pro stars fit over vette brakes?
10-13-2003, 08:12 AM
#4
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? David,
Are you just swaping the calipers or doing the LG kit?
I plan to put a set of Z06 calipers on my car with the stock rotors. But, I'm not bolting them up till my Bogarts get here. Want to make sure they fit
good lord.. 3 revision to get right.. rough morning
Are you just swaping the calipers or doing the LG kit?
I plan to put a set of Z06 calipers on my car with the stock rotors. But, I'm not bolting them up till my Bogarts get here. Want to make sure they fit
good lord.. 3 revision to get right.. rough morning
10-13-2003, 09:55 AM
#6
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? Well, if you go with the vette rotors. I doubt any standard skinnies would work. If that is the case, contact Steve about possiblity of Bogarts
www.mycamaroz28.homestead.com
www.mycamaroz28.homestead.com
10-13-2003, 08:38 PM
#7
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes?
David,
Are you just swaping the calipers or doing the LG kit?
I plan to put a set of Z06 calipers on my car with the stock rotors. But, I'm not bolting them up till my Bogarts get here. Want to make sure they fit
good lord.. 3 revision to get right.. rough morning
Are you just swaping the calipers or doing the LG kit?
I plan to put a set of Z06 calipers on my car with the stock rotors. But, I'm not bolting them up till my Bogarts get here. Want to make sure they fit
good lord.. 3 revision to get right.. rough morning
Dope
Trending Topics
10-13-2003, 09:20 PM
#8
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes?
Z06 calipers are completely identical to your stock calipers, so of course they'll fit. They are just red and supposedly cast differently.
Dope
Dope
If it comes to that, I'll just keep the stockers and paint them.
10-13-2003, 09:49 PM
#9
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? The larger vette rotors are not user friendly with 15 inch rims...so far, we haven't been able to work with a combination to get that size to fit.
Regarding changing the calipers alone, I’m not sure how that will work. From our discussion, John will be doing some testing. Only problem I foresee is the upgrade in braking capabilities may cause some serious side effects. Here's the scenario:
Right now, stock brake setups are proportioned for stock sized tire-to-ground-contact patch area's frictional characteristics(Front to rear)...when changing front and rear tires, you change the stopping characteristics of your car. This can create a difference in your stopping ability.
With slicks and skinnies, the fronts lock up A LOT easier then the rears due to the contact area...compounding the issue by increasing front tire pressure to reduce tire contact area makes it worse.
If you still have ABS, then it can start feeling pretty crazy especially if there are different tire sizes involved. If you don't and hopefully run an ADJUSTABLE proportioning valve as I've suggested many times...the valve can help bias your wheels out much better.
Ok now to the topic of higher stopping powered brakes (front only)...you now, keeping the stock rear brakes have unbiased your brake setup...furthermore, using skinnies REALLY can throw things off. Your fronts, now can and will lock up VERY easily especially without the use of an adjustable proportioning valve...if you have a valve USE IT PLEASE.
My main concern is from a safety standpoint. From utilizing higher stopping power front brakes, keeping the stock rear brakes, and using skinnies, I’m afraid of guys loosing control from locking the fronts up at 135mph and loosing control. ABS won't help matters.
There will probably be people whom disagree with my comments...from engineering and physics standpoint, what I’ve discussed makes sense.
Please be careful.
Regarding changing the calipers alone, I’m not sure how that will work. From our discussion, John will be doing some testing. Only problem I foresee is the upgrade in braking capabilities may cause some serious side effects. Here's the scenario:
Right now, stock brake setups are proportioned for stock sized tire-to-ground-contact patch area's frictional characteristics(Front to rear)...when changing front and rear tires, you change the stopping characteristics of your car. This can create a difference in your stopping ability.
With slicks and skinnies, the fronts lock up A LOT easier then the rears due to the contact area...compounding the issue by increasing front tire pressure to reduce tire contact area makes it worse.
If you still have ABS, then it can start feeling pretty crazy especially if there are different tire sizes involved. If you don't and hopefully run an ADJUSTABLE proportioning valve as I've suggested many times...the valve can help bias your wheels out much better.
