2003 Porsche 996 C4S, LS3 Conversion
02-15-2013, 05:02 PM
#1
2003 Porsche 996 C4S, LS3 Conversion Hey All, Just getting started, I've not bought anything YET, except the Car. It's a Mint Condition, I mean it looks like it's 3 months old, 2003 996 C4S one owner, who I've worked with the past 10yrs. This used to be his baby. He just found out about the Porsche design defect about 6 months ago and had an appointment to have the IMS bearing changed on Jan 8. On Dec 21, yep the end of the world day, he was driving at 45mph when the bearing let loose. He had it towed to a local porsche dealer who stated that it ran, it just sounded like heck, well yeah! duhh, they decided to pull the tranny to check bearing, he was really mad, especially when they said he needed a new engine $15k. He told them to put it back together and sold it to me. I was planning on rebuilding the porsche motor till I did some research on these IMS failures and what people are doing to try and detect and fix this serious design flaw, also the fact that the dealer ran the motor to listen didn't help. That's when I found the Renegade hybrid web site. Gonna need Ya'lls help and suggestions with the LS install, I've worked on many aircraft and rebuild many different engines over the past 30yrs, but have not messed with an LS Yet. Last time I rebuilt a engine was about 8yrs ago. So I'm alittle rusty. That's enough info for now. looking forward to your imputs, Thanks, Michael
IMS Bearing after I removed Motor/Tranny
Engine mount tab broken off by the dealer mechanic. All the bolts that hold the tranny to the engine are different, if you put the wrong bolt in the wrong hole this is what happens. Core charge on these engines is around $5k
IMS Bearing after I removed Motor/Tranny
Engine mount tab broken off by the dealer mechanic. All the bolts that hold the tranny to the engine are different, if you put the wrong bolt in the wrong hole this is what happens. Core charge on these engines is around $5k
02-16-2013, 05:01 AM
#3
Thanks, can't wait to drive it since I never got the chance while it was running, Was offered a few times but it never came about. Original owner also excited to try it out.
Dealer doesn't know about the broke tab YET. Reason is, they also dented the hood by closing it on some jumper cables, I'm waiting to get it back from them fixing it, before I tell them about the broke tab and ME owning the car now. I'm thinking a threat of Better Business Buarel and posting experiences on a few forms should get me ?
Dealer doesn't know about the broke tab YET. Reason is, they also dented the hood by closing it on some jumper cables, I'm waiting to get it back from them fixing it, before I tell them about the broke tab and ME owning the car now. I'm thinking a threat of Better Business Buarel and posting experiences on a few forms should get me ?
02-16-2013, 07:17 AM
#5
I have heard about these IMS bearing failures and you prompted me to see what it actually means. It's sad and pathetic that Porsche would release such a design during the current state of automotive technology.
Good luck with the LS build and I think it's a good choice. I'll be watching this one.
Good luck with the LS build and I think it's a good choice. I'll be watching this one.
02-16-2013, 08:43 AM
#7
[QUOTE=alocker;17151901]I have heard about these IMS bearing failures and you prompted me to see what it actually means. It's sad and pathetic that Porsche would release such a design during the current state of automotive technology.
Yep, You gotta wonder what KIND of engineer would put a sealed, isolated bearing in a engine crankcase enviroment? I've read stories where someone got the records from the bearing company that stated, porsche ordered the first bearings without the inner seal, with the intent of filling the tube with a couple oz. of perminent oil to keep it lubed. When they got to production some genious ordered and installed the missing seals and installed. Of course that was all speculation. Once the bearing company found what he was up to, no more info to him. Now it's all cover up mode.
Yep, You gotta wonder what KIND of engineer would put a sealed, isolated bearing in a engine crankcase enviroment? I've read stories where someone got the records from the bearing company that stated, porsche ordered the first bearings without the inner seal, with the intent of filling the tube with a couple oz. of perminent oil to keep it lubed. When they got to production some genious ordered and installed the missing seals and installed. Of course that was all speculation. Once the bearing company found what he was up to, no more info to him. Now it's all cover up mode.
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02-16-2013, 08:18 PM
#8
Michael,
The A-10 is my 2nd favorite all time plane (2nd only to the P-38 Lightning). I used to live in upstate NY and the guys from Utica-Rome AFB would do low-level flyovers at the folk's summer camp on Lake Sacandaga. I'm talking 100 feet altitude at 300 - 400 MPH following the lake contour!
