kny3twalker

iTrader: (31)

I have blown one of the sail panel sub woofers and after many hours reading, I found there is no simple solution other than gutting the entire MonSoon Crap System.

I have enough money to replace the amp, the component speakers in the doors and add some two ways for the sail panels but not enough to replace the Head unit as well as the 4" rears. I would plan on replacing the H/U shortly after this upgrade (perhaps 6-12 months) as well the rear 4"s.

Getting to the point, I was wondering what would be the best multiple channel amp to run the set of components and two ways under 250-300.
What would be the best set of component speakers under 250, as well as two way speakers under 150.

Futhermore, I know there are plently of websites with very low prices which would increase my options; but this would be my first car audio purchase online, and I am not sure which sites are safe. Any opinions would be apprecaited.

Also as far as I understand, I would need a line output converter to connect the Factory H/U to the new amplifier. Any ideas about which will work the best or if any are worth the money?
I have seen several different makes and models of these: Scosche SLC4, PAC OEM-2, PAC OEM FACTORY AMPLIFIED INTERFACE OEM1, And Several others at SoundDomain/CarDomain

As far as speakers and the amp, I have been considering the JBL Power Series P650c for components in the doors, JBL Power Series P652 for the sail panels, and JBL GTO75.4 II as a multiple channel amp.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I am still searching for options
and these simply fall into my budget.

Also with such a setup as above would it still be possible to still run the 4" speakers from the Stock Head?

Thanks

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

You could just replace the sail panel speakers - either with stock or with any one of a number of aftermarket 6.5S speakers that work well there. The sticky post at the top of the forum points to a (very) lengthy discussion of what aftermarket speakers work well in that situation.

camaroguy_02

with that 4-channel amp u listed, along with 4 speakers (which wuld equal 4 channels), the channels wuld be taken up on ur amp. BUT, if u dont really mind, u can just wire the sails and hatches together into the same channel on ur amp. without knowin a whole lot about spl and quality an all that other jazz, i an at least tell u that ur speakers wont be as good as they culd be as if they were wired separately into the amp.

this is why most generally go with a nice component set up front, ditch the sails, and get either a good pair of 4"'ers for the hatch, OR, get bigger speakers and just *make* them fit in the hatch speaker area. last step wuld be to throw in a nice sub/sub-amp combo to take care of the bass (depending on how powerful ur setup is, a cap or bigger alternator may be needed). if u dont want a sub, then u can replace all 6 speakers and just get 2 class a/b amps to run those and be done with it. i think there may be a 6-channel class a/b amp out there, but, i havent really done any research for it.

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

I would do the head unit and speakers first, using the monsoon amp. Head unit and fronts foremost, lower priority on the sail panels. Hatch 4" are not needed, unhook them while upgrading the other drivers.

Then add the amp. You may find yourself happy without it, so not needing the amp, and you'll avoid buying the eventually unnecessary line converter.

Sounddomain is reputable, balanced between cost and reliability.
Crutchfield is excellent, but prices are high.
Etronics is cheap, and I've had good luck with them.

JBL is reasonable quality stuff. On that budget level you'll be happy. Brand recommendations are essentially a giant flame war though. Read up and check stuff out locally if possible.

kny3twalker

iTrader: (31)

I read the entire discussion two nights ago. As far as I could find there are no exact replacements other than stock, since no one makes a DVC 6.5" that runs at 2ohms. The closest is the Image Dynamics single voice coil 6.5" which runs at 2 ohms. But rather than simply upgrade to some unknown quality speakers, I would rather just throw the monsoon in the trash

I figured a quality headunit could run some two way 4" speakers in the future

I have not planned for a sub currently, although I may change my mind in the future.
Thank you for the ideas

Well my concern is that does not the monsoon amp have a funky crossover built into it?
As far as I understand this would eliminate the use of the aftermarket component speakers crossovers. (the crossover included with component speakers)

Also from my understanding does not the crossover in the monsoon amp only send low frequency sounds to the sail panels speakers? This was initially part of the reasoning I used when deciding to get a new amp.

Would it be possible for a good head unit to run a set of components and a pair of two ways? (like a poineer premier or top JVC)
One possiblity would be, I could replace the sail panels with two ways, components for the doors and buy a new H/U.

My fear is just buying some speakers and not getting the full range cause of the crappy monsoon amps built in crossover.

Thank You for the input on web stores.