Ok now to the topic of higher stopping powered brakes (front only)...you now, keeping the stock rear brakes have unbiased your brake setup...furthermore, using skinnies REALLY can throw things off. Your fronts, now can and will lock up VERY easily especially without the use of an adjustable proportioning valve...if you have a valve USE IT PLEASE.
My main concern is from a safety standpoint. From utilizing higher stopping power front brakes, keeping the stock rear brakes, and using skinnies, I’m afraid of guys loosing control from locking the fronts up at 135mph and loosing control. ABS won't help matters.
There will probably be people whom disagree with my comments...from engineering and physics standpoint, what I’ve discussed makes sense.
Please be careful.
10-14-2003, 07:36 AM
#10
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? so then what do you reccomend i do to stop my car? brakes are currently stock and not working well at all for me on my short home track with drag tires around. just do lines all around? or something else that isnt rediculously expensive?
thanks
thanks
10-14-2003, 01:30 PM
#11
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? If your brakes are overheating, then that's a TOTALLY different scenario... you need to see what issues are occurring. Upgrading to different rotors/pads etc may not be a bad idea...
For fewer complications, stick with rotors that are near stock size AND caliper overhang is not excessively large. Just be sure to balance the cars braking abilities...
When the brakes are balanced you will stop at you SHORTEST distance in a controlled fashion. (The function of abs). As soon as you break static friction (start skidding) between the tires and surface, kinetic friction requires less energy to keep the object in motion...i.e., it will take you longer to stop.
A quick test would be trying to stop in wet conditions, realistically, both sets of wheels should start skidding at the same time. If you don't have ABS, adjust using a proportioning valve if they are not skidding at the same time. I'll assume most guys aren't set up with ABS anymore as many of us are using aftermarket rear-ends without abs...If you still have abs, your brakes are being biased on the fly...only problem is that it will take the pressure off the fronts(assuming the front are slipping first) to eliminate skidding thus relying more on your rear brakes...this is why even upgrading to better rear brakes isn't a bad idea. A proportioning valve for you won’t help as your cars computer is adjusting pressures.
Depending on what is going on with the brakes...Upgraded pads all around would be a relatively inexpensive upgrade...This will make the car feel more responsive. If you can only get the fronts to lock up no matter what you do...I don't feel it's necessary to upgrade the fronts as you'll just lock them quicker. The rear brakes don't do as much work stopping, but changing to better rear brakes will help as those are probably not locking as fast as the fronts.
If your skidding a lot of the times...nothing really will help you stop anymore as your brakes are powerful enough already, only thing I can think of is lightening up your car or putting larger front tires on so that they don't skid so easily...kind of takes away the benefits of skinny tires though :-( Unfortunately, the front brakes do much of the stopping work.
For fewer complications, stick with rotors that are near stock size AND caliper overhang is not excessively large. Just be sure to balance the cars braking abilities...
When the brakes are balanced you will stop at you SHORTEST distance in a controlled fashion. (The function of abs). As soon as you break static friction (start skidding) between the tires and surface, kinetic friction requires less energy to keep the object in motion...i.e., it will take you longer to stop.
A quick test would be trying to stop in wet conditions, realistically, both sets of wheels should start skidding at the same time. If you don't have ABS, adjust using a proportioning valve if they are not skidding at the same time. I'll assume most guys aren't set up with ABS anymore as many of us are using aftermarket rear-ends without abs...If you still have abs, your brakes are being biased on the fly...only problem is that it will take the pressure off the fronts(assuming the front are slipping first) to eliminate skidding thus relying more on your rear brakes...this is why even upgrading to better rear brakes isn't a bad idea. A proportioning valve for you won’t help as your cars computer is adjusting pressures.
Depending on what is going on with the brakes...Upgraded pads all around would be a relatively inexpensive upgrade...This will make the car feel more responsive. If you can only get the fronts to lock up no matter what you do...I don't feel it's necessary to upgrade the fronts as you'll just lock them quicker. The rear brakes don't do as much work stopping, but changing to better rear brakes will help as those are probably not locking as fast as the fronts.
