Automotive News, Media & Press - ZL1 Wins overall vs new GT500

Just thought I'd post up the link to the first ZL1 vs GT500 magazine comparo. Looks like even though the GT500 was 4 tenths quicker to 60mph and 5/10ths quicker in the quarter mile, the ZL1 killed it on the road course and twisties not to mention ride quality and traction. Basically do a little pulley swap to match the GT500's psi and the $6000 cheaper Camaro wins in every category. very nice.

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2012/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2013-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-comparison-test.html

and also the automatic version is 1 tenth quicker so that narrows the gap even more lol

:corn:

Where are all the nuevo Ford nutswingers who are all over the other threads saying how bad Chevy f'd up? :huh: crickets...

I don't think anyone ever questioned the ZL1 would handle.

I want to see them run on a track.

That 12.7 @ 114mph that Inside the Line ran in the ZL1 was pretty embarrassing though.

Based on the times, it looks like they had some pretty average/below-average drivers testing these cars.

Still want to see more comparisons, but it is nice that they have begun.

This trend will continue.

Just thought I'd post up the link to the first ZL1 vs GT500 magazine comparo. Looks like even though the GT500 was 4 tenths quicker to 60mph and 5/10ths quicker in the quarter mile, the ZL1 killed it on the road course and twisties not to mention ride quality and traction. Basically do a little pulley swap to match the GT500's psi and the $6000 cheaper Camaro wins in every category. very nice.

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2012/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2013-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-comparison-test.html

Where did they post the road course numbers? I skimmed through twice now and didn't see anything mentioning the ZL1 actually beats the GT500 around a track, only that it has a slight advantage in the slalom and skid pad, 0.05g and 1.7 mph, while taking 110ft to stop vs 109ft in the GT500. To me it seems like the ZL1 is going to be seeing taillights on anything other than an autocross course.

Yea I would like to see them run at a track against each other.


And ditto on driver/s.

Where did they post the road course numbers? I skimmed through twice now and didn't see anything mentioning the ZL1 actually beats the GT500 around a track, only that it has a slight advantage in the slalom and skid pad, 0.05g and 1.7 mph, while taking 110ft to stop vs 109ft in the GT500. To me it seems like the ZL1 is going to be seeing taillights on anything other than an autocross course.

Maybe I misread, but it seems they were saying completely the opposite...that the only category in which the GT500 would beat the ZL1 was in straight-line performance. The ZL1 appeared to be better in every other aspect and just a better all-around vehicle.

Maybe I misread, but it seems they were saying completely the opposite...that the only category in which the GT500 would beat the ZL1 was in straight-line performance. The ZL1 appeared to be better in every other aspect and just a better all-around vehicle.

What he is saying is that they did not take the cars to a track and run them. It would like them saying the ZL1 was faster at the drag strip but not providing times or even taking the cars to a track.

And the GT500 did better in braking and anything straight line acceleration related.

Maybe I misread, but it seems they were saying completely the opposite...that the only category in which the GT500 would beat the ZL1 was in straight-line performance. The ZL1 appeared to be better in every other aspect and just a better all-around vehicle.

Saying is totally different than proving, and below average drivers saying the easier to drive car is faster around a track means nothing to me. A bad driver is going to be faster around a track in a slower and easier to drive car than they are a fast and violent one. Based on the actual data they have the ZL1 would only have an advantage on a short road course or one with no straightaways.

I'm fine with the ZL1 losing the straight but winning the twisties.

Afterall with these type of money I'd wanna all around car not just a 0-60 car.

And many might come and say "well 99% will never use it in the twisties", it's not about that. It's about the fact that these cars are going against world class cars and they NEED to handle! So I'm happy for the ZL1! The Corvette folks know what I'm talking about.

And it seems like they had some shitty drivers...

Saying is totally different than proving, and below average drivers saying the easier to drive car is faster around a track means nothing to me. A bad driver is going to be faster around a track in a slower and easier to drive car than they are a fast and violent one. Based on the actual data they have the ZL1 would only have an advantage on a short road course or one with no straightaways.

Exactly. The ZL1 will put the smack down on the GT500 if the track is short and tight with no straightaways, but on the same track a Miata will give the ZL1 fits.
Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viwp4RuwuYw

Saying is totally different than proving, and below average drivers saying the easier to drive car is faster around a track means nothing to me. A bad driver is going to be faster around a track in a slower and easier to drive car than they are a fast and violent one. Based on the actual data they have the ZL1 would only have an advantage on a short road course or one with no straightaways.

I agree with most of this but at the same most of the drivers that buy these cars aren't pro drivers so I think it's a good point to prove. The nice part is there's gonna be alot of testing between these two for a longtime to come so get ready for the poo flinging because there's gonna be alot of peolpe that are going to argue the facts presented to them.

I don't think anyone ever questioned the ZL1 would handle.

I want to see them run on a track.

That 12.7 @ 114mph that Inside the Line ran in the ZL1 was pretty embarrassing though.

What he is saying is that they did not take the cars to a track and run them. It would like them saying the ZL1 was faster at the drag strip but not providing times or even taking the cars to a track.

And the GT500 did better in braking and anything straight line acceleration related.

i saw a 12.4 at 116. did i miss something?


and a gt500 did stop better from 60-0. by one foot.

:corn:

Where are all the nuevo Ford nutswingers who are all over the other threads saying how bad Chevy f'd up? :huh: crickets...



to say GM didnt do a great job with this car is nonsense.


theres nothing for them to be embarrassed about. thats like saying ford should be embarrassed because a heavier car handles better.

:corn:

Where are all the nuevo Ford nutswingers who are all over the other threads saying how bad Chevy f'd up? :huh: crickets...

i saw more chevy guys saying that chevy fucked up the zl1, than i did ford guys.

Based on the times, it looks like they had some pretty average/below-average drivers testing these cars.

Still want to see more comparisons, but it is nice that they have begun.

downright shitty drivers is more like it. in BOTH cars.

Saying is totally different than proving, and below average drivers saying the easier to drive car is faster around a track means nothing to me. A bad driver is going to be faster around a track in a slower and easier to drive car than they are a fast and violent one. Based on the actual data they have the ZL1 would only have an advantage on a short road course or one with no straightaways.

bolded...this is what i keep saying.

i saw more chevy guys saying that chevy fucked up the zl1, than i did ford guys.

actually thats true.

they also need to quiet down lol.

to say GM didnt do a great job with this car is nonsense.


theres nothing for them to be embarrassed about. thats like saying ford should be embarrassed because a heavier car handles better.

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

Only when the Chevy gets beat in a straight line. You should know that by now sheesh.

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

no, it shouldn't be. not a single thing about either of these cars should be an embarrassment to anyone. except for gm's chief engineer flapping his gums. he should be forced to listen to ballroom dance music for about a week.

both of these cars are phenomenal. they will compliment each other, because each will force the rival manufacturer to create better cars for us.

Wow, the ZL1 doesn't even handle all that much better like I thought it would. I like both, but it seems like the GT500 is definitely the superior car out of the two.

i saw more chevy guys saying that chevy fucked up the zl1, than i did ford guys.

Yes, that's why I said "nuovo" Ford nutswingers, meaning all the people trying to jump on the band-Wagon saying that the GT500 is so superior and the ZL1 is a hunk of crap.

It only took ford how many years?

Yes, someone had to say it :jest:

Both are great cars. Both are pushing each other to do better. I'm curious now what the next round will bring.

Meanwhile, I'll sit here with my 4th gen which while I love it and don't see myself getting rid of it, I also drool over these new ones too :D

no, it shouldn't be. not a single thing about either of these cars should be an embarrassment to anyone.

both of these cars are phenomenal. they will compliment each other, because each will force the rival manufacturer to create better cars for us.:werd: :nod:

It only took ford how many years?

Yes, someone had to say it :jest:

Both are great cars. Both are pushing each other to do better. I'm curious now what the next round will bring.