I understand it may cause a flame war but I really would like some opnions especially concerning my decision on an amp. I am trying to do as much research as possible but it seems the amount of info available seems limited.

Also I had one other concern which was if I get an aftermarket amp would the stock electronics in the car be enough to power the amp without clipping or other problems?

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

That is certainly your choice but you have to understand that a lot of people seem to get needlessly hung up on the different impedance of the speakers. It's really not that big a deal. The Monsoon amp is certainly able to handle 4-ohm speakers and if you get good efficient ones you won't even notice the reduction in volume from the higher impedance. Quality DVC 4-ohm 6.5 or 6.75 speakers aren't hard to find. (I'm assuming you have a Firebird since you mentioned DVC - Camaro SVC speakers are even easier to find.)

I'm not saying don't replace the system - that's up to you. All I'm saying is if you were happy with the Monsoon system then don't replace it just because of blown speakers.

kny3twalker

iTrader: (31)

Well the 14 pages seemed to state otherwise. It seemed other than some impossible to find JLs or Rockfords, it appeared most people had trouble.

I have really only tried searching for DVC 2ohm 6.5" speakers which seem impossible to find. What options are available as far as 4 ohm DVC mid bass speakers?

I would not say that I was entirely happy, but it was acceptable. I do feel upgrading seems to make more sense at this point. From my reading it seems the monsoon amp was engineered specifically for only this stock setup, meaning using the amp in aftermarket/custom setup nearly impossible or very complicated.

Still I would like some input on products and brands as far as speakers and an amplifier (without the flame war that may arise ); whether a new head unit is enough to power a pair of components as well as a pair of two ways?; whether using a line out converter is an acceptable solution if I need a new amp to power such a speaker setup?; which line converter would be the best solution?; and whether it would be necessary to have a capacitor to run a single four channel ampilifier?

Thanks for all the replies

Josh_101

Elemental Designs make DVC 6.5" subs, they can be used as either midbass speakers or for regular sub duties. http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?...allery&cur=USD Also watch the video, its got some crazy excursion!

Make sure you give them plenty of power, and will likely have cut out the metal behind the magnet cause of its size.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

You can also put 6.5S (oversize) SVC 4-ohm mid-bass speakers in the sail panels with good results. Just hook up to the longer pair of wires on each side and cap off the short pair. This works because each of the pairs of wires in the Firebird are set up for 4-ohm loads (they're connected in parallel at the amp to provide a net 2-ohm load). You'll notice when you look at the back of factory Firebird speakers that they are labeled "4-ohm".

If you're on a budget you can always get factory replacements for about $40 each.

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

If you were happy (truly) with the monsoon system stock then I tend to agree with WhiteBird to just drop replacements in the back, and don't get so worked up over the ohm rating, so long as it is 2 or 4. It is a bit of a tricky upgrade, but Infinities, Aplines, there are many choices that are fine. Just hook them up correctly. My budget favorite is probably the oversize, 2 ohm infinities, they run about $100 a pair of the net. If for no other reason stay away from stockers because they are just random in how long they last. If you beat them they will blow. Heh.

The monsoon amp does have some equilization to it. The key is that your aftermarket speakers are hooked up in the same fashion as the monsoon arrangement. This is no issue so long as you buy drivers that can be bi-amped, and you follow the same tweeter/woofer hookup pattern as stock. Just so happens that the Alpines are cheap, widely available, and able to be bi-wired, which is why they are popular. Some co-axials spit the tweeter wiring through the cone and make this bi-amping impossible. The disgust stories you hear are from people that don't get this wiring method, and hook the woofer or tweeter only monsoon wiring up to a standard aftermarket co-axial, then wonder why they get no bass or no treble. Wire them up correctly and you're money, even more so if you are using an aftermarket deck (Monsoon deck spits out a good bit of distortion as well).

The stock charging system can support somewhere in the neighboorhood of 400 watts RMS conventional + 400 watts RMS class D without much trouble, or as a guideline a total fuse rating of about 70-80 amps on the amplifier(s) is usually fine. Certainly a conventional 4 channel amp will pose no problem if the wiring is done properly, and of course with a fuseblock.

Incrementally you could try the speakers first then do the head unit should you decide to do so later. You will pick up a little sound quality, and it is easy enough to do seperately.

Lastly, I would shop around eBay for amplifiers. Amps tend to work or not, most are damaged by install mistakes or water, and they don't keep thier value terribly well. Go with a reputable seller and you can pick up very nice amps for less than half what you'd pay even internet prices new, with fairly low risk.

