Mevin

Does anyone know of a place to find concrete evidence that only mid '99 and up Monsoon decks had the changer control capability?

My situation: I read up on this on here and, accordingly, purchased on Ebay a Monsoon CD deck that was stated to be out of a 2001 Trans Am. Sure enough, it arrives and was manufactured in 1997... My only grounds for disputing the claim are that all 2001 Monsoon CD head units had the changer control which this unit does not have.

I have searched the internet for hours looking for concrete evidence of this, read the owners manual for 2001, etc etc... can't seem to find anything stating this. I appreciate any help.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

I don't know of any definitive reference that proves CD head units could only support changers after mid-99. Even the parts books have been updated to show the more recent model will fit earlier cars (where they used to show different part numbers). There is lots of discussion about it on all the tech boards but nothing that you could really call "proof".

The only way to tell if a head unit will work with a changer is to open it up and look at the number stamped on the CD drive inside. It will be either E-8276-1 or E-8276A-1. The one with the "A" supports a changer (or auxiliary adapter), the one without the A doesn't.

However, if you're trying to get a refund because you were sold a different year than advertised you shouldn't have to prove anything. You were told you were getting an 01 model and they sent you one that's four years older - just the difference in age should be enough to demand a refund.

Mevin

His claim is that "that's what GM does... they mass produce parts and use them when they can" and made reference that some car he had was a 2001 and had taillights made in 1998. It is obviously completely ridiculous to me, as I have a '98 now and I pulled the radio out only to find it's NEWER than this piece of garbage he sold me!

Guess I'm just going to have to resell it without something concrete I could show Ebay to confirm there's no way the radio could be out of a 2001. Ugh what a pain in the *** -- I hate dishonest sellers!!

Thanks

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

When he's saying that his taillights are from a 98 tell him he's looking at the DOT certification date cast into the plastic not the manufacture date of the parts. All 98-02 taillights say 98 on them because the design didn't change during those years.

Sure, GM (and other manufacturers) will sometimes use the previous year's parts at the beginning of a new year if they had some left over. But no company is going to warehouse years worth of parts for future use. GM assembly plants work on a "just in time" delivery plan that has parts delivered to the line just before they are used so that they don't have to maintain any inventory.

I feel for you man. If there's any way you can stick it to this guy (dispute with PayPal, negative feedback, etc.) I would do it. It's possible that he honestly doesn't know what year it came from but then he should say so and be willing to refund your money.

Mevin

Exactly... I figured he'd at least admit that he doesn't actually know what year it's from, but he's not budging a bit and is being a real ***** about it. "It's from a 2001 and that's that". I could understand if he read the 2001 off the sticker on top (as it looks like many of them have this on there, see attached pic of my '98 radio), but why be such a ***** and not just admit that maybe he made a mistake? Ugh.

The only thing I can think of to do right now is to call Pontiac parts and see if they can tell me the only years that this specific model of radio (16257152) was put into, since it had to be done years before 2001.

I figure I'd let this go sooner, but the guy is just pumping out these radios... he's got another one "from a 2001" for sale right now! I can't imagine how many other people he'll screw over if nothing is done.

Thanks again.

Here's a pic of my '98 radio which could easily be mistaken to be from a "2001" if one used only this sticker to judge where it came from:

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

If he's selling more of them then maybe he would just exchange the one you got. It might cost you shipping but at least you might get the model you need.

Mevin

Again, it would make sense, so that was my first question to him. Absolutely not was my answer.

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

If it does not have changer controls, it is definitely not a 2001 radio. Now where it becomes hairy, is that the radio could have legitimately been pulled from a 2001 car, but someone else used a pre '00 as a replacement. In the guy's defense he might just be a junkyward worker or something like that.

The fact that it does not have changer control provisions makes it very clearly NOT a factory 2001 radio.

But when it comes down to the actual purchase contract you should know if it was truly sold as a 2001 oem radio. If so you have a case. If he just said "it came from a 2001 vehicle" that's a little different. Annoyingly so, but different.

But if the radio was clearly sold as a 2001 - especially if the guy is a wiener about it I'd take him to small claims.

I have a pontiac firebird parts manual that I can check the PN for you. PM me if you need that help.

Mevin

Hey,

The part # is 16257152 on the Monsoon headunit. If you can find anything on it, let me know... I went to a Pontiac dealer today and he wasn't even able to pull it up. He said Pontiac purges all radio information from the parts computers after about a year post production since Pontiac doesn't sell radios past that point. Ugh...........

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

Sorry but the parts manual I have says NS, or no service. It has a note about remanufactured units being available through AC Delco Service centers.