Meanwhile, I'll sit here with my 4th gen which while I love it and don't see myself getting rid of it, I also drool over these new ones too :D

Next round will be 2014 C7 :secret2:

I'm not worried about GM what so ever, the truth is that the camaro is still selling like hot cakes and they are the "cool" ones. And this means GM can take their sweet time making the corvette perfect like they always do :D

It might sound like an excuse(and has been repeated many times) but GM can't put the same engine in the camaro as the almighty zr1, so camaro does have it's limits. I don't expect the zl1 come back with any sort of hp bump for next year, and they really don't need to imo

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

this car run has run 11s stock. how is that embarrassing in a 4000lb plus car?

i saw more chevy guys saying that chevy fucked up the zl1, than i did ford guys.

Us Chevy guys are just so used to winning that we hold ourselves to a higher standard... the one trick pony GT500 may fool some of the less educated, but people who want the best all around performer still know where they can find it.:engarde:

:werd: :nod:

now why'd ya cut out the part about al op being forced to listen to ballroom music? :D

Us Chevy guys are just so used to winning that we hold ourselves to a higher standard... the one trick pony GT500 may fool some of the less educated, but people who want the best all around performer still know where they can find it.:engarde:

of course. they step down from the shelby to the boss302. it's better all around package. :engarde:

of course. they step down from the shelby to the boss302. it's better all around package. :engarde:

So you admit it takes ford two cars to do what Chevy does in 1?!?!?

SPOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

its too bad they didnt drop in the ls9 instead of the lsa though. it would have been game over for ford. the ford would probably still have a slightly higher trap speed but the quarter mile time would be better in the camaro.

and people saying gm cant drop in the ls9 because it would outperform their flagship zr1 vette is crazy. that would never happen the vette is 700 pounds lighter.

Also they really should have called this car the z28 since its made for handling. they could have thrown the ls7 in that since its naturally aspirated and lighter/better for handling and then came out with a limited production drag zl1 with the ls9.

Most men would say size matters.....the ZL1 does have a substantially larger S/C pulley.:)

It's all about the blower, GM used the smaller TVS 1900 on the Camaro/CTSV and the larger 2300 on the ZR1, which Ford happens to also use on the GT500. Ford has also really pushed the blower with a really small pulley compared to GM.

We all know the Ford dominates, aesthetically I like the Camaro 100x better, and I really dislike the regular Camaros and downright hate the way regular Mustangs look.

its too bad they didnt drop in the ls9 instead of the lsa though. it would have been game over for ford. the ford would probably still have a slightly higher trap speed but the quarter mile time would be better in the camaro.

and people saying gm cant drop in the ls9 because it would outperform their flagship zr1 vette is crazy. that would never happen the vette is 700 pounds lighter.

Also they really should have called this car the z28 since its made for handling. they could have thrown the ls7 in that since its naturally aspirated and lighter/better for handling and then came out with a limited production drag zl1 with the ls9.

THIS! I desperatly hoped for a ZL1 with a LS7, like the old ZL1 427. :usa:

this car run has run 11s stock. how is that embarrassing in a 4000lb plus car?

They talked this huge game about how the ZL1 was better in every way, then it only equals or loses to the GT500 in every performance metric. While I think these drivers were sub par, the GT500 was a HALF SECOND faster in the quarter mile; that's embarrassing

Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.


Looks at Edmunds results Ford didn't soundly kick anyone's ass. In fact I'd say the margins are so close that for packing 662hp the performance doesn't appear to be there. It also sounds like some gearing/trans concessions were made for the sake of marketing the GT500's top speed at the expensive of drive and tractability.

THIS! I desperatly hoped for a ZL1 with a LS7, like the old ZL1 427. :usa:

yea an ls7 would have been absolutely sick. id go out and get one. yea 80 less hp but its really only about 50 less hp to the wheels according to dynos and the car would have been a good 100lbs lighter without all that blower stuff. also it would be a bigger motor as a starting point for a really nice heads cam setup. prob be good for 550-600 rwhp and naturally aspirated

So you admit it takes ford two cars to do what Chevy does in 1?!?!?

SPOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

lololol

Looks at Edmunds results Ford didn't soundly kick anyone's ass. In fact I'd say the margins are so close that for packing 662hp the performance doesn't appear to be there. It also sounds like some gearing/trans concessions were made for the sake of marketing the GT500's top speed at the expensive of drive and tractability.

you mean that video with super geek driving it? the guy probably couldn't get top performance out of a hyundai excel, much less one of these monsters.

It only took ford how many years?

Yes, someone had to say it :jest:



The Mustang has been the faster car since 2003.

The Mustang has been the faster car since 2003.
They did have alot of competiton with the 2003 camaro.

you mean that video with super geek driving it? the guy probably couldn't get top performance out of a hyundai excel, much less one of these monsters.

There are plenty of people like him that compete in track events. Don't write off someone's skill based on their appearance.

Most men would say size matters.....the ZL1 does have a substantially larger S/C pulley.:)

It's all about the blower, GM used the smaller TVS 1900 on the Camaro/CTSV and the larger 2300 on the ZR1, which Ford happens to also use on the GT500. Ford has also really pushed the blower with a really small pulley compared to GM.
Yeah I don't think some peolpe realize what ford had to do to bump that motor from 550 to 662.
They talked this huge game about how the ZL1 was better in every way, then it only equals or loses to the GT500 in every performance metric. While I think these drivers were sub par, the GT500 was a HALF SECOND faster in the quarter mile; that's embarrassing

They claimed it would be better then the 2012 not the 2013 you are comparing that not GM. I think it's funny that even with less power and more weight the ZL1 is a better all around car now that's embarrassing for you ford guys well maybe not if you live your life a quarter mile at a time.

The Mustang has been the faster car since 2003.

Please don't tell me your talking about the cobra? It's not the strongest argument when ford waited until the fbodys were gone and even then they had to have a blower to beat it. Z28 to GT the mustang lost from 93-02 then even after its final day it would still take a GT until the new 5.0 cam out so I guess it's ok to let them have some time in the sun since they were in the shadow of the lt-ls1 cars for so long.

Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment.

I don't agree with this. In today's society a car that runs a solid time around nürburgring impresses car enthusiasts of all kinds. GM engineered a car which handles well, is easy to drive, and makes 500hp.

They did have alot of competiton with the 2003 camaro.

they were faster in the 80's into the very early 90's before they fucked up.

There are plenty of people like him that compete in track events. Don't write off someone's skill based on their appearance.

i see your point. i wasn't writing off his skill by looking at him. i was writing it off by watching how poorly he drove both of those cars.

Yeah I don't think some peolpe realize what ford had to do to bump that motor from 550 to 662.


They claimed it would be better then the 2012 not the 2013 you are comparing that not GM. I think it's funny that even with less power and more weight the ZL1 is a better all around car now that's embarrassing for you ford guys well maybe not if you live your life a quarter mile at a time.

you guys gotta pardon firebird. i took my tablespoon to one of his eyes.......:devil::engarde:

Please don't tell me your talking about the cobra? It's not the strongest argument when ford waited until the fbodys were gone and even then they had to have a blower to beat it. Z28 to GT the mustang lost from 93-02 then even after its final day it would still take a GT until the new 5.0 cam out so I guess it's ok to let them have some time in the sun since they were in the shadow of the lt-ls1 cars for so long.

Ok no one told gm to stop making the camaro but the cobra was faster and even 8yrs later when they brought the camaro back the 03 cobra is still faster. They had a long time to prepare for the cars ford brought out.

They talked this huge game about how the ZL1 was better in every way, then it only equals or loses to the GT500 in every performance metric. While I think these drivers were sub par, the GT500 was a HALF SECOND faster in the quarter mile; that's embarrassing

so GM compared a zl1 to a 2013 gt500?

Please don't tell me your talking about the cobra? It's not the strongest argument when ford waited until the fbodys were gone and even then they had to have a blower to beat it. Z28 to GT the mustang lost from 93-02 then even after its final day it would still take a GT until the new 5.0 cam out so I guess it's ok to let them have some time in the sun since they were in the shadow of the lt-ls1 cars for so long.

Well the Mustang destroyed the Camaro during all those years it wasn't made, and the GT500 has been out since before the 5th gen Camaro. People always seem to forget that the GT500 has been out since 2007.