For four channel amps, it is hard to make a mistake. Just make sure the amp has the features and power levels you want. Alpine, Memphis, JL, Kicker, RF, Infinity, all are solid amps for what you are looking to accomplish. If you really like JBL look for refurbs. They sell thier refurbs off through major channels like Sounddomain, at times. You need to value the name, not just the specs, because there is a lot of variation in output. The brands I listed have a good reputation for producing at least the power they are rated at.

For speakers, there is no better advice than to go listen. Imho, JBL's work very well with reasonable power levels. They tend to have a very bright tweeter (which many people dislike) and high sensitivity. I quite like them as a value option. Infinity is very similar, they are owned by the same parent company.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I think you should try to get a nice head unit, a good component set, a 4 channel amp, and a nice 10" sub with a stealth box. For now you could run the component set off the front 2 channels of the amp and the sub off the rear 2 channels. Should sound great. You would probably be very happy with this alone comming from the stock monsoon.

Later on down the road when you get more money if you still want to upgrade the rear speakers you could buy another small 2 channel amp for the sub and use the rear 2 channels of the 4 channel amp to power the rear speakers.

If you are very limited on the cash you can spend right now I think your money would be best spent on a nice component set and an amp to go with them. Then a new head unit asap.

Front stage is key. If you get a good set of components and give them some power you won't miss not having the factory subs. I would take a nice 2 channel amp and some good components over the whole monsoon mess anyday.

If you do buy the stuff in stages just make sure you plan ahead making sure what you get now will work with your plans for it later.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-PERFECT...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-06-JBL-GTO75...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kicker-CVR10-Com...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-DEH-P680...QQcmdZViewItem



Got bored and looked on ebay. From your post I guessed you had around 700$ you could spend now. I would start off with something like that then maybe later on you could get another amp for the sub and some 2 ways for the rear.

kny3twalker

iTrader: (31)

Personally, I would rather stick with brands I know and trust, thank you though for the suggestion.

The options for 6.5 Mid bass speakers appeared pretty limited. I think in the long run, I would be more happy with a custom setup.

I do not think I could bring myself to invest more money in the crappy monsoon system. It would almost feel like encouraging GM to continue using poor quality stereos in their vehicles.

But I thought the 2 ohm infinities would be limited by the low pass filter on the amp?


Well it seems like if I am following what you are saying, then I would be buying component speakers and not able to make use of their included high quality crossovers. Furthermore it would seem that I would be buying speakers to simply work around the problem created by the amp in the case of the Alpine speakers? I still wonder why GM did not have the fore thought to simply use or design components which would be interchangable with most stereo equipment?

Thank You for answering that question.

I do not need a capacitor!

I really hope this is a good solution. I am leaning in that direction.

I looked up an ampilifer on Ebay which Crutchfield suggested, the Rockford Fosgate Punch P450.4 . It was 220 Buy It Now, where as Sound Domain had it for 280 with free shipping, an extra year warranty, and a 40 dollar amp wiring kit made by Fosgate. Although the JBL GTO75.4 II seems to be a great price.

Well from the brands you listed, is there one which you would consider the top brand as far as amplifiers? And is there any reason you would suggest a refurbed amplifier, other than my current budget?

I know Harmon Kardon is the parent company of both JBL and Infinity. But if you consider both JBL and Infinity value brands, what would be a quality brand in your opinion? I always considered Infinities, JBLs, Polks, etc.... to be some of the better quality speakers.

Well currently I have the stock 6 disc changer where a stealth box would be located. Also I am not currently really interested in big bass as much, nor do I think I could fit components, a headunit, amp, and sub with box into the budget I am trying to adhere to.

The amp I am currently considering would be 280 including amp, wiring kit and shipping; The component JBLs would be 205 including shipping; and the JBL 2 ways would be 123 including shipping. Obivously these are not the absolute best prices, but these items would be purchased from an authorized dealer.

I am not opposed to buying a head unit. I simply think I would like to have more than just 4 speakers(two tweeters and two mid ranges) in my car.
I still will plan to upgrade my head unit in the near future. Furthermore if the line converter just blows, I will probably be buying a head unit anyways.

Do you foresee any problems with my initial idea, other than the line ouput converter going to waste?

Also I was talking to a friend about my situation, and I asked whether I could power a set of components and a pair of two ways from a after market head unit. His reply was that I could not because component speakers were normally 2 ohms not 4 ohms that the head unit produces. Were his statements correct?

