WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

I have 2 Orion hcca 12's, the older ones with the red Orion logo and red baskets. They've been in my car for about 4 years and they still work the way they did when they were new. I was using an Autotec mm2000 amp to push them at 2 ohms. Its been in my car for the same amount of time. Well the amp started clipping and going into protect mode after 4 years of flawless work. Any way I bought a Hifonics Brutus BXi1606D amp. I've had good luck with Hifonics in the past so that is why I bought this amp.

My question is, does anyone know how the new Hifonics are rated when it comes to power? I'll give a break down of power rating between the 2 amps farther below. My woofers are dvc 2ohm. I kept them at 2 ohm on the Autotec because if I went to 1/2 ohm on the Autotec it would clip even if all the adj were turned all the way down. So its rated at 750 watts a 2ohm. It pounded pretty hard, even too where you couldn't see straight with certain bass notes.

When I put the new Hifonics amp in, I left it at 2 ohms and its suppose to be 1100 watts. I could have it maxxed out and it wasnt 1/2 as loud as the Autotech amp.So I rewired it to 1/2 ohm since thats all I can do with dvc 2 ohm speakers. I know about how the amp makes more power at lower ohms and thats why its louder. Now the Hifonics feels like it hits twice as hard as the Autotec amp. It'll literally take your breath away and you cant see straight for ****. Its doesnt clip and plays tight and clean.

So basically I'm wondering how over/under rated they are? I read some reviews about Hifonics and most of them say they are under rated. Either my Autotec was under rated or something isn't right. It was just such a huge difference between the 2 amps even when both were wired at 2 ohms the Hifonics should have been louder according to the specs.

I'm not sure if the #'s posted below are peak or rms as neither one says. They are the advertised #'s in the books that came with the amps.

Autotec MM2000
1/2 ohm stable
500x1 at 4 ohm
750x1 at 2 ohm
1200x1 at 1 ohm

Hifonics BXi1606D
-1 ohm stable
550x1 at 4 ohm
1100x1 at 2 ohm
1600x1 at 1 ohm

wickedwarlock

iTrader: (4)

Is there a bass boost on the autotec?
I had the same problems years ago going from a phoeix gold amp to hifonics. It didn't sound louder at all, but when I turned the bass boost off the amp, than compared them, the hifonics was louder.

2fast97Z

iTrader: (20)

you never know with the wholesale amps about their power they are wierd as hell

WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

There is a 0 to 18db bass boost on both amps. I had both set at the same setting. Pretty much both amps have the same adj. on them except the Hifoncs has the phase switch from 0 to 180*. Which I have on 0 because the speakers dont need to be phased. When I put the HIfonics in I had everything zeroed out and went from there. This was at 2 ohms. It just never got any louder than the Autotec.

I tried finding the true wattage of the amps and couldnt gather any real info. Other than reviews on the Hifonics about how much power it put out and made their systems pound. Most of the reviews I did find, not one person had a really decent speaker to compare to what I'm using. I was trying to figure out about how much true power it's putting out at 1/2 ohm. Since they claim 1600 at 1 ohm. Which I dont see happening. I am happy with the amp so far, but its frustrating not knowing the power out put. Heaven forbid they just be upfront about the power ratings!

88GTA

How did you mount your Brutus? I just got the BXi 1206D and it doesn't seem to come with any clips. The box looked un-opened...

WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

It came with the mounts that screw into the bottom of the amp.

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

If there's that big of a difference then the only guess I have is maybe you did a whoopsee and hooked them up at a 4 ohm load when you first dropped in the HiFonics, or the used the wrong bridge connections, something like that.

Otherwise, big amps like that can be all over the board when it comes to thier actual power output at different voltages, and ohm loading.

For example maybe the older amp had better power output at lower (realistic) voltages. I wouldn't worry about it. Just be happy it ended up being an upgrade.

88GTA

Argh! I guess i gotta head back by the shop... thanks.

wickedwarlock

iTrader: (4)

that's what he's saying, it's not louder than the older amp and it's suppose to be more power.

WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

I just wanted to add that I am happy with the new amp so far. It just sucks that they cant market them with more accurate ratings. I dont know which amp is off base, although I'm going to go with the Hifonics is way off.

Also Toddchi, you cant wire two 2 ohm dvc woofers to 4 ohms on a mono amp. Its keep them at 2 ohms, or a 1/2 ohm. I wish there was a way to run them at 1 ohm but then you need dvc 4 ohm speakers. This is the first time I've had an amp that was so over rated compared to what I've had in the past.

smokey1226

Hifonics is Notoious for OVERRATING their amps. We did bench tests for there 1500 amp and it made 1100 and some as low as 1000! watts 1-ohm. There are amps out there that underrate theirs amps like my Crossfire 1000d that benched 1300 watts! And of course Orion has some great amps that do all of what they same and some. Being around the car audio industry for years i personally wouldnt touch anything from Hifonics unless i was putting it into my g/f's car and i knew she wasnt going to go crazy with the gains and bass boost.

Koncrete

iTrader: (3)

you need to find out what voltage they were rated at.....

some companies have been known to feed an amp 16v (they normally see 12-14 in a car) then rate them at that lvl.....

WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

You know whats sad, my wifes Trailblazer has Orion Amps with p2 12's. Its just funny you mention that about the g/f thing. She has the 600d and the 8004 amps. With infinity Kappa componets in the front and Kappa 6 1/2's in the rear. Hers isnt for major bass, even though it will pound. It sounds super clean though and is more than enough for her.

I only got the Hifonics because it was in stock and I had good luck with them in the past. I was using Zues amps and speakers though. I know that the Brutus is a little lower end. Do you know any testing about the Zues amps. I dont rember the exact model I had. I pushed three 12" Zues dvc 2ohm speakers with it and it was still going when I sold it to a buddy. I'm going to the Brutus amp for awile, but maybe I'll change later.

SOMSS

iTrader: (1)

You of course know that it takes ten times the power to make the speakers play twice as lound. You do the math and tell us if it's supposed to be noticably louder.

WhiteRhino

iTrader: (6)

I do know this posts makes no since to me what so ever to me.

Maybe you read to much into what I was saying. Or took it that I meant it was actually 1/2 as loud. That was a metaphor for the huge difference between the two amps. *shrugs* Go buy a walmart 100w amp, then get ahold of one of the old 100w Harmon Kardon or Alpine amps circa late 80's early 90's and tell me if there's a difference. Once again *shrugs* !

Not trying to be an ***. I really dont know what you meant by your post.

2MuchRiceMakesMeSick

I ran hifonics amps (zeus) back in they and those amps had *****.

Now the amps they make are not so great.
Ive heard a rumor that they were bought out by lanzar which is owned by pyramid.

SOMSS

iTrader: (1)

What my post means is simple. It takes roughly a 10 times the power of amp A (say 10 WRMS) for amp B (100 WRMS) to sound twice as loud. I am not refering to quality just quantity. The quality of the music is an entirely different subject. Given that you thought you bought a more powerful amp to geat greater volume but didn't get the results you were looking for leads me to believe that the HiFonics amp in fact is producing less useable power. Maybe it clips its signal at the frequencies you are trying to reproduce or your subs are demanding too much power and the amp can't supply it. If everything is the same with the exception of the amp try swapping the amps to verify your results. If you want a reasonably price high quality amp look at Lanzar amps,

wickedwarlock

iTrader: (4)

I'm not surprised. Since they were bought out for retail, they went down hill. I had their old school amps from the early 90s. On top of the market product. **** happens they say. No different than the Orion being bought out. West coast, they market the amps at peak power.