Can't destroy it if it didn't exist :P

Can't destroy it if it didn't exist :P

I believe the Mustang destroying the Camaro is why it didn't exist :D People love to bring up how the Camaro has a small sales lead on the Mustang every month, while back in the LT1/LS1 days the Mustang was outselling the Camaro and Firebird about 3 to 1.

so GM compared a zl1 to a 2013 gt500?

Yeah, they did (http://ls1tech.com/forums/automotive-news-media-press/1507037-camaro-chief-engineer-lsa-zl1-vs-2013-5-8l-gt500.html). I think they jumped the gun, knowing full-well that they made a good performance car. I think they were banking on Ford just throwing a ton of power under the hood of the 2012 and calling it a day. Ford made a lot of improvements to the new GT500 that GM engineers had hoped wouldn't be enough to rival their car.

I still think the road course results will come down to the track setup (assuming good/same driver in each car). On courses with higher speeds, the GT500 will win, while the ZL1 will excel on tighter, more technical courses. Both cars are awesome, and I'd love to see either one in my garage (maybe someday).

god stop arguing all of you. there are a few Zl1 vs Gt500 videos and review out now and there data is different in all of them but the main point remains the same

in a stock for stock 1/4 drag race or roll
Gt500 beats the Zl1, theres even a video of a tuned 2013 boss 302 beating the zl1

however, in a stock for stock autoX course,
the zl1 will beat the gt500 provided on course and lack of straightaways.

it just boils down to what you want more. personally i prefer the gt500 for the drag racing as thats what i do, not many people around here autoX. there will however always be those here on ls1tech that will argue that something was wrong somewhere in the zl1 and the gt500 sucks or whatever. just haters is what it is, ford knew what they wanted out of the gt500 and created a drag car that excels. chevy attempted to make an all around car but IMO could have beefed up the drag portion a bit. to each his own.

Ok no one told gm to stop making the camaro but the cobra was faster and even 8yrs later when they brought the camaro back the 03 cobra is still faster. They had a long time to prepare for the cars ford brought out.

Well the Mustang destroyed the Camaro during all those years it wasn't made, and the GT500 has been out since before the 5th gen Camaro. People always seem to forget that the GT500 has been out since 2007.

I was careful how I worded that by saying GT to Z28 nothing else and like I said before between those two cars the mustang lost from 93 until the new 5.0 that is a long time my friends. As far as GM having time to compete with the mustang when they brought back the camaro it make over a 100hp then the gt did so how did they lose that one? Hell ford guys should be glad they brought back the camaro just look what they offer you guys now compared to when it was gone.In the end I'm just glad we still have v8 sports cars to critique anyways.

I was careful how I worded that by saying GT to Z28 nothing else and like I said before between those two cars the mustang lost from 93 until the new 5.0 that is a long time my friends. As far as GM having time to compete with the mustang when they brought back the camaro it make over a 100hp then the gt did so how did they lose that one? Hell ford guys should be glad they brought back the camaro just look what they offer you guys now compared to when it was gone.In the end I'm just glad we still have v8 sports cars to critique anyways.

:cheers:

They did have alot of competiton with the 2003 camaro.

04-06 GTO's spanked GT's... :engarde:

Furthermore, If you want a 125 car for 60K, pay me 60K$ and I will deliver to you an LS1 Trans Am with a blower and pocket the rest. If you want a Grand Tourer that comfortably gets you around town and can hold its own on the drag strip or a road course for 55K get a ZL1.

04-06 GTO's spanked GT's... :engarde:

^very true but no cobras?

^very true but no cobras?

Cobra's cost quite a bit more. I love 03-04 Cobra's btw, but not the new ones.

Cobra's cost quite a bit more. I love 03-04 Cobra's btw, but not the new ones.

I see them around the same price as your goat.

Ok no one told gm to stop making the camaro but the cobra was faster and even 8yrs later when they brought the camaro back the 03 cobra is still faster. They had a long time to prepare for the cars ford brought out.

bolded....i keep getting told i'm full of it when i say that.


and wait? are you saying the 5th gen is having trouble comparing to an 8 year old car? :Devil:

I see them around the same price as your goat.

The fact that they cost $5K more than a GTO when they were new and now cost the same speaks volumes, doesn't it?

BTW, has anyone noticed that 10 years ago a Cobra cost $35K and today a GT500 costs $55K?

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

I agree with you on this one...

BUT, since day 1 the Camaro was out, we only hear plp bitching here; heavy, slow, ugly, pig..blah blah blah.

With the ZL1, all the haters can just shut up cause GM made this fat pig the fastest around the course!!! For cheaper than the GT500 too!

On the other hand(back to the reason I agree with you LOL), GM should have put the LS9 right from the start into the ZL1 and CTSV. I think this engine is a waste of money to produce instead of producing mass LS9 engines(..well I hope so lol).

So Ford won this round in my book. 2 cars with 6-7mph difference is a shame and cannot be compared.

Still for the price, the ZL1 is an outstanding package.

I agree with you on this one...

BUT, since day 1 the Camaro was out, we only hear plp bitching here; heavy, slow, ugly, pig..blah blah blah.

With the ZL1, all the haters can just shut up cause GM made this fat pig the fastest around the course!!! For cheaper than the GT500 too!

On the other hand(back to the reason I agree with you LOL), GM should have put the LS9 right from the start into the ZL1 and CTSV. I think this engine is a waste of money to produce instead of producing mass LS9 engines(..well I hope so lol).

So Ford won this round in my book. 2 cars with 6-7mph difference is a shame and cannot be compared.

Still for the price, the ZL1 is an outstanding package.

again, bear in mind, most of the guys you see putting the zl1 down on here, are the chevy guys. most of the ford guys seem to be giving it the respect it deserves.......

The fact that they cost $5K more than a GTO when they were new and now cost the same speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Well 05-06 compare to 03-04 the year also maters soo nope lol

I agree with you on this one...

BUT, since day 1 the Camaro was out, we only hear plp bitching here; heavy, slow, ugly, pig..blah blah blah.

With the ZL1, all the haters can just shut up cause GM made this fat pig the fastest around the course!!! For cheaper than the GT500 too!

On the other hand(back to the reason I agree with you LOL), GM should have put the LS9 right from the start into the ZL1 and CTSV. I think this engine is a waste of money to produce instead of producing mass LS9 engines(..well I hope so lol).

So Ford won this round in my book. 2 cars with 6-7mph difference is a shame and cannot be compared.

Still for the price, the ZL1 is an outstanding package.

Zl1 is a nice car. I would just expect a bit more than just handling. 580 hp supercharged v8 motor but still can't trap over 120mph in the 1/4. A all motor 346 fbody is capable with way less horse power and doesn't need FI that's the only reason why I have a hard time siding with it over a gt500

The fact that they cost $5K more than a GTO when they were new and now cost the same speaks volumes, doesn't it?

It was only a $3k difference when both were new, and 04 Cobras sell for about 1.5X what 04 GT0s do for an apple to apple comparison. What is it with you GTO owners and your Napoleon syndrome?

Well 05-06 compare to 03-04 the year also maters soo nope lol

^very true but no cobras?

You are the one who wanted to compare them lol. My point is its not fair to compare the Cobra to the GTO. You should compare the 04+ Mustang to the 04+ GTO

It was only a $3k difference when both were new, and 04 Cobras sell for about 1.5X what 04 GT0s do for an apple to apple comparison. What is it with you GTO owners and your Napoleon syndrome?

Again, he compared the GTO to the Cobra not me, The Cobra's performance is obviously worth more money. GTO:31795, Cobra's traditionally have alot of dealership markup as evidenced here: :http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-talk-229/183209-what-retail-price-03-04-cobra-new.html

I would put the difference after markup at 5K

You are the one who wanted to compare them lol. My point is its not fair to compare the Cobra to the GTO. You should compare the 04+ Mustang to the 04+ GTO

I did 04 mustang cobra :confused: you mean 05 gt vs 05 Gto ?

04-06 GTO's spanked GT's... :engarde:



^very true but no cobras?


Cobra's cost quite a bit more. I love 03-04 Cobra's btw, but not the new ones.


I see them around the same price as your goat.

