novawagonmaster

Recently inherited a red 1998 Camaro Z-28 SS coupe with a 6-speed manual trans and only 7000 miles on the clock. The car looks perfect inside and out. It still has the original tires on it (confirmed by DOT date code). It has the correct ram air fiberglass hood. I've looked at the option label and it has the correct codes for Z28 and SS by SLP.

One thing I am not sure of... what type of exhaust came on this car? It has a chambered system on it that looks like a GMMG setup, but I don't know if that is original or was added sometime later.

It's a great car, but it has come into my life at the wrong time. I already have a couple toys, and I am currently remodeling our home so we can sell it and build a new one. I've done a little looking online, and it seems as though prices for something like this are all over the place. What do you guys think?

BBWS6

iTrader: (2)

Pictures would be nice.

novawagonmaster

Haven't taken any yet. We have snow on the ground, so the car is safely tucked away in the garage. If we get a break in the weather, I will bring it outside and take some pics. Of course that will be necessary before it actually goes up for sale. Let's assume the car looks like you would expect a car with 7000 miles to look like. It's bright red with charcoal interior.

NC01TA

Any sub 10,000 miles LS1 F-body (1998-2002) will command a premium and therefore much higher prices than any book value. In fact, don't even look at book values for cars like these. Your car is one that should start high (Like $20,000 OBO) and if no buyers, slowly lower the price until you find that special buyer. No way will it ever be lower than $15k. You will most likely end up in the higher teens. Just be patient during these winter months. Things will pick up in the Spring if you don't sell for the right price in the meantime. If I personally was looking for your car I would pay $16,000 - $17,000 if truly an excellent one owner garage kept example. Good luck!!

novawagonmaster

Thanks NC01TA, that's the kind of feedback I am looking for. I knew it had to be worth more than what sites like KBB and NADA were showing. I just didn't know where the value would top out. Any idea on the exhaust?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is hard to assume as we've lately seen some very low mileage examples (under 20k) in this section that didn't look nearly as nice as they should. Words like "perfect" don't seem to carry much objective meaning in this regard. To solidly land in the upper most tier of pricing, you'll want to present the car properly as the show piece that it should be at said mileage. Things like dust and dirt should be completely absent from visible areas of the engine bay, wheel wells, fuel fill area, jambs, etc. (those are some commonly overlooked areas, even at 4-digit mileage.)

The base system for 1998 Camaro SS was a single outlet, rolled edge polished tip on the driver's side. If the car had additional Y2Y options from SLP, then it could have been optioned with a system called "SLP dual/dual" - that system included two tail pipes with split tips on each side (hence "dual/dual".) This is listed as an option in the '98 SLP literature, but very few '98 cars were optioned with it (I don't think it was available until nearly the end of '98 production.) This is not a "chambered" system though, it uses a turbo style muffler that looks very similar to a stock muffler on the outside (nothing at all like GMMG.)

Have you checked the supplemental SLP door sticker on the passenger side for optional SLP content? It should be present if any Y2Y options were ordered (Y2Y is the RPO used to indicate content above and beyond the base SS [WU8] package - on your '98 this RPO would only be present on the SPID if you did in fact have options that were not included in the base SS package. In the later years, the "Y2Y" RPO appeared on all SS examples even if they were simply a base SS car, this was done to make it easier for purchasers to add extra SLP content after the order was already placed - or so I've heard.)

novawagonmaster

Thank you for the info! The car is squeaky clean in all of the areas you mentioned. The original owner did a good job of keeping it clean. He made it easy on himself (and me) by only taking it out on sunny summer days. Additionally, I spent two full days going over every nook and crevice after I had the car towed home. I still have to detail the underside, but that will not take long because it's really that clean.

I'm kinda bummed out that the exhaust isn't original, but from what I have read, the GMMG is a nice system. It does sound good!

I do not have Y2Y on the option label. I will look for the label in the passenger side door jamb. I really appreciate the heads up!

Thanks,
Jon

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like an excellent specimen then, and it seems that you're the type who understands what is necessary for top tier presentation if you've put in that much time on an already clean car. It would be a treat to see some pictures in the future.

I didn't have a chance before, but I wanted to post some images of the two stock exhaust systems for your reference. This first image is of the base '98 SS system (non-Y2Y) from GM (single outlet tip, driver's side, polished & rolled edge):



And here is the optional SLP "dual/dual" that was available as a Y2Y option:



Removal of the factory system is fairly common on the base '98 SS and WS6 cars, even very low mileage otherwise stock ones, as the single tip outlet wasn't popular. GMMG is a nice setup and does sound great.