If your skidding a lot of the times...nothing really will help you stop anymore as your brakes are powerful enough already, only thing I can think of is lightening up your car or putting larger front tires on so that they don't skid so easily...kind of takes away the benefits of skinny tires though :-( Unfortunately, the front brakes do much of the stopping work.
10-14-2003, 03:01 PM
#12
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? I've ben doing some reasearch on this - trying to upgrade to a new brake kit while using 15" Bogarts. Baer and Wilwood do not make a kit that will work with the 15" wheels. Brembo hasn't emailed me back but I assume they are the same. I am going to upgrade to some Eradispeed rotors (which should fit) and some Hawk pads and keep my stock calipers. This should improve braking a little...
10-14-2003, 04:21 PM
#13
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? mine just feels like when i put on my big race tires, it just gains about 30% stopping distance, no other changes, and no skidding. i still have abs all the way around and no proportioning valve.. autozone front rotors, vgx pads, stock rear rotors and stock pads
10-14-2003, 05:30 PM
#14
Re: pro stars fit over vette brakes? If you still have functioning ABS, then a seperate valve may not help...only thing it may help on is if your ABS turns active too often...it will prevent the wheels that lock too easily and trip ABS.
Are you certain the front wheels aren't locking before the rears? If your not skidding at all, then the only thing I can say is maybe your overheating them at the track from the hard stops...Realisticly, if your not skidding and all things are equal, you should stop just the same at the track or not.
Since you haven't touched your rear brakes, changing those pads definitily won't hurt and can help some. Remember, even though your front brakes do most of the work, your neglecting your rear brakes...
I personally don't have any experience with VGX brake pads, but from I've read on the net from people whom have had them, they were not well liked pads...here's a quote from one user I randomly snagged "In summation, these pads are fine for the casual driver on the street, and come with a really nice, complete package of hardware, but they are not particularly high-performance pads"...here's another user "I cannot recommend that anyone buy these pads as they fade incredibly fast from heat, and leave you with little or no braking force when you need it most. Under heavy braking, they give off a large amount of black brake dust. "...
the pads were used on a different vehicle but the pads were the same type...Like I said though, I have NO experience with the pads...this is only information that I just gathered for you.
Only brake lines that I would consider changing would be your rubber lines over to performance lines...
I wish I could be of more assistance and solve your brake issues...I posted in this thread as I just want to be certain that guys don't start locking up the fronts with too high braking power on skinnies especially when one does not have ABS. I also wanted to reiterate that your rear brakes although don't have as much stopping force ARE an important factor with stopping your car and not to neglect them.
Are you certain the front wheels aren't locking before the rears? If your not skidding at all, then the only thing I can say is maybe your overheating them at the track from the hard stops...Realisticly, if your not skidding and all things are equal, you should stop just the same at the track or not.
Since you haven't touched your rear brakes, changing those pads definitily won't hurt and can help some. Remember, even though your front brakes do most of the work, your neglecting your rear brakes...
I personally don't have any experience with VGX brake pads, but from I've read on the net from people whom have had them, they were not well liked pads...here's a quote from one user I randomly snagged "In summation, these pads are fine for the casual driver on the street, and come with a really nice, complete package of hardware, but they are not particularly high-performance pads"...here's another user "I cannot recommend that anyone buy these pads as they fade incredibly fast from heat, and leave you with little or no braking force when you need it most. Under heavy braking, they give off a large amount of black brake dust. "...
the pads were used on a different vehicle but the pads were the same type...Like I said though, I have NO experience with the pads...this is only information that I just gathered for you.
Only brake lines that I would consider changing would be your rubber lines over to performance lines...
I wish I could be of more assistance and solve your brake issues...I posted in this thread as I just want to be certain that guys don't start locking up the fronts with too high braking power on skinnies especially when one does not have ABS. I also wanted to reiterate that your rear brakes although don't have as much stopping force ARE an important factor with stopping your car and not to neglect them.