The fact that they cost $5K more than a GTO when they were new and now cost the same speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Well 05-06 compare to 03-04 the year also maters soo nope lol

:huh: So what you are arguing is that because an older car that cost 20K we should compare it to a car 3 years newer that cost 20K used?

All I am saying is you shouldn't compare a Cobra to a GTO. They are in different leagues

Again, he compared the GTO to the Cobra not me, The Cobra's performance is obviously worth more money. GTO:31795, Cobra's traditionally have alot of dealership markup as evidenced here: :http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-talk-229/183209-what-retail-price-03-04-cobra-new.html

I would put the difference after markup at 5K

Weak argument. You could find them under MSRP too, so it's best just to use the MSRP. So we have a $3k gap from the GTO to the 2004 Cobra, $7k gap from the 2005 GTO to the 2005 GT, and a $9k gap from the 2004 GTO and GT.

Zl1 is a nice car. I would just expect a bit more than just handling. 580 hp supercharged v8 motor but still can't trap over 120mph in the 1/4. A all motor 346 fbody is capable with way less horse power and doesn't need FI that's the only reason why I have a hard time siding with it over a gt500

A fox 346(LS1?) is a modded car out of the 80-90s. I know youre talking about performance, but those 2 cars just cant be compared at all.

Nut I hoped too that the ZL1 would be a 120-121mph car...just too heavy.

LOL I was tired yesterday and my reading/writing skills just failed me!

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

yea.. how so?

yea.. how so?

Because that's what every ricer uses as an excuse for getting their ass kicked by anything with a V8 in it.

lol i love it now GM fan boys are track gods, thats the same excuse honda owners use when domestic owners talk about being the fastest at the 1/4. This is hilarious. The ZL1 has failed to compete in the same category as the gt500 in the test that matters most to everyone on here (Whoever says other wise is lieing to themselves).

Looks at Edmunds results.

Edmunds results...really? Maybe we should rely on Car & Driver too.
Keep reading magazines and the internet.

lol i love it now GM fan boys are track gods, thats the same excuse honda owners use when domestic owners talk about being the fastest at the 1/4. This is hilarious. The ZL1 has failed to compete in the same category as the gt500 in the test that matters most to everyone on here (Whoever says other wise is lieing to themselves).

The Camaro marketing team told them Ring times and handling were important so now that's the end-all.

just outta curiousity, did these guys actually take these cars to any sort of track? or are they assuming that because the camaro is .05 better on the skidpad that it'll destroy the shelby?

Edmunds results...really? Maybe we should rely on Car & Driver too. Keep reading magazines and the internet.

I will, thanks.

lol i love it now GM fan boys are track gods, thats the same excuse honda owners use when domestic owners talk about being the fastest at the 1/4. This is hilarious. The ZL1 has failed to compete in the same category as the gt500 in the test that matters most to everyone on here (Whoever says other wise is lieing to themselves).

It is hilarious, anyone who defends a car with 580hp is now a ricer simply because the same car can also handle?

Ive said it before, but FWD platforms arent exactly known for their handling capabilities either... its a retarded analogy all around.

Now that I am done playing devils advocate... I do agree though, 1/4 mile times do mean more to me than handling capabilities (to an extent, of course). I guarantee I would be more than happy with the GT500s handling on the street.
*EDIT- That is to say, on the street I am guessing I am not a good enough driver to notice a difference (as if I could ever own either, haha).

just outta curiousity, did these guys actually take these cars to any sort of track? or are they assuming that because the camaro is .05 better on the skidpad that it'll destroy the shelby?

In the Edmunds article they basically did a chase and the ZL1 consitently pulled away. Same drivers, same day, same cars. Just what everyone wants.

I would like to comment on this whole short track/long track discussion. Judging a road course bbased on straightaways for these to cars is meaningless. You must consider the speed delta's at all points of the track. Let's assume you have a long curveed section at 1000ft of length and a ZL1 maintains a 4mph advantage, followed by a straightaway where the GT-500 maintains a 3mph advanatge, then you would have a net win for the ZL1 over that sector. Cornering speed can be huge. If a cars exit speed is significantly higher than another, any straightaway advantage could be negated by the need to first get to the speed, that the better cornering car has already achieved.

I am just saying it is a much more complex situation than it is being made. Can a GT-500 make up 3 mph (totally arbitrary) on acceleration from 100-150 mph on a given straight, and then produce enough of an advantage to make any gains. Corner speed is always most critical on any road course.

I am not saying that a GT-500 won't win on a longer road course, or that a ZL1 would on a tighter one (although braking and handling will be even more critical here). I am saying it is way too complex to make a blanket statement.

In the Edmunds article they basically did a chase and the ZL1 consitently pulled away. Same drivers, same day, same cars. Just what everyone wants.

I would like to comment on this whole short track/long track discussion. Judging a road course bbased on straightaways for these to cars is meaningless. You must consider the speed delta's at all points of the track. Let's assume you have a long curveed section at 1000ft of length and a ZL1 maintains a 4mph advantage, followed by a straightaway where the GT-500 maintains a 3mph advanatge, then you would have a net win for the ZL1 over that sector. Cornering speed can be huge. If a cars exit speed is significantly higher than another, any straightaway advantage could be negated by the need to first get to the speed, that the better cornering car has already achieved.

I am just saying it is a much more complex situation than it is being made. Can a GT-500 make up 3 mph (totally arbitrary) on acceleration from 100-150 mph on a given straight, and then produce enough of an advantage to make any gains. Corner speed is always most critical on any road course.

I am not saying that a GT-500 won't win on a longer road course, or that a ZL1 would on a tighter one (although braking and handling will be even more critical here). I am saying it is way too complex to make a blanket statement.

part of what i've been using for that reasoning, is a friend that's run his viper at pocono.
there was a turbo'd neon there. he walked the dood very easily on the straights, but when it came time to turn, that neon was sucked right up on his bumper.
those two weren't even close on power, otherwise the neon would've stayed close in the straights.
with these two being close, i still think short tracks will go to the zl, and longer ones will go to the shelby.

also note in the road racing series where camaro competes against mustang, it is very closely matched, but the mustang generally does better. even with the camaro being a bit lighter.

Weak argument. You could find them under MSRP too, so it's best just to use the MSRP. So we have a $3k gap from the GTO to the 2004 Cobra, $7k gap from the 2005 GTO to the 2005 GT, and a $9k gap from the 2004 GTO and GT.

Didn't realize you could magically make an argument weak simply by declaring it so. I provided evidence of several Cobra owners who payed 37K new and you simply brush it off as "weak."

part of what i've been using for that reasoning, is a friend that's run his viper at pocono.
there was a turbo'd neon there. he walked the dood very easily on the straights, but when it came time to turn, that neon was sucked right up on his bumper.
those two weren't even close on power, otherwise the neon would've stayed close in the straights.
with these two being close, i still think short tracks will go to the zl, and longer ones will go to the shelby.

also note in the road racing series where camaro competes against mustang, it is very closely matched, but the mustang generally does better. even with the camaro being a bit lighter.

Thing about the Viper/Neon situation is a wide disparity in power/weight/brakes/driver. The ZL1/GT-500 are extremely similar cars. Again, not saying the GT-500 won't dominate a longer course. However, the types of turns may make a huge difference despite the length of track/straightaway. These cars are so close that I would most often bet on the superior handling vehicle in mst road course scenarios. As I stated before, we just do not know. If the corner speed delta's are not skewed enough in the Zl1's favor to overcome a deficiency in the straightaway delta's, then it will lose. The best part about superior handling is that you carry more exit speed, which given or assumption, means that the GT-500 would actually have to catch up on speed/mat/and then exceed on ever straightaway. We just don't have enough information to make a reliable statement.

As for the race cars, class rules mess with weight, air restrictors, and who knows what else; and is probably not meaningful to a discussion of these road cars.

