Speakers or HU first?
Speakers or HU first? My stock 98 Trans Am speakers are taking a dump on me so I think I'm going to start replacing my system piece by piece. Being a high school senior, I'm pretty much broke so I have to either replace the speakers (one by one as the money rolls in ) or my head unit it first.
I don't have the know-how nor the will to rip out my entire system so I'm thinking about getting a pair of the 2 ohm Alpines (can't recall their name) that everybody raves about to start since it's my door speakers that have mostly taken a crap on me as of now.
My question is, I think I'll replace my head unit last, so since all I'm doing right now is replacing my stock speakers with a different set of 2 ohm speakers, should this affect my head unit choice in the future? For example, since I won't be touching the stock monsoon amp in any way during this installation, will I have to fiddle around with specific head units and wiring combinations downt he road when it comes time to replace the monsoon head unit?
I don't have the know-how nor the will to rip out my entire system so I'm thinking about getting a pair of the 2 ohm Alpines (can't recall their name) that everybody raves about to start since it's my door speakers that have mostly taken a crap on me as of now.
My question is, I think I'll replace my head unit last, so since all I'm doing right now is replacing my stock speakers with a different set of 2 ohm speakers, should this affect my head unit choice in the future? For example, since I won't be touching the stock monsoon amp in any way during this installation, will I have to fiddle around with specific head units and wiring combinations downt he road when it comes time to replace the monsoon head unit?
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by Gallstaff
My stock 98 Trans Am speakers are taking a dump on me so I think I'm going to start replacing my system piece by piece. Being a high school senior, I'm pretty much broke so I have to either replace the speakers (one by one as the money rolls in ) or my head unit it first.
I don't have the know-how nor the will to rip out my entire system so I'm thinking about getting a pair of the 2 ohm Alpines (can't recall their name) that everybody raves about to start since it's my door speakers that have mostly taken a crap on me as of now.
My question is, I think I'll replace my head unit last, so since all I'm doing right now is replacing my stock speakers with a different set of 2 ohm speakers, should this affect my head unit choice in the future? For example, since I won't be touching the stock monsoon amp in any way during this installation, will I have to fiddle around with specific head units and wiring combinations downt he road when it comes time to replace the monsoon head unit?
I don't have the know-how nor the will to rip out my entire system so I'm thinking about getting a pair of the 2 ohm Alpines (can't recall their name) that everybody raves about to start since it's my door speakers that have mostly taken a crap on me as of now.
My question is, I think I'll replace my head unit last, so since all I'm doing right now is replacing my stock speakers with a different set of 2 ohm speakers, should this affect my head unit choice in the future? For example, since I won't be touching the stock monsoon amp in any way during this installation, will I have to fiddle around with specific head units and wiring combinations downt he road when it comes time to replace the monsoon head unit?
The Alpine speakers you hear about are mostly Camaro owners because they make great replacements for the coaxially mounted components in the Camaro doors. You can use them in a Firebird but you lose the advantage of the separately mounted tweeters. Of course, you can work around that in various ways such as leaving the factory tweeters and disconnecting the tweeters in the Alpines. Infinties are another good choice but some people find them too bright so be sure to listen to them before spending your money.
Also, the distortion from the factory head unit is one of the major causes of blown speakers. If your speakers weren't already bad there would be no question that replacing the head unit first would get you the best results. In your case you need to replace blown speakers first. Just don't crank the volume until you get a chance to replace the HU or you'll risk blowing the new speakers as well.
Replacing the speakers won't have any effect on your choice of head unit later unless you also plan to replace the factory amp. The Monsoon amp is the best part of the system and there is no reason to replace it except to get more power (in which case you'd need better speakers anyway). The Monsoon HU can be replaced with any aftermarket unit that will fit without any special wiring.
Whitebird, thanks for taking the time to reply! Can you give me agood reccomendation as to what I should do about my speaker situation then? I thought that those particular Alpines were a good choice for both Trans Am and Camaro, but I guess I was wrong.
