I just started looking for my first F-Body.


Comparing asking prices to NADA and Bluebook I'm seeing the asking prices are all quite a bit higher.


For instance... a 2002 Camaro SS with 47K on it. (pretty much stock)


The seller is asking $13K KBB and NADA are saying 9K range


I don't want to be out of line with offers. I'm just looking to pay what the car is worth.


I've been hitting up CL pretty hard and looking on this site... Any other suggestions?

 

KBB and NADA are just guides. And they are the most accurate for F bodies with very high mileage (150K). As the mileage lowers they get further off. For cars under 65K miles they could be up to 25-45% off. Then again, we can't expect for a general price guide to keep up in niche market that's now 15-20 yrs old. Those are great price guides for dealers who buy cars and accept trade-ins.

Once you get your feet dirty by looking at a lot of ads you'll get a handle on what is selling and what isn't. Check out autotrader.com, Ebay "completed" and "sold" listings. The bottom priced 10-20% of all listed vehicles have a chance of selling, the upper 75% probably don't have a prayer. And that's where most sellers start out at.

Your 2002 SS with 47K miles is possibly closer to $13K than the $9K KBB/NADA. The price guides also don't give any premiums for an M6. And typically those bring about 10% more money vs. an A4 automatic. The price guides won't tell you there's a premium for low production colors like SOM....or that extra SLP content could add another 5-15% to a car's price. The price guides won't differentiate from a 1-2 owner car vs. a 3-5 owner one. Stock vs. modified is another thing to navigate. It all makes a difference. The more you look, the more you will start to learn.

If your 2002 SS at 47K is a 1-2 owner M6, it could be priced fairly at $13K. If a more beat up 4 owner A4 with bubbling roof paint, maybe only $10-11K.

 

That is some great information.


I'm learning already. I just started looking a little over a week ago. Hope to find something for this summer, but no rush.

 

Great comments above from Firebrian.

In addition, the price "guides" don't always accurately reflect regional differences either. If you are also looking at cars in the Chicago area (which is likely based on your listed location), and you want one that's been spared any winter exposure, then you'll be paying an extra premium. In terms of examples that were daily driven at some point, cars from the south and west are generally in better shape so you can usually find a better deal on a nice one outside of the rust belt. But if you want to shop local and get one with a rust free undercarriage and engine bay, you'll have to pay the garage queen/summer toy premium. You could travel and/or have one shipped from a better climate, but that comes with additional expense and/or risk so either way it's going to be a bit more expensive to get a nice 15-20 year old car in this region than if you lived in the south/southwest. Just something else to keep in mind while shopping.

I'm always watching the local (Chicago) Craigslist for 4th gens, mostly Camaros. I've only seen a few good/decent deals recently, most aren't priced right and will remain for sale for ages, and/or they are just not nice enough to be worth buying as a "toy" IMO. Here is one that I found, perhaps you've already seen the ad:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/6050149379.html

Not sure if you want a 6-speed or not (personally I'm an auto-only enthusiast.) Seems like a reasonable asking price to start for a winter-free M6 SS car of that mileage and apparent condition, you could probably get it down some more if the car is still available. Looks like the grille and wheels are different in some of the images, so no telling when those pictures were taken (meaning the car might not still be as nice in person, you'd just have to go see it.) Looks like he's close to Channahon, so not terribly far from you.

 

I missed that one... Just called and left a message.
Im searching all over, will see what turns up. I'm open to manual or Auto. I think both have their benefits.

Thanks!

 

I am hesitant to rely on price guides for cars that are especially desirable.

When I bought my white 74 SD455 T/A 4-spd (1985) and my red 73 SD455 (1989), I paid about 20 - 25% over Old Car Price Guide estimated values. One of my friends passed on the red 73 SD because it was overpriced. I know he regrets passing on the car.

If a car is average mileage for the age, then KBB and NADA are probably accurate. If it well cared for and low mileage, I would only use it as a starting point.

 

I certainly agree. Price guides are useful tools for typical average mileage cars but totally inaccurate for special cars, especially very low mileage examples. As discussed many times in this section, not differentiating between a 1 owner car with full history and a 4 owner car with none is opening yourself up for some wild swings in pricing. It isn't just 'excellent' 'good' etc... for serious car buyers.

 

When I was looking for various 1968-1971 Muscle Mopars from 1991-2004 the price guides weren't always much help. Ball parking it only. Frequently, I assigned up to 30-50% premiums on otherwise "similarly" looking cars. Factors such as original owner, miles, age of restoration or decent orig paint, all rust free and original factory body panels, factory documentation like build sheets, owner histories and maintenance records, #'s matching drive train, paint color, interior color, options package (power features ps-pdb-pw, console shift, bucket seats, performance sure grip rear end, 4 speed, decals or stripes, ram air/air grabbers, multi-carbs, rally dash package, etc.) were all things that could swing price a LOT. The 4 speed alone on a desirable car was a 10-20% premium. Black or factory "optical" colored cars tended to carry a 10-15% or more premium to mundane or common colors. Price guides couldn't possibly keep up with all this. You could have two cars in #2 condition with one being worth $35K and the other $50K.

Back then, black cars only made up 1-3% of regular production....much different than our 1998-2002 F bodies where black (and red) are usually the most common colors by quite a bit. In comparison, a WS6 only varies by condition/mileage, paint color, transmission, # owners, stock vs. non-stock. The SS's and Firehawks could be ordered with additional SLP content so their pricing has a little more variation.