Thing about the Viper/Neon situation is a wide disparity in power/weight/brakes/driver. The ZL1/GT-500 are extremely similar cars. Again, not saying the GT-500 won't dominate a longer course. However, the types of turns may make a huge difference despite the length of track/straightaway. These cars are so close that I would most often bet on the superior handling vehicle in mst road course scenarios. As I stated before, we just do not know. If the corner speed delta's are not skewed enough in the Zl1's favor to overcome a deficiency in the straightaway delta's, then it will lose. The best part about superior handling is that you carry more exit speed, which given or assumption, means that the GT-500 would actually have to catch up on speed/mat/and then exceed on ever straightaway. We just don't have enough information to make a reliable statement.

As for the race cars, class rules mess with weight, air restrictors, and who knows what else; and is probably not meaningful to a discussion of these road cars.
yea, good points on the shelbys.

the class rules messed with them a lot i think. last year, the camaros struggled a LOT, till they got grand am to allow a different spoiler. that made them VERY competitive, and it was fun to watch the top camaro/mustang constantly trading places.
last year, the mustangs had intake restrictors, while the camaros didn't. this year, they've both got em.
porsche has come back, now that they have an engine to play with, and has been beating up on both ford and chevy. the beemers are doing pretty good too......and multimatic switched to astom martin. beautiful car, but not being very competitive.....

lol i love it now GM fan boys are track gods, thats the same excuse honda owners use when domestic owners talk about being the fastest at the 1/4. This is hilarious. The ZL1 has failed to compete in the same category as the gt500 in the test that matters most to everyone on here (Whoever says other wise is lieing to themselves).

Edmunds results...really? Maybe we should rely on Car & Driver too.
Keep reading magazines and the internet.

Because that's what every ricer uses as an excuse for getting their ass kicked by anything with a V8 in it.

I love the fact that the ZL1 was said to be the best all around car yet you guys still revert back to straight line speed and power. Guess you gt500 fan boys are having a hard time with the fact that it lost this comparison? No one ever said the GT500 wasn't faster but Chevy did do alot to make this car handle well and go fast in a straight line albeit not as fast as a GT500 but any car with 4200 pounds that can click 11's stock is fast and you can't deny that not matter what camp you stand behind. For the guys that get stuck on the Hp and 1320 times I guess you guys roll around in stripped out race cars right?

It is hilarious, anyone who defends a car with 580hp is now a ricer simply because the same car can also handle?

Ive said it before, but FWD platforms arent exactly known for their handling capabilities either... its a retarded analogy all around.

Now that I am done playing devils advocate... I do agree though, 1/4 mile times do mean more to me than handling capabilities (to an extent, of course). I guarantee I would be more than happy with the GT500s handling on the street.
*EDIT- That is to say, on the street I am guessing I am not a good enough driver to notice a difference (as if I could ever own either, haha).

I love the fact that the ZL1 was said to be the best all around car yet you guys still revert back to straight line speed and power. Guess you gt500 fan boys are having a hard time with the fact that it lost this comparison? No one ever said the GT500 wasn't faster but Chevy did do alot to make this car handle well and go fast in a straight line albeit not as fast as a GT500 but any car with 4200 pounds that can click 11's stock is fast and you can't deny that not matter what camp you stand behind. For the guys that get stuck on the Hp and 1320 times I guess you guys roll around in stripped out race cars right?

The cars alright but like i said, you can't compare the ZL1 with the GT500. The GT500 is on another level. I can see someone preferring the ZL1 over the GT500 only if A. They are GM fan boys or B. If they are going to be at the track every week. Lets be serious here though 1/10 people on here go to the track enough to justify the tiny marginal difference between the two on the track. People on here are such nut hugging GM fan boys. That they wont let this die already. Ford decimated GM this year.


Funny you say ricer, you are aware that japan has always had superior handling cars than the U.S right? So saying that the ZL1 is AWESOME because it handles great and then saying japanesse or hondas are ricer then it just shows how retarded you are.

Have you ever owned a civic? have you ever owned a FWD car and taken turns with it? Im not sure if your aware but there are NA civics out there at the track destroying vipers/corvettes and other high end cars. So saying a FWD CANT handle is just a retarded opinion if obviously there are other out there doing work with them at the track.

The cars alright but like i said, you can't compare the ZL1 with the GT500. The GT500 is on another level. I can see someone preferring the ZL1 over the GT500 only if A. They are GM fan boys or B. If they are going to be at the track every week. Lets be serious here though 1/10 people on here go to the track enough to justify the tiny marginal difference between the two on the track. People on here are such nut hugging GM fan boys. That they wont let this die already. Ford decimated GM this year.


Funny you say ricer, you are aware that japan has always had superior handling cars than the U.S right? So saying that the ZL1 is AWESOME because it handles great and then saying japanesse or hondas are ricer then it just shows how retarded you are.

Have you ever owned a civic? have you ever owned a FWD car and taken turns with it? Im not sure if your aware but there are NA civics out there at the track destroying vipers/corvettes and other high end cars. So saying a FWD CANT handle is just a retarded opinion if obviously there are other out there doing work with them at the track.

Like I said you can't comprehend the fact that Hp and et's aren't everything. You further prove that buy saying people that buy the ZL1 are either fan boys or track queens is plan ignorant. It's a great all around car that is very capable to do anything you want as does the GT500 but it's seems based of this comparison that the ZL1 is better why can't you accept that? Maybe your to much of a fanboy to see the truth.....

Didn't realize you could magically make an argument weak simply by declaring it so. I provided evidence of several Cobra owners who payed 37K new and you simply brush it off as "weak."

It's weak because I can find owners that got them under MSRP and GTO owners that paid over. You can't take the highest from one and lowest from the other to make a comparison, that's like comparing a poor drivers time in one car to a good driver in the others. My bolt-on Formula was faster than C6Z06s because I was beating a 2007 Z06 that ran high 13s/low 14s all day at the track. Would that be a fair argument? No, it would be a really shitty one.

I love the fact that the ZL1 was said to be the best all around car yet you guys still revert back to straight line speed and power. Guess you gt500 fan boys are having a hard time with the fact that it lost this comparison? No one ever said the GT500 wasn't faster but Chevy did do alot to make this car handle well and go fast in a straight line albeit not as fast as a GT500 but any car with 4200 pounds that can click 11's stock is fast and you can't deny that not matter what camp you stand behind. For the guys that get stuck on the Hp and 1320 times I guess you guys roll around in stripped out race cars right?

You are saying that like the GT500 is a piss-poor handling car, when in reality it is only a little behind the ZL1. How many guys on this forum would use 100% of what either car was capable of in cornering ability on the streets? Now, how many are going to go WOT with them? We aren't talking about a Formula One car being compared to a top fuel drag car, BOTH cars handle very good and are VERY close to each other in that department, one just happens to kick the others ass when the throttle is mashed :D

Edmunds results...really? Maybe we should rely on Car & Driver too.
Keep reading magazines and the internet.

...as he posts his opinion on the Internet. Lol! j/k!

The Mustang has been the faster car since 2003.

No argument there, but it's not really a fair comparison either. The Cobra was also a $34k vehicle. The Z28 was a $23k vehicle in 2002. You would have to get a fully optioned out 35th anniversary edition SS to come close to the price of the Cobra. A much better comparison would be the '03-'04 Mach 1 or the 2003-2010 GT.

You are saying that like the GT500 is a piss-poor handling car, when in reality it is only a little behind the ZL1. How many guys on this forum would use 100% of what either car was capable of in cornering ability on the streets? Now, how many are going to go WOT with them? We aren't talking about a Formula One car being compared to a top fuel drag car, BOTH cars handle very good and are VERY close to each other in that department, one just happens to kick the others ass when the throttle is mashed :D Sorry but you sir are wrong yet again I've never once said the GT500 is bad handling car but you will find post where Ive said it will handle better then most people think and is in no way a one trick pony but it's apparently it's not as refined as the first year ZL1 and ford has had what 5-6 years sounds like Chevy may have been short on power but that's about it.

No argument there, but it's not really a fair comparison either. The Cobra was also a $34k vehicle. The Z28 was a $23k vehicle in 2002. You would have to get a fully optioned out 35th anniversary edition SS to come close to the price of the Cobra. A much better comparison would be the '03-'04 Mach 1 or the 2003-2010 GT.
A 4th gen fbody would ruin the day of any mustang gt from 93 until the new 5.0 and the only way ford beat it was to throw a supercharger (03-04) on it case closed.We had our fun it's time to let them have there's lets just hope we don't have to wait as long as they did.....lol

if handling isn't a factor why did ford make a gt500 handle better?



they must've been in contact with someone at honda.



some of us need to get out of the 60s.