The callout breakdowns are distinct with 99-00 being one group and 01-02 as another.

So you should be able to get some record/document from GM verifying the PN to use against they guy.

97V8Bird

I myself have a pre-'99 single cd unit and am looking to eBay to get a '99 to '02 head unit so that I can hook up an aux adapter. I've actually been trying to comb the 'net for actual part numbers of the '99 and later headunits so that I could be sure of what I'm buying.
My question is for WhiteBird00, if I read correctly, you're saying that even the part number of the unit isn't enough? I'd have to actually get the part number of the internal CD drive itself?
Anyway, Mevin, sorry to hear you got screwed over by this guy. You're absolutely right, that probably happens far too often, since all of the units looked identical from 94-02, eBay sellers, espescially junk yards, probably make claims like that all the time.
While I'm here, I've always been curious, and maybe someone knows, why were the 94-99 single CD head unit vehicles wired from the hatch to the unit? What is that port on those older units capable of? Were there actually remote tape decks?
Anyway, thanks, and good luck!

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Unfortunately, the part number that is on the head unit is a production line number that is not the same as the replacement part number. That makes it difficult to determine which production numbers were changer capable and which weren't (i.e. you can't look it up in the parts manual). I suppose if we could find an early 99 and a late 99 to compare the production numbers we could have an easier way to identify them.

In the meantime, you can check if a 99 head unit will work by either plugging it in and trying it or by taking the cover off and looking at the markings on the CD player circuit board.

Changer isn't supported


Changer is supported

The older CD head units were designed to control an external tape player. This option was never available in F-bodies but was used in some other GM models. The external tape player was an in-dash unit that was usually mounted right below the head unit or in the console. The harness for the changer in the back of the car was for cars with cassette head units (which supported CD changers in all model years). It was installed in all cars because it is done fairly early on the production line (well before the radio is installed) and it was easier and cheaper to do them all the same.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

I had another thought - why not contact GM and get a copy of their option lists (order sheet) for the 1997 and 2001 models. Those lists show which options can be ordered together. It should show that the CD changer wasn't available with the 97 CD head unit but was for the 01. On the 97 sheet it should say something like "requires cassette radio" next to the changer option.

97V8Bird

I'm still a little confused, are you saying that it's possible that headunits from different years could have the same external part number, but have different cd player part numbered boards internally? For example, could a 1998 and a 2000 h.u. have the same part number on the label, but only one of them would be able to control a cd changer? If that's not the case, all I'm really trying to do is collect a small list of h.u. part numbers that I know for sure have the more recent internal board, so that I can look to eBay and not waste my money on an old model.
Also, any idea if the change to cd-changer capable in late '99 was only on the firebirds, or if it applied to all Pontiacs? I know these radios were available in the Grand Prixs thru '02 also.
Thanks again!

97V8Bird

I actually have an additional question. (Sorry!) I've had my '97 cd head unit opened before. The CD drive itself is a self-contained module that plugs into the rest of the head unit. Is that circuit board you were talking about part of that cd drive module, or the rest of the unit?

Mevin

I noticed this also when opening these radios up.. it would be nearly impossible to have a seller look to see which # is on the CD drive since it requires you to actually remove the cd portion from the radio.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

What I was refering to is the fact that the part number on the label attached to the radio is not the same as the part number listed in the parts manual. The part numbers for the radios that are changer-capable is probably different than the ones that aren't but there is no way to look it up in a manual. You'd have to find the actual radios (one that supports a changer and one that doesn't) to get the part numbers off them so you'd know what number to look for. Even the current parts manual only lists the head units as N.S. (not stocked) meaning you can't buy a new one from the dealer - you have to repair the old one.

I can't confirm if other Pontiac models changed design at the same time - the radios are listed in the parts manual as N.S. for all models.

Your best bet is to avoid 99 models altogether - buy one from a 2000 or newer car.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, the number is stamped on the CD drive circuit board. I only said that you could tell them apart that way - I didn't say it was easy.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes, but the date stamped on the radio should give you an indication. In your case we're not talking about a 99 that may or may not work. The seller said it was a 2001 model so it should have a 2000 or 2001 manufacture date - either one would support a changer.

I have a 2000 CD head unit in my garage. I know it works with the factory changer because I have that too. I hadn't planned to sell it because it hardly seems worth the trouble but make me an offer.

97V8Bird

I have an oportunity to pick up an '01 head unit with a bad cd drive. Any idea if I could swap in my '97 cd drive in the newer model, and still have cd changer compatability?