Here is an image of some 1998 SLP literature, showing optional content (Y2Y) that could be ordered on SS:



Lastly, here is an image of the supplemental passenger side door sticker that lists additional SLP content for cars that received optional Y2Y features (this particular image is obviously from a 2002 model, not all Y2Y options were the same for every year):

NC01TA

^^^ Man, what a wealth of information!!
In all my years of being on different forums, both foreign and domestic, this is the very best site!! We are very fortunate members.
When I was a teenager all we had was word of mouth, and usually from friends who knew as little as you did. No computers, no TV shows that dealt with cars, no nothing but magazines.
Sorry novawagonmaster, got off topic. Best of luck with your sale. Glad to have assisted. From what you have since described, my pricing info still sounds accurate.

dojob

Based on yr, mileage condition, and lack of modifications it should get $15-20k depending on the RIGHT buyer. Easiest way to "value" the car would be to look through SOLD prices from auctions on comparable cars.

GMMG exhaust is a gentlemen's exhaust. It's a high priced system, originally produced to depict the chambered exhaust found on 1st gen camaros, for the specialty B4C based Camaros GMMG produced... so it's a Camaro heritage based exhaust. It's not an obnoxious aftermarket exhaust like an SLP loudmouth. So if anything it should have no relative depreciation of your car, IMO.

Details will make or break the car to get a premium for the sale price:
-unless the garage is properly climate controlled, even moisture can cause the undercarriage to corrode/rust on these cars
-chrome wheels can do the same, need upkeep even when stored
-all the rubber should be inspected, hoses, weather seals,
-interior should look factory fresh, no damage (cracks in dash, seats, wear, etc), not greasy from nonsense products like Armor All
-wheel wells cleaned (biggest oversight people make cleaning/preparing a car, especially noticeable in pictures)
-general wipe down... engine bay detailed, undercarriage (under engine, exhaust, rocker panels), pull the wheels and do everything you can see essentially

If the car is a hard top not a T-top car, that is a guaranteed boost in value.

novawagonmaster

That's some great info. Thanks a million!
Apparently this car does not have any Y2Y options. That code is not listed on the driver's door, there is no supplemental label on the passenger door, and I don't believe the car is equipped with any additional SLP goodies listed on that promo literature. I promise I will post some pics in the near future.

I grew up on old GM cars, but somehow got mixed up in late model Mopars when I bought a Challenger back in 2009. I have been a part of the LXForums late model Hemi community ever since (even though that car is long gone). Sounds like you guys have the same sense of family here that we do do over there. In the end, we are all just average guys who share a passion for cars. I try not to get caught up in the brand bashing. We can all get along.

Thanks for the insight. Glad to hear the exhaust isn't going to have a big impact on value. It does seem like a nice setup.

Oh, and yes, it is a hard top!

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree! LS1Tech is over 15 years old now, and I hope we're still here for another 15 and beyond.

A few additional thoughts:

The rear axle came bare (unpainted) from the factory, so this is certain to have surface rust unless someone has painted it or used a protective coating/sealant. The industrial coating/light paint found on certain parts (such as control arms, etc.) is also prone to allowing surface rust to develop from moisture over the years. Other areas, such as the floor pans and sub-frame structure, are not subject to this concern as they are better coated/painted.

Unless the garage is really damp, such as a very high humidity climate, and/or the wheels have been stored with corrosive build-up still on the surface (excessive brake dust, especially from semi-metallic pads, or road salt, etc.), this should not be an issue. I've stored cars for many years in non-climate controlled garages here in the Great Lakes region without any chrome damage. Having said that, as the OP's car doesn't have any Y2Y options, it wouldn't have chrome wheels if they are still stock. The base WU8 package for '98 included silver painted "C4 ZR1-style" wheels in a 17x9"/50mm offset size with a polished lip and red bowtie centercap. The OP mentioned it still has original tires as well, which would be Goodyear Eagle F1 GS, 275/40/17. These exact tires can be seen in the image I posted above of the black '98 SS convertible with SLP "dual/dual" exhaust.

I agree, but based on the garage kept and careful usage description from the OP, there should be no issues in this area. My '98 has more than double the miles (17k) and all its original hoses and weather strips are still in excellent condition. I do, however, keep all of these areas treated annually with 303 Protectant (and have for over a decade).

I definitely agree here. I see this all the time with low mileage cars that are advertised as "spotless, perfect, mint, best in the world, etc."

This, however, I disagree with. Value for a t-top model will likely be higher (or at least not lower) in this case, since the general desirability of a hardtop is found more with the crowd who intends to race/modify. Those folks won't be interested in paying top dollar for a show quality vehicle. As the car is one of the most common SS colors (red), rarity of the hardtop model isn't a major factor in value either.