I'm tired of the handling argument. The GT500's handling capabilities are well beyond what I or 90% of everyone else can take advantage of. I think for most people the GT500 is the better performer. Stop light to stop light and passing on the highways and county roads are where the vast majority of us will take advantage of a vehicle's performance. I don't need the ability to take a hairpin turn at 100mph on shitty public roads. Much better chance of wreaking my car trying to be a canyon carver than straight line sprints.

I'm tired of the handling argument. The GT500's handling capabilities are well beyond what I or 90% of everyone else can take advantage of. I think for most people the GT500 is the better performer. Stop light to stop light and passing on the highways and county roads are where the vast majority of us will take advantage of a vehicle's performance. I don't need the ability to take a hairpin turn at 100mph on shitty public roads. Much better chance of wreaking my car trying to be a canyon carver than straight line sprints.

and a zl1 has enough power for more than 90% than most need but who cares. if you drive like an idiot you'll wreck regardless.

i prefer straight line performance also but i also like a car that handles well. it makes driving more enjoyable.

and a zl1 has enough power for more than 90% than most need but who cares. if you drive like an idiot you'll wreck regardless.

i prefer straight line performance also but i also like a car that handles well. it makes driving more enjoyable.

Are you implying the GT500 doesn't handle well? I bet you would be more than satisfied with its handling on the street and road course. I also bet you and the vast majority of the public would use the GT500's straight line power advantage much more than the ZL's handling advantage.

Are you implying the GT500 doesn't handle well? I bet you would be more than satisfied with its handling on the street and road course. I also bet you and the vast majority of the public would use the GT500's straight line power advantage much more than the ZL's handling advantage.

i never implied any such thing.


and i doubt were going to see enough of these cars to matter how theyre driven.

but since you brought it up most people i see driving gt500s are older people and they didnt seem interested in racing.

Like I said you can't comprehend the fact that Hp and et's aren't everything. You further prove that buy saying people that buy the ZL1 are either fan boys or track queens is plan ignorant. It's a great all around car that is very capable to do anything you want as does the GT500 but it's seems based of this comparison that the ZL1 is better why can't you accept that? Maybe your to much of a fanboy to see the truth.....

Lol me a fanboy? No. Im just here sharing my opinion, ive owned several hondas, worked on mustangs, this firebird being my first GM car, i love it. Im a fan of all cars. Is the ZL1 a nice car? Yes (never said it wasn't).

But the whole argument the OP has is that it is the ZL1 is the better "overall" car because it handles better?

Do you think someone who plans to daily drive, occasionally drag race (whether street or strip) will be interested in the ZL1? If he has the more powerful GT500 with the same price tag, also being that the GT500 is forged from factory, not cast like the ZL1.

So by that being said the only way anyone would pick the ZL1 over the GT500 is because the potential buyer is either a big fan of GM or he will be using it at the track alot.


If handling is your only motivation to choose the ZL1 over the GT500 and straight line performance is of no concern to you then go out and buy that turd ass scion FR-5 and save your money.

Lol me a fanboy? No. Im just here sharing my opinion, ive owned several hondas, worked on mustangs, this firebird being my first GM car, i love it. Im a fan of all cars. Is the ZL1 a nice car? Yes (never said it wasn't).

But the whole argument the OP has is that it is the ZL1 is the better "overall" car because it handles better?

Do you think someone who plans to daily drive, occasionally drag race (whether street or strip) will be interested in the ZL1? If he has the more powerful GT500 with the same price tag, also being that the GT500 is forged from factory, not cast like the ZL1.

So by that being said the only way anyone would pick the ZL1 over the GT500 is because the potential buyer is either a big fan of GM or he will be using it at the track alot.


If handling is your only motivation to choose the ZL1 over the GT500 and straight line performance is of no concern to you then go out and buy that turd ass scion FR-5 and save your money.

I guess your interpretation to the term "better overall" is different then most and based on that you will never understand why they placed them the way they did.

I'm tired of the handling argument. The GT500's handling capabilities are well beyond what I or 90% of everyone else can take advantage of. I think for most people the GT500 is the better performer. Stop light to stop light and passing on the highways and county roads are where the vast majority of us will take advantage of a vehicle's performance. I don't need the ability to take a hairpin turn at 100mph on shitty public roads. Much better chance of wreaking my car trying to be a canyon carver than straight line sprints.

Funny you bring up stop light to stop light because most people can't launch a 6 speed car as hard as a auto car and it becomes even more so on the street so the ZL1 will not be a slouch in that department either.

Funny you bring up stop light to stop light because most people can't launch a 6 speed car as hard as a auto car and it becomes even more so on the street so the ZL1 will not be a slouch in that department either.

good point.


bottom line is both of these cars are priced out of range for most enthusiasts anyway.

:devil::devil::devil:look at the numbers. very close.

zl1= so easy a cave man can drive it. :D
shelby= drivers car.

Funny you bring up stop light to stop light because most people can't launch a 6 speed car as hard as a auto car and it becomes even more so on the street so the ZL1 will not be a slouch in that department either.

some can.

:devil::devil::devil:look at the numbers. very close.

zl1= so easy a cave man can drive it. :D
shelby= drivers car. Weak sauce:secret2:

some can.

Ahh that sir is why I said "most" and not "all" either way you didn't disagree........:cheers:

There was a good comparison between the ZL1 and the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Nobody is gonna argue that the Boss 302 is set up much better in the handling department then the gt500 even though it has less power. The comparison shows the Zl1 has the advantage over the boss 302 in all the categories except long sweepers where the lighter 302 can grip better then the heavier ZR1 which is pulled out mid corner. Other then that small setback the ZL1 still won that comparison as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI

There was a good comparison between the ZL1 and the Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Nobody is gonna argue that the Boss 302 is set up much better in the handling department then the gt500 even though it has less power. The comparison shows the Zl1 has the advantage over the boss 302 in all the categories except long sweepers where the lighter 302 can grip better then the heavier ZR1 which is pulled out mid corner. Other then that small setback the ZL1 still won that comparison as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI

True but what you failed to realize is that the 13' GT500 was created with beating its "juniors" in everything. The 5.0s were bolting on mods and running 10s and the Boss was out handling the older GT500s. Ford stepped up their game in all departments to create the GT500. I am not saying it will beat the ZL1, but it was not made to beat a ZL1 in corners. It was made to beat the Boss and GT in both cornering, breaking, and speed.

I am not saying it will beat the ZL1, but it was not made to beat a ZL1 in corners. It was made to beat the Boss and GT in both cornering, breaking, and speed.
That is the first time I've ever heard someone say it wasn't built to beat the ZL1 in the corners.

again, bear in mind, most of the guys you see putting the zl1 down on here, are the chevy guys. most of the ford guys seem to be giving it the respect it deserves.......

Well what can we say, us GM guys are just used to comparing the numbers to the corvette, which is always a big step up from the camaro. It sounds like an excuse to the ford kids, but it really isn't. We have an older brother in our family, and we just can't be better than it.

And the initial reason why the 5th gen didn't get the respect it deserved is because for being gone 8yrs, it barely improved numbers wise versus the fbody, which was slap in the face to the enthusiasts.

But with that said GM doesn't make money off the enthusiasts, they make money selling cars to the masses and the 5th gen has been kicking mustangs ass from the day it came out so GM really did win!

and a zl1 has enough power for more than 90% than most need but who cares. if you drive like an idiot you'll wreck regardless.

i prefer straight line performance also but i also like a car that handles well. it makes driving more enjoyable.

And lets not forget about the ride quality of the vehicle. Anybody that moved from an f-body to a c5 can attest for this statement of how much better their butts felts lol

And all you kids need to chill out cause probably within a week or two both MotorTrend and Car&Driver and bunch of tuner magazines will have compared the two on the track and the definite truth will be out as far as how much faster(or even) the two are in the twisties(cause we already know the cobras faster in the straight line).