I would replace the HU first if I didn't already have blwon speakers, so what do some people like in the TA'S that aren't too much money but that aren't made out of cardboard like the stock speakers?
I would replace the HU first if I didn't already have blwon speakers, so what do some people like in the TA'S that aren't too much money but that aren't made out of cardboard like the stock speakers?
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
Also, the distortion from the factory head unit is one of the major causes of blown speakers. If your speakers weren't already bad there would be no question that replacing the head unit first would get you the best results. In your case you need to replace blown speakers first. Just don't crank the volume until you get a chance to replace the HU or you'll risk blowing the new speakers as well.
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Exactly - if you replace your HU, leaves the speakers as is hooked up to the factory amp....if you replace front doors for example, power them off of the HU because they will perform better (assuming 4 Ohm impedances), and the factory amp also creates distortion, which COULD lead to problems.
The preferred upgrade order is 1-head unit, 2-speakers, 3-add a sub with amp, 4-rewire and replace the factory amp. This order may have to be modified in some situations such as where the speakers are already blown.
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by Gallstaff
Whitebird, thanks for taking the time to reply! Can you give me agood reccomendation as to what I should do about my speaker situation then? I thought that those particular Alpines were a good choice for both Trans Am and Camaro, but I guess I was wrong.
I would replace the HU first if I didn't already have blwon speakers, so what do some people like in the TA'S that aren't too much money but that aren't made out of cardboard like the stock speakers?
I would replace the HU first if I didn't already have blwon speakers, so what do some people like in the TA'S that aren't too much money but that aren't made out of cardboard like the stock speakers?
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
Actually, the factory amp has pretty good distortion specs and won't usually cause a problem. It is somewhat underpowered for some people and will start to clip sooner than they would like (which, of course, can damage speakers) but overall it's a good amp. I wouldn't recommend rewiring around the amp just because of perceived distortion issues and certainly not because of the impedance of the speakers (the amp will handle efficient 4-ohm speakers quite well). However, if you want more power than the factory amp can produce without clipping then you will need to rewire and install a more powerful aftermarket amp.
The preferred upgrade order is 1-head unit, 2-speakers, 3-add a sub with amp, 4-rewire and replace the factory amp. This order may have to be modified in some situations such as where the speakers are already blown.
The preferred upgrade order is 1-head unit, 2-speakers, 3-add a sub with amp, 4-rewire and replace the factory amp. This order may have to be modified in some situations such as where the speakers are already blown.
Of course any amp that performs best with 2 ohm impedances will be able to handle 4 ohm impedances (etc) decently... The fact still is that if it were powered by something designed to perform best with 4 ohm impedances, there would be a noticeable difference.
Are you saying that you would prefer to have the factory amp power 4 ohm speakers if you had the choice between that and a aftermarket HU?
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
The Alpines are good speakers that will give you good sound for a reasonable price. You should look at the Alpine Type-S components (SPS-171A) rather than the coaxials (SPS-17C2) that are used in Camaros. Several other brands have component sets that will work and get good reviews - Kenwood, Infinity, Polk, MB Quartz, and Pioneer have all been mentioned favorably in various threads here. Your best bet is to go to a good stereo shop and listen to them to see which you like. For example, the Infinities are bright (some people love them, some hate them) while the Pioneers are quite warm (more like the stock speakers). The Alpines are popular because they are somewhat brighter than stock but don't sound harsh. Remember that your replacement head unit (when you get it) will tend to sound brighter than stock because of better reproduction of the high frequencies.
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Do you have specs or oscilloscope observations I could take a look at? I was always under the impression that there was still a fair amount of distortion.
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Of course any amp that performs best with 2 ohm impedances will be able to handle 4 ohm impedances (etc) decently... The fact still is that if it were powered by something designed to perform best with 4 ohm impedances, there would be a noticeable difference.
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Are you saying that you would prefer to have the factory amp power 4 ohm speakers if you had the choice between that and a aftermarket HU?