Also, assuming the car was built in or after 05/98 (as the majority of SS models were - production of SS didn't ramp up until nearly the end of the '98 model year), it is subject to the bubbling roof condition (details here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/paint-bod...e-dummies.html ) Repair of this condition is considerably more difficult and costly on a hardtop example (vs. t-top), so that's another factor which will influence value in the eyes of a knowledgeable shopper. If the car is an earlier model built prior to May of '98, then this is a non-issue and therefore not a factor.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Glad to help, and will be looking forward to the pictures!

novawagonmaster

You are correct on both the silver wheels and the Goodyear tires.

This car was built in 01/98.

dojob

Post #2 has the production number breakdown file
https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...reakdowns.html

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Wow, very lucky to have a hardtop SS built early enough to not have roof worries! That alone makes it very desirable to me. Honestly, if the car was an automatic I would be very interested.

novawagonmaster

Interesting data. Thank you!

novawagonmaster

Funny how when I am out to buy a car, I can research them to death. But the way this one just plopped into my lap, I feel like I don't know the first thing about it. This all feels so backwards to me. Thanks to you and the others, I feel like I am shortcutting the learning process by leaps and bounds.

I know how you feel about the auto/manual trans thing. When I bought my 2009 Challenger, I thought it would be a riot to get a 6-speed. I had that car exactly 12 months and traded it in for the auto, and everything has been glorious ever since. I do a fair amount of street driving, but I really enjoy 1/4 mile racing. For that, you just cannot beat the automatics!

Thanks again,
Jon

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

It’s great that you’ve taken the time to learn about these key aspects prior to presenting the car, and I'm glad we were able to help. Some folks skip this step, and then post an ad or have a conversation with a potential buyer where they present information or claims as though they are an expert. Their mistakes are quickly spotted by those more knowledgeable about the platform, which then calls into question the integrity of the seller - meaning, is he just uninformed or being purposefully dishonest? Of course, we all have to start somewhere when learning a new-to-us car, but false claims in a sales ad is generally more indicative of dishonesty rather than simple (and excusable) ignorance.

Here’s a great example of such:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/5948505547.html

This owner has misrepresented some important facts about his car. The ad claims that it’s “totally unmodified and unmolested in perfect condition”. This is not true. That exhaust system appears to be an aftermarket SLP catback (based on the tips), likely either the “SLP Loudmouth” I or II. This system was not a factory/SLP Y2Y option on any year, and was definitely installed post-delivery. Or perhaps just the tips were changed but, regardless, what is visible of the exhaust is not stock. Then there is the “SLP” badge just beside the “SS” badge near the passenger side tail light. This badge was not part of any Y2Y option or package, nor part of the base WU8 package; these were sold years ago as an aftermarket item via SLPonline.com. Lastly, there is the bowtie grille - also an aftermarket SLP item. There was a similar grille available as a Y2Y option, but those had an “SS” in the middle rather than a bowtie. There are no engine bay pictures, but my guess is that this car likely also has an aftermarket SLP (or equivalent) air lid and possibly a smooth bellow installed (these are very common modifications which are often installed on cars that also have the above mentioned SLP “Loudmouth” catback.)

There certainly isn’t anything wrong with any of these modifications, but an uninformed seller who makes such definite (but incorrect) claims, as shown in this ad, risks being seen as dishonest. Better to say nothing than to make false claims....but the best option is obviously to do some research and be informed. He could have simply come to LS1Tech, just like you, and quickly learned all these facts about his vehicle.

And since we’re also on the topic of condition and price, the ’01 SS in this ad is a good example of one that’s overpriced - especially for its presentation. This is not a $21.5k car at all; it’s arguably the least desirable color and it’s certainly not “perfect” as presented. The wheel well lips and inner hoop of the wheels are visibly dirty and, based on this, I’m sure a great deal of other areas are not perfectly detailed either. The ad is written in such a way as to suggest that this is a “perfect” show-worthy vehicle (which would be expected at that price), but it has certainly not been detailed as such in those photos. Many enthusiasts don’t seem to truly understand the difference between “clean” and “CLEAN.”

Firebrian

That's a very nice car you have there. I think the 1998 version is a big plus.