:devil::devil::devil:look at the numbers. very close.

zl1= so easy a cave man can drive it. :D
shelby= drivers car.

That is THE stupidest way to interpret that, says the mustang owner :eyes:

You ask any professional race car driver and they'll answer and praise the same of how much the car was giving them perfect feedback and giving them the confident to push the car to it's limit ect. Not how much they loved the haste of wrestling with the car that didn't give them confident to push it.

God that was a dumb logic, I hope you were joking!

these cars sound too quiet

Funny you bring up stop light to stop light because most people can't launch a 6 speed car as hard as a auto car and it becomes even more so on the street so the ZL1 will not be a slouch in that department either.Good point...in any straight line contest the 2013 GT500 is clearly the winner every single time (against the manual or automatic ZL1) with a good driver in both cars. But when talking about just 'average' or 'new to a manual trans' type drivers the automatic ZL1 will put up a very solid fight.
Now, I'm never one to look at the 'average' or the 'what most people run' numbers when it comes to performance, only the all out best capabilities so from that perspective it's still all GT500, in a straight line at least.

Good point...in any straight line contest the 2013 GT500 is clearly the winner every single time (against the manual or automatic ZL1) with a good driver in both cars. But when talking about just 'average' or 'new to a manual trans' type drivers the automatic ZL1 will put up a very solid fight.
Now, I'm never one to look at the 'average' or the 'what most people run' numbers when it comes to performance, only the all out best capabilities so from that perspective it's still all GT500, in a straight line at least.

I agree with you on the GT500 being the out right fastest in a straight line but alot of people are butt hurt by the ZL1 beating the GT500 in this comparasion because they say people spend more time going fast then taking the twisties so to that I say most of us play from lights or impromptu dig races at which the auto will be hard to beat.

The cars alright but like i said, you can't compare the ZL1 with the GT500. The GT500 is on another level. I can see someone preferring the ZL1 over the GT500 only if A. They are GM fan boys or B. If they are going to be at the track every week. Lets be serious here though 1/10 people on here go to the track enough to justify the tiny marginal difference between the two on the track. People on here are such nut hugging GM fan boys. That they wont let this die already. Ford decimated GM this year.


Funny you say ricer, you are aware that japan has always had superior handling cars than the U.S right? So saying that the ZL1 is AWESOME because it handles great and then saying japanesse or hondas are ricer then it just shows how retarded you are.

Have you ever owned a civic? have you ever owned a FWD car and taken turns with it? Im not sure if your aware but there are NA civics out there at the track destroying vipers/corvettes and other high end cars. So saying a FWD CANT handle is just a retarded opinion if obviously there are other out there doing work with them at the track.

:jest:

Let me know when IRL goes FWD, because its obviously superior...

Did you know that japan has always had more reliable cars as well?:eyes:

Sorry, I was unaware of Civics handling capabilities, can you show me a comparo of these STOCK civics vs. Vipers/Corvettes? Handling only obviously.

"Ford decimated GM this year."- yeah, we are the fanboys. you keep on:sack:

*Edit- "I can see someone preferring the ZL1 over the GT500 only if A. They are GM fan boys or B. If they are going to be at the track every week." LOL, you talk like 580 is nothing because the GT500 has more? get your head out of your ass and realize that you dont have to be racing every weekend to prefer one over the other when both of which have more than enough power for the street.

Straight line performance is flat out an embarrassment.
GM flapping their gums about the ZL1 dominating the GT500 is an embarrassment. Being happy with "the twisties" is an embarrassment. Ford kicked GM's ass. That should be an embarrassment.

Handling? Is this Honda tech.com?

+1... I dont care for the new Camaro at all. Stop putting on weight and offsetting the extra power you are giving these cars GM. Pull your head out of your ass and get back down to 3400lbs. Trash the retro look and come up with something new. Above all else, When we are beat, dont go ranting about handling/ride quality. This is ls1tech, not 240sx forums. /endrant.

That is THE stupidest way to interpret that, says the mustang owner :eyes:

You ask any professional race car driver and they'll answer and praise the same of how much the car was giving them perfect feedback and giving them the confident to push the car to it's limit ect. Not how much they loved the haste of wrestling with the car that didn't give them confident to push it.

God that was a dumb logic, I hope you were joking!

1 in a row. who's next?

of course i was being sarcastic. why do you think the excessive usage of the smileys?

Funny you say ricer, you are aware that japan has always had superior handling cars than the U.S right? So saying that the ZL1 is AWESOME because it handles great and then saying japanesse or hondas are ricer then it just shows how retarded you are.
Gotta comment on these gems.
Originally Japanese cars were always more focused on handling, while American performance cars were generally more focused on acceleration. That started to turn around in the 80s, and got better from there.
I think what you are missing here in this example is that the ZL1 is "awesome" because it can accelerate, brake AND turn, not just one or the other.


Have you ever owned a civic? have you ever owned a FWD car and taken turns with it? Im not sure if your aware but there are NA civics out there at the track destroying vipers/corvettes and other high end cars. So saying a FWD CANT handle is just a retarded opinion if obviously there are other out there doing work with them at the track.
You're kidding right? Stock Civic's handle like trash compared to a RWD car made for handling. As for "NA civics destroying vettes/vipers", yeah fully gutted/caged/race suspension and the widest R-compound tires you can fit against bone stock vettes/vipers with inexperienced drivers on really tight corners.
Apples to apples FWD SUCKS for handling compared to RWD.

+1... I dont care for the new Camaro at all. Stop putting on weight and offsetting the extra power you are giving these cars GM. Pull your head out of your ass and get back down to 3400lbs. Trash the retro look and come up with something new. Above all else, When we are beat, dont go ranting about handling/ride quality. This is ls1tech, not 240sx forums. /endrant.

You do realize that these cars are built to do everything not just a dedicated drag car right? Cars that have v8's with blowers and all the things to keep them happy and make them handle along with the safety items required make for a heavier car nothing we can do about unless you want a v6 or 4 banger.It's seems like alot of people will never be happy and will always find something to complain about.

Anybody know what the warranty is on both the GT500 and ZL1? just wondering off hand ;) I can't wait until the Camaro goes to the ATS's platform :)

Anybody know what the warranty is on both the GT500 and ZL1? just wondering off hand ;) I can't wait until the Camaro goes to the ATS's platform :)

That's a good question I wonder what happens when these boys start breaking things if there going to have a hard time on either side.

That's a good question I wonder what happens when these boys start breaking things if there going to have a hard time on either side.

well, if they';re modified, you and i know they will have voided warranties. other than that, i thought i'd read somewhere that they'd have the standard warranties.....

That's a good question I wonder what happens when these boys start breaking things if there going to have a hard time on either side.

The GT500 has already proven itself, I have no doubt it will hold up much better than the ZL1.

The GT500 has already proven itself, I have no doubt it will hold up much better than the ZL1.

Check out C5. There seems to be quite a few issues with the Z.

So for over 63k you can buy a GT500 thats 3 tenths faster than the ZL1(55k)but wont out handle it in the turns?(still no VIR or Nurburgring times though i question Ford for such a long wait for releasing them if they ever do) If i ever had the money to buy a car for this much i would not spend it on a car who's only notable feature is going in a straight line fast. That being said i wouldnt buy this ZL1 either. For that price the interior is still garbage and the only thing ive ever liked about the 5thgen is the front end.

Ford on the other hand has once again nailed the interior as well as the rest of the car being very appealing though im kind of "meh" on the rear end. I consider myself biased as i would purchase either vehicle if i were in love with them 100perecnt but for the faults listed it would seem too painful to fork over 63k or even 55k in both of their current forms. Even IF the ZL1 out accelerated the GT500 i dont think i could buy it, the interior is just too much of an eye sore for me. I mean gauges on the center console, really?

Check out C5. There seems to be quite a few issues with the Z.

Are you talking about drivetrain problems or nit picky owners that cry over brake dust? Either way if you could please pôst a link thanks....:cheers:

So for over 63k you can buy a GT500 thats 3 tenths faster than the ZL1(55k)but wont out handle it in the turns?(still no VIR or Nurburgring times though i question Ford for such a long wait for releasing them if they ever do) If i ever had the money to buy a car for this much i would not spend it on a car who's only notable feature is going in a straight line fast. That being said i wouldnt buy this ZL1 either. For that price the interior is still garbage and the only thing ive ever liked about the 5thgen is the front end.

