is not very good...pay attention to your duty cycles when considering a unit
Steve
Pres.
05-25-2004, 10:51 PM
#6
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Yep, the key word there is 'practice'. I think you are talking about a pro shop versus a competent home hobby shop.
A TIG machine is something I enjoy using, but I probably average 125 cubic feet of argon every other month, so I don't weld enough to get practice, especially with overheads, which I might do once or twice a year. I tried the hand control on the big Hobart and I couldn't get used to it. Just takes practice I guess.
I have a relattively small home shop, about 600 square feet, and the big Hobart took up almost 3' x4' with gas bottle on a roller cart along with the water cooler for the torch. Add a 3x3' welding bench and you've sucked up a major part of your space, at least in my shop. I keep the little Lincoln under the welding bench, so it does double duty. A friend has a Syncrowave 250 and it is almost as big as my Hobart, but he doesn't mind since he has twice the space I do. I weld with his machine every once in a while - what a treat because it is nice and very flexible/adjustable.
There is no doubt that the Syncrowave and the big Miller TIGs are the "all-meat weenie" of welders, but for the semi-serious home shop, the little Lincoln TIG is an excellent value for the money. Right behind it is the Miller 250 MIG
I've borrowed the Miller wire feed MIG (250?)from my brother, and that is also an excellent machine. You get a reasonable weld right out of the box and with a little practice, they come out excellent. Changing wire size for different material thickness is a little fussy, and it goes thru gas pretty quick, but you can really lay some weld with that thing.
No matter which welder you buy, spring for a good auto darkening helmet.
The welding class I took at the local community college was very helpful even though it was oxy accetlyne. You can sometimes get really good deals on welding equipment from the schools too.
A TIG machine is something I enjoy using, but I probably average 125 cubic feet of argon every other month, so I don't weld enough to get practice, especially with overheads, which I might do once or twice a year. I tried the hand control on the big Hobart and I couldn't get used to it. Just takes practice I guess.
I have a relattively small home shop, about 600 square feet, and the big Hobart took up almost 3' x4' with gas bottle on a roller cart along with the water cooler for the torch. Add a 3x3' welding bench and you've sucked up a major part of your space, at least in my shop. I keep the little Lincoln under the welding bench, so it does double duty. A friend has a Syncrowave 250 and it is almost as big as my Hobart, but he doesn't mind since he has twice the space I do. I weld with his machine every once in a while - what a treat because it is nice and very flexible/adjustable.
There is no doubt that the Syncrowave and the big Miller TIGs are the "all-meat weenie" of welders, but for the semi-serious home shop, the little Lincoln TIG is an excellent value for the money. Right behind it is the Miller 250 MIG
I've borrowed the Miller wire feed MIG (250?)from my brother, and that is also an excellent machine. You get a reasonable weld right out of the box and with a little practice, they come out excellent. Changing wire size for different material thickness is a little fussy, and it goes thru gas pretty quick, but you can really lay some weld with that thing.
No matter which welder you buy, spring for a good auto darkening helmet.
The welding class I took at the local community college was very helpful even though it was oxy accetlyne. You can sometimes get really good deals on welding equipment from the schools too.
05-25-2004, 11:53 PM
#7
Phil,
Yea, I guess it can be a bit overkill, but I look as buy it once and never again...lol space can be an overall issue when you don't have much to spare.
Good point on the helmet...somethings guys can overlook easily...you only get two eyes so treat them carefully. Don't forget the proper clothing. A good mask isn't a bad idea either...most guys don't use them, but some of the by-products can be carcinogenic...keep your skin covered!
On a side note, not sure of your experience with different tungstens...if you haven't tried 2% lanthanated tungsten...the stuff works VERY good...you may consider picking some up and triing some if you haven't already...very good overall, AC and DC. Zirconiated is a great AC tungsten. I don't know why guys still even use stuff like pure tungsten these days...they certainly wouldn't if they tried some of the previously mentioned.
Yea, I guess it can be a bit overkill, but I look as buy it once and never again...lol space can be an overall issue when you don't have much to spare.