I purchased my 1 owner '99 SS M6 red/cloth interior with SLP content (dual-dual exhaust, Auburn rear end, SS mats, Key fobs), TTops, no traction control, with 12,500 miles in Jan 2012 for $11,950. It wasn't a lucky find as the car was offered on Ebay at auction and I was the high bidder out of 3 of us who were over the $11,500 mark. It was on original tires in excellent condition. So based on that I'm not in the camp that your car is worth $5K more than my car, 5 years later. Doesn't make sense. When SS prices peaked 1-2 years ago you could find a more desirable 2002 SS M6 with 7K-10K miles for $16,500-$17,000. I saw several sell out of California on Ebay in the $16's. And they are even cheaper today, maybe $15's. Figure most people will want to pay $2500-$3000 less for a 1998 ($600-$800 less per model year drop). The 2001/2002 SS are worth $1,000-$1,500 more than the earlier years just based on the perceived performance differences/upgrades. Not saying I agree 100% with that....just that market pricing seems to dictate that.

I'd put your 1998 M6 at around $13,000-$14,500...maybe more to someone who has to have a '98 SS with very low miles. Figure -$500 for the lack of TTops which most buyers would be looking for. A few will consider a hardtop a plus, but likely won't want to pay for that scarcer "option." For a comparable car, there was a 1999 SS silver A4 with 9500 miles offered out of New York on autotrader for $13,500 last year. It didn't sell, at least not for months. Figure that was really closer to $13K. Then add $1K-$1.5K for the M6.....$14K. If you start off pricing the car at $18K or higher, I don't think you'll get many responses.

I don't see anything magical about having a car at 7K miles vs. 12K miles, other than they are worth about $500 difference for that mileage. Figure premiums $600-$1,000 per 10K miles on low mile SS's. Where the premium goes off the chart would be sub 5K mile cars, and preferably sub-3K. 2 years ago I recall a black '99 WS6 M6 with 3K miles being bid up and soldon Ebay to $19K. It was discussed here in WIW. Figure $2K less for an SS and $2K for the mileage difference....$15K net for a comparable '99 SS. Note that was a strong price for a '99 then which I don't think would come close to being met today. My '99 SS is now up to 18K miles along with having to spend $1500 in tires, AC parts, and fluid exchanges. I figure today it's worth around $12,500 tops. How much more would it be worth at 8K miles (10K less miles)?

Can anyone show me a 7K-10K "regular" Camaro SS M6 selling for more than $17,800 in the past year? And that includes the 2001/2002 cars. 2002 LE anniversary, GMMG, 1LE, Pace Cars, or rare colored verts are not included. And to get to the $20K level now, the mileage almost needs to be sub-5,000. Special or very low mileage WS6's can reach $20K, but for the SS's it's not likely unless 0-3,000 miles. I have no doubt that most sellers of 15K and under cars are "asking" $20K and up....almost none or none are getting that. I recall a local 2000 SS A4 vert with 44K miles with the seller asking $17K on Ebay. I asked them where'd they come up with that? I figured it was worth $12K. Their reply was that what it was worth that to them.....or they weren't selling. I've seen that same car pop up each year since....same price....no action. Any buyer of a '98 SS has to be cash only. That's hard to find. And at the $18K level you aren't far from what a 15k mile C5 Vette would bring....the C5 Z06's with 20K-25K miles are in the $21K-$23K range. Paying a few thousand more for a 2001-2002 395-405 hp Z06 makes a lot of sense with someone having $20K to blow. And they can probably get a bank loan for that car....but likely not for an $18K SS. As the price of the 2004-2012 400-475 hp performance cars continue to drop down, that only will make our cherished F bodies seem that much less important.

If your car were a WS6 I think the demand would be many times stronger. I think a 7K WS6 M6 would be a fairly easy sell at the $17K-$18K level. Not so for the SS imo. They are looked at as totally different vehicles....even if in reality they are 95-99% identical in performance. 80-90% of all sellers are out to lunch on asking prices. It's the low 10% of cars (for the same quality) that actually sell. And I continue to see the same low mileage SS's for sale year after year. I wonder how many of them are really finding new owners? Nearby me is a silver 1999 Z28 A4 with 19K miles....the dealer (RedRoof) has been asking $11,500-$12,000 for the past 3 years w/o success. What's up with that? What will it take to actually sell it? $11K? $10,500? I don't think many stock, low mileage SS's have been trading hands recently. And the $12,500 estimated value for my car is based on actual sales this year. I saw a few similar cars sell for peanuts this past summer/fall....ouch, the first big drop since 2012. So I realized the value of my car dropped $500-$1,000 this year, for whatever the reason.

The value of our cars seems to like to follow the stock market wiggles. And until Nov 9th, the SM was getting whacked the 2nd half of 2016. And then the Trump turnaround occurred. I don't think that it is yet reflected in our car prices as the winter doldrums have masked over it for now. By April/May we should know better.