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
No, sorry, I wish I did. Of course any specs would be about as reliable as the 500W power rating since they would come from GM's marketing department. But I don't have any documentation - just lots of experience. The difference in distortion levels between a system using the Monsoon amp with the factory head unit and one using an aftermarket head unit is dramatic - instantly audible even to an untrained ear. On the other hand, the difference (at reasonable volume levels) between an aftermarket head unit with factory amp and the same head unit with aftermarket amp isn't nearly as noticeable - at least as far as distortion is concerned.
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
Not so much in a mixed environment. Now, if you completely eliminate the factory amp in favor of an aftermarket one with all 4-ohm speakers then yes, the difference will be quite noticeable. My point was that someone on a budget who is not an audiophile will get quite decent results with good (efficient) 4-ohm speakers connected to the factory amp - without the need to rewire.
I'm saying that I would prefer an aftermarket head unit powering the replacement speakers (2-ohm or 4-ohm) through the factory amp rather than rewiring to have that aftermarket HU power the speakers directly. It's easier, it's cheaper, and it sounds good (maybe even better depending on the head unit).
I'm saying that I would prefer an aftermarket head unit powering the replacement speakers (2-ohm or 4-ohm) through the factory amp rather than rewiring to have that aftermarket HU power the speakers directly. It's easier, it's cheaper, and it sounds good (maybe even better depending on the head unit).
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by fredmr39
I agree...components would obviously sound better (I would add Phoenix Gold and Elemental Designs to that list) - but the power requirements are greater as well... unless you plan on powering them with an aftermarket amp, I would stick with coaxials.
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Sorry - I was not assuming a mixed environment. The cost and time involved in running new wires from the HU to the doors is so minimal I would not hesitate to do it.
Ideally, I would prefer to replace the HU, amp, speakers, and wiring. But given the choice between powering the speakers directly from the HU or keeping the factory amp, I'll go with the factory amp. Not that you won't get good sound either way but I prefer leaving things alone as much as possible until I get to the point of completely redoing the system. That leaves more options open in the long run.
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00
No, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree again. The components are a better match to the factory setup in a Firebird and the difference in power requirements is minimal. For example, both the Alpine and Kenwood coax speakers are rated 2-50 watts while the equivalent components are rated 8-50 or 8-65 watts. The head unit alone can produce the 8 watts so the amp wouldn't have any problem with that. The Infinity components go right down to 2 watts with a 92dB efficiency.
Also, as far as sound - most of the time nice coaxials sound better because component tweeters are usually placed too far away from the midrange portion. So...back to what you said before - someone on a budget, not an audiophile, and looking for "ease" of replacement would be best off with coaxials.
EDIT: Thanks for working with me (and correcting me) here and giving me more knowledge than I had when I came in here.
Last edited by fredmr39; Jan 18, 2007 at 03:21 PM.
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From: Jacksonville, FL (originally from Toronto Canada)
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Also, as far as sound - most of the time nice coaxials sound better because component tweeters are usually placed too far away from the midrange portion. So...back to what you said before - someone on a budget, not an audiophile, and looking for "ease" of replacement would be best off with coaxials.
Originally Posted by fredmr39
Thanks for working with me (and correcting me) here and giving me more knowledge than I had when I came in here.
Speakers first, without a question. Swapping decks with an externally-amplified system will only marginally, if even noticably, change the SQ and response of the system. Swapping speakers will make a drastic difference.
Come on man rip that system out and drop something in much better. It's not that hard. Just giving you a hard time. Why don't you buy everything bit by bit and install everything at the same time. But if I had a choice, I would go for the speakers first if they sound bad, then the headunit. At least enjoy the miusic until you get the headunit.
-Mike
-Mike
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From: Champaign/Chicagoland
Originally Posted by Element
Speakers first, without a question. Swapping decks with an externally-amplified system will only marginally, if even noticably, change the SQ and response of the system. Swapping speakers will make a drastic difference.
Plus the fronts are components....if he went with coaxials, some modification would be necessary...