Good point on the helmet...somethings guys can overlook easily...you only get two eyes so treat them carefully. Don't forget the proper clothing. A good mask isn't a bad idea either...most guys don't use them, but some of the by-products can be carcinogenic...keep your skin covered!
On a side note, not sure of your experience with different tungstens...if you haven't tried 2% lanthanated tungsten...the stuff works VERY good...you may consider picking some up and triing some if you haven't already...very good overall, AC and DC. Zirconiated is a great AC tungsten. I don't know why guys still even use stuff like pure tungsten these days...they certainly wouldn't if they tried some of the previously mentioned.
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05-30-2004, 10:15 PM
#8
8 Second Club
Miller i have a Syncrowave 180SD and i use the syn400 (i think) at work it has the water cool head nice but$$$$ the 180 is smoth and has foot controle the only thing i dont like is the tungstun is cold till you turn the switch are hit the pedal this is good as far as mis arcs but if you do tight places the thumb switch is bulky you cant hold rig in one hand filler in other and have the thumb off the rig no way to turn on i have some one run the switch for me i do roll cages and other tight stuff. and you can do crome molly that is why i bought it hope this helps like some others have said get you a auto dark hood later PMB
05-31-2004, 01:07 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Anyone have any hints on welding positions, amps, ect. I have gotten the butt welds down to a science. Having a little trouble making the T welds (PIpes to flanges).
Phillip
Phillip
Here's some general rules of thumb:
Start with 1 amp for each thousandth of an Inch of thickness (0.001")
i.e. 1/8 steel or AL .125 thick=125 amps
inside fillet welds increase 30%
outside fillet welds decrease 30%
SS decrease by 30%
CU increase 100%
bronze decrease 50%
Not sure of your tungsten choices but see my above recommendations.
Filler material...ER70S-2 is standard...ER70S-6 has higher tensile strength properties w/higher yield strengths as well. It will also pool a bit smoother then ER70S-2.
If you have a pulsar which is gods gift to tig welding, amperages will vary depending on your peak current, background current, pulse width, and pulse frequency. If your not familar with a pulsar, it is benifitial by improving weld quality and consisitency. It aids poor fit-ups that are more difficult with non-pulsed setups...it also reduces overall heat into the base metal which reduces deflection. In other words GET ONE if you don't have it
. If your looking for a machine and it is not on it OR it is not an option...choose a higher end machine. Picking something a bit overkill is the best choice for down the road use...having to pre-heat, or make other adjustments can be a pain in the butt if your unit can handle the loads.Regarding the gun control...the button from plasma cutter torches is best.
They are rubber covered and insulated. They cost about 20.00 and you can just tape them to the gun...works much better imho. YOu can also use "lift arc" settings on your machine, if it has it...another reason to get upgraded machines
hope this helps,
Steve
Pres.
Last edited by steve10; 05-31-2004 at 01:14 PM.
06-09-2004, 05:52 PM
#12
I would personally get a Miller Dynasty 200DX.
Compact, will walk a 180 no sweat, can use a 110 or 220 outlets, and has all the nice stuff youll need ( Pulser, ramp rates, pre/post flow, ect.)
I use about 12-1500 Cubic feet/month with a Syncrowave 250 and a Dialarc HF.
What ever you choose, go Miller. We had a lincoln 375 and got rid of it real quick.
Here are some pics
Can weld @ 50 amps, 3/32 pure tungsten
A-Arm, 150 amps, 4130 tube and plate -3/32 2% tungsten
Compact, will walk a 180 no sweat, can use a 110 or 220 outlets, and has all the nice stuff youll need ( Pulser, ramp rates, pre/post flow, ect.)
I use about 12-1500 Cubic feet/month with a Syncrowave 250 and a Dialarc HF.
What ever you choose, go Miller. We had a lincoln 375 and got rid of it real quick.
Here are some pics
Can weld @ 50 amps, 3/32 pure tungsten
A-Arm, 150 amps, 4130 tube and plate -3/32 2% tungsten