EDIT: I guess never mind my last statement above, as I checked and the JBL power series are 4 ohm speakers both two ways and components.

Thanks for the suggestions

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

You shouldn't have any problems getting a 4 channel amp and some components now then upgrading later. I would upgrade the head unit asap though. I hate line out converters. They may be ok for subs but I would hate to have my nice components running off of one. You might want to look into some different components other than those JBL ones. I can't say I have listened to them personally but I think I would get a brand that is more well known for making good components. JBL amps have always worked really well for me and my friends though. I'm using one in my DD that I have had for about 4 years.

Most people think only having a set of components is crazy but components just sound WAY better than 2-ways. You take an awesome sounding set of components, then mix in some not so awesome sounding 2-ways... I admit I didn't like the thought of not having anything in the back myself. I put some really nice 4" 2-ways in the rear deck and ran them off of my head unit. Then adjusted the gains so that you could not hear them at all when sitting in the front. Worked great for me and took away that feeling that I only had sound comming from the front.

todddchi

iTrader: (3)

JBL was actually known as a loudspeaker company before amplifiers. Back in the day (maybe 10-20 years ago) JBL's were made mostly in Germany and were some of the best quality home speakers you could get, some really out of this world stuff. 3" titanium dome midranges and the like. But as with other brands, the name was eventually mass-marketed and their product line diversified. Don't take this wrong, JBL is still a good brand in my humble opinion, I just think it is interesting to hear someone saying thier amps are good while thier speakers are sorta unknown. In my opinion I kind of see them as a "ghetto" MB quart, as they tend to have very lively, sharp tweeters (which I happen to like).

Far as topic goes:

- Go ahead and use whatever crossovers come with your components. Crossovers don't directly interfere with each other, they simply cut the signal allowed through to the wiring after. So the amp cuts off some content, then what is left gets sent to the component crossover. The component crossover may or may not do some additional filtering. There is no harm in using them both, in fact you should use them to ensure the component speaker is not sent frequencies it was not designed to take (very important for the tweeter).

- Brand recommendations - as far as mass market goes, I consider Memphis and JL to be relatively top of the line products. Their products are very well designed (compact, efficient, solid, good component quality). But audio equipment is a endless spectrum of opinions. You can pay $5 for a set of cables, or $50, or $5,000. To me there is a definite line of marginal utility, and I think it is well represented by companies like JL and Memphis on the upper end, and tons of other viable companies like Kicker and Alpine in the midrange. But there are so many smaller, boutique and independent (not mass market - not stuff you can buy at BB or dealers) companies that opinions are everywhere and widely varied. Rest assured unless you are at a competition level, all of these brands will serve you well. Audio is truly a endless depth of a hobby and you can find and spend whatever it is you are willing to part with. There is also the problem that brand quality levels have varied greatly with time as companies have adjusted thier strategies. Orion and Precision power used to make top-quality amps. RF as well. Not so much anymore. So even a given brand isn't always safe. The key is getting value for your money, spending the least to get what outcome you desire, and only you can make that decision.

- I would also be careful to consider, components don't necessarily mean superior sound in a simple four speaker system. I will concur that they are typically better for sound fidelity, but many components are not made with the intent of producing full range bass. Some are focused for midbass and treble, since they are usually used in full systems which include subs. If you go with JBL I do not think this is an issue, but there are some component systems which would be lacking in bass output compared to even mediocre coaxials, as they are not designed to produce full range bass.

- Using 2-ways in the back with the monsoon amp - means unless you modify some wiring, the tweeter will not be used. It would be possible to run the 4" hatch speaker wires up to the sail panel tweeters, which I would probably do if I liked having rear fill. You don't want those factory hatch speakers anywhere in the equation once you upgrade the other speakers. It's like mixing a fart in with cologne. At minimum unhook them. The only reasonable arguement I've ever heard for the hatch speakers is liking the output with the hatch open, using the car for a boombox. But really once you upgrade they should become refrigerator magnets.

If it were my system, I would split my budget up like this:

- $200 head unit (anything more just starts adding fancy crap like display stuff)
- $150 fronts
- $100 rears
- $200 amp
- $100 for wiring, fuse block (or better yet a breaker), install stuff.

imho these are well balanced numbers. The only reason I say this is I don't like the idea of driving $250 components with the factory monsoon amp, or a factory deck, for that matter.

It is always good advice to understand your entire budget and goals up front, and put the money where it matters most.