The A-10 is my 2nd favorite all time plane (2nd only to the P-38 Lightning). I used to live in upstate NY and the guys from Utica-Rome AFB would do low-level flyovers at the folk's summer camp on Lake Sacandaga. I'm talking 100 feet altitude at 300 - 400 MPH following the lake contour!
02-23-2013, 01:28 PM
#13
and also, wtf is the IMS bearing? Im not familiar with porsche stuff[/QUOTE]
IMS is the intermediate shaft that is just below the crankshaft on the 1998-2005 model porsche flat 6 engines, it runs the length of the motor and is turned by the crank and it in turn drives the chains that turn the overhead cams. They stuck a sealed isolated ball bearing in the transmission end that the shaft rides on, the other end is a bushing end that drives the oil pump. There's some debate on how it was designed. Some say it was supposed to be installed with the inner bearing seal removed and a couple oz's of oil put inside the hollow shaft for the life of the engine. Supposedly production saw the bearing without the grease and seal and installed sealed greased bearings that didn't last very long till the seal deteriated and the grease exited and the only lube the ***** got was vapor. NO ONE WILL ADMIT to anything and Porsche just replaced the engines that failed under warrenty, the others are left on their own. Supposedly Porsche estimated a less then 1% failure rate. People that own these cars DON"T want to talk very much about it. Lowers the cars values.
IMS is the intermediate shaft that is just below the crankshaft on the 1998-2005 model porsche flat 6 engines, it runs the length of the motor and is turned by the crank and it in turn drives the chains that turn the overhead cams. They stuck a sealed isolated ball bearing in the transmission end that the shaft rides on, the other end is a bushing end that drives the oil pump. There's some debate on how it was designed. Some say it was supposed to be installed with the inner bearing seal removed and a couple oz's of oil put inside the hollow shaft for the life of the engine. Supposedly production saw the bearing without the grease and seal and installed sealed greased bearings that didn't last very long till the seal deteriated and the grease exited and the only lube the ***** got was vapor. NO ONE WILL ADMIT to anything and Porsche just replaced the engines that failed under warrenty, the others are left on their own. Supposedly Porsche estimated a less then 1% failure rate. People that own these cars DON"T want to talk very much about it. Lowers the cars values.
02-24-2013, 08:44 AM
#15
Been working on cleaning and painting and rebuildig CV shafts. Need to get old engine sold to get money for parts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-Engi...sories&vxp=mtr
03-07-2013, 10:21 PM
#18
transmission mount I know the C4S is wider than the C2. Do you think that there is any chance of moving the transmission towards the front of the car by somehow modifying the transmission mount?
This is how I want to do it. I think with just about 3 more inches forward would allow for a mechanical LS3 (i think the LS3 drive is the tightest to the block) waterpump and power steering pump to fit up there. Your body should be the same as 1dirtyZ's turbo and he just flipped the transmission mount around to get the added clearance needed for the engine accessories to fit. Of course you would have to fabricate your own engine mounts as well because the renegade engine mount would be off by a couple inches. Changed CV angle and shifter linkage due to the transmission move shouldn't be too durastic to cause problems.
I'm less than impressed after seeing WhiteOut's frustration with the coolant lines and the kit $$$ that comes from Renegade.
thanks,
Aaron
This is how I want to do it. I think with just about 3 more inches forward would allow for a mechanical LS3 (i think the LS3 drive is the tightest to the block) waterpump and power steering pump to fit up there. Your body should be the same as 1dirtyZ's turbo and he just flipped the transmission mount around to get the added clearance needed for the engine accessories to fit. Of course you would have to fabricate your own engine mounts as well because the renegade engine mount would be off by a couple inches. Changed CV angle and shifter linkage due to the transmission move shouldn't be too durastic to cause problems.
I'm less than impressed after seeing WhiteOut's frustration with the coolant lines and the kit $$$ that comes from Renegade.
thanks,
Aaron
03-08-2013, 06:20 AM
#19
I'm thinking that if you move the tranny fwd, your also moving the axles fwd and I don't want to change the axle geometry. I think I can fix the hose issues with 90 degree Hard lines and such. But as slow as I'll be going with this project due to time restraints that won't be for a while yet.
Mike
Mike