Ford on the other hand has once again nailed the interior as well as the rest of the car being very appealing though im kind of "meh" on the rear end. I consider myself biased as i would purchase either vehicle if i were in love with them 100perecnt but for the faults listed it would seem too painful to fork over 63k or even 55k in both of their current forms. Even IF the ZL1 out accelerated the GT500 i dont think i could buy it, the interior is just too much of an eye sore for me. I mean gauges on the center console, really?

you can't jusdg the handling of the shelby by the insideline thing. first off, that guy driving both cars probably couldn't handle a sonata. he looked pretty clueless.
secondly, the skidpad numbers on those are so dam close, that a different driver could've created very different numbers on both. even with those numbers, they would suggest that the cars could/would be very close in turns, although as mentioned by someone else, the type of turn could make a difference.
as for nurburgring, don't forget that there's been rumors that the shelbys ran in the 7:30's. you can't go by how long ford's waiting, because they're playing a very different game than al op is. al op is the little annoying dog, constantly making noise. jared hameedi simply speaks when he's ready.....and with each time he has, so far, he's slapped gm pretty well. kinda like "speak softly, and carry a big stick". the car is his stick.

someone mentioned durability, and multi-lapping. the shelby was run through massive durability tests last year. it'll probably be ok. i don't know what kind of durability testing gm did on the zl.

finally, am i the only one that noticed a slight bit more steering input on the camaro going through the slalom?

This article means exactly JACK SQUAT, in the read world...

The ZL1 is gonna get smashed on the streets and dominated on youtube, maybe GM should put a copy of this article in the glove box of every new ZL1, so they can pull it out and find solace after getting yanked by a '13 GT500 by 7-8 cars on the highway lol

I'm going to punch every single one I see in the face with a mild modded 5.0 and not give two shits as to whether it's a better ballerina afterwards LOL

And when did ride and handling become so important here? This place is full of F-bodies!!!

This article means exactly JACK SQUAT, in the read world...

The ZL1 is gonna get smashed on the streets and dominated on youtube, maybe GM should put a copy of this article in the glove box of every new ZL1, so they can pull it out and find solace after getting yanked by a '13 GT500 by 7-8 cars on the highway lol

I'm going to punch every single one I see in the face with a mild modded 5.0 and not give two shits as to whether it's a better ballerina afterwards LOL

And when did ride and handling become so important here? This place is full of F-bodies!!!
when it lost everywhere else?

when it lost everywhere else?


I guess so, maybe a set of orange cones in the trunk will be an option for 2013 so they can set up some parking lot slalom races!

This article means exactly JACK SQUAT, in the read world...
I guess it depends on what "real world" you are living in.
Where I think most humans live roads are not perfect smooth or perfectly strait, and someone in the market for something that only goes strait shouldn't be looking at the ZL1 anyway (for the same reason they should pass on the Corvette as well, these are all around cars, not just one trick horses.)


The ZL1 is gonna get smashed on the streets and dominated on youtube,

lol... oh noes!!! not the stop light bandits and the internet videos!!!



maybe GM should put a copy of this article in the glove box of every new ZL1, so they can pull it out and find solace after getting yanked by a '13 GT500 by 7-8 cars on the highway lol

I'm going to punch every single one I see in the face with a mild modded 5.0 and not give two shits as to whether it's a better ballerina afterwards LOL

Its funny seeing all this pent up, (20+ years worth of being dominated) rage being finally released by the Ford guys.

And when did ride and handling become so important here? This place is full of F-bodies!!!
When these cars became $50,000+.
Who the hell wants a $50K+ one trick horse?

20+ years is a bit of an exaggeration. by about 10 years.

I guess it depends on what "real world" you are living in.
Where I think most humans live roads are not perfect smooth or perfectly strait, and someone in the market for something that only goes strait shouldn't be looking at the ZL1 anyway (for the same reason they should pass on the Corvette as well, these are all around cars, not just one trick horses.)


lol... oh noes!!! not the stop light bandits and the internet videos!!!



Its funny seeing all this pent up, (20+ years worth of being dominated) rage being finally released by the Ford guys.

When these cars became $50,000+.
Who the hell wants a $50K+ one trick horse?


One trick horse?? The car stomps a mudhole in the ZL1 in a straight line, and will out handle a brand new GS Vette, you act as if it handles like a Jeep

^^^^^ Gotta love all the ford :sack: that are butt hurt that thier almighty GT500 was beat in a comparison get over yourself the ZL1 WON this round but relax their will be more people to test them and the next time ford might win until then ZL1>GT500

This article means exactly JACK SQUAT, in the read world...

The ZL1 is gonna get smashed on the streets and dominated on youtube, maybe GM should put a copy of this article in the glove box of every new ZL1, so they can pull it out and find solace after getting yanked by a '13 GT500 by 7-8 cars on the highway lol

I'm going to punch every single one I see in the face with a mild modded 5.0 and not give two shits as to whether it's a better ballerina afterwards LOL

And when did ride and handling become so important here? This place is full of F-bodies!!!

when it lost everywhere else?

I guess so, maybe a set of orange cones in the trunk will be an option for 2013 so they can set up some parking lot slalom races!

LMAO...I agree with this, I'm not a Ford fan, but I give it to them. Put a CAI and tune on a Boss, and your talking a neck and neck race with the ZL1. Handling is great to have, but, unless they are trying to now steer away from their roots, the Camaro is about drag racing and bragging rights, not .05 g's better on the skid pad. JMO though.

LMAO...I agree with this, I'm not a Ford fan, but I give it to them. Put a CAI and tune on a Boss, and your talking a neck and neck race with the ZL1. Handling is great to have, but, unless they are trying to now steer away from their roots, the Camaro is about drag racing and bragging rights, not .05 g's better on the skid pad. JMO though.

Love how people see one video of a sorry driver against a modded boss and everyone jumps on the boss wagon hell why not go one step further and add a blower to it and whip both the ZL1 and GT500? Bet you didn't think of that huh or put a big turbo on a import and do some highway pulls the results might surprise you.

As for going away from there roots no there just expanding the line up
1.Drag racing=COPO Camaro
2.Handing=1le
3.50/50 mix of both=SS
4.100% of both=ZL1
At the end of the day we all want a car that can do everything and cruise in comfort with the ac on if not then neither car is for you and you should spend your 50,000 plus on a dedicated track car.

^^^^^ Gotta love all the ford :sack: that are butt hurt that thier almighty GT500 was beat in a comparison get over yourself the ZL1 WON this round but relax their will be more people to test them and the next time ford might win until then ZL1>GT500

From C5. You said the ZL1 won what again???

Its funny to see most ZL1 fans here, state that the ZL1 is such a good handling car, or its made for the road course.

I'll re-post this again. I was at the track (Buttonwillow), last week, and there was a brand new Black ZL1 (owner is a member here), who previously owned a modified Camaro SS and a Z06, that he regulary tracked and auto x'd.

In his OWN words, he was VERY dis-appointed with the ZL1's performance at Buttonwillow. Especially being passed by stock Boss 302's. The best times he had that day, was 1:59 and a 2:01. The car started to suffer from the Heat, by the end of the day. The stock Boss 302's were doing 1:54's, and an owner with a stock LS with slicks, was running 1:50's. He thought (and I did as well), that the ZL1 was going to be a Track owners dream with a warranty. However, it still has the same understeer issues, the Camaro SS has.

I talked to the owner of the 2013 Boss 302, in which is was his first time out on a track (ouch). I had my high hopes for the ZL1 as well, but it is what it is. Hopefully GM comes back with a vengeance.

Like some of Mopar's products, the ZL1 is cool car, but when compared to others (regarding performance) - There are much better examples.

Love how people see one video of a sorry driver against a modded boss and everyone jumps on the boss wagon hell why not go one step further and add a blower to it and whip both the ZL1 and GT500? Bet you didn't think of that huh or put a big turbo on a import and do some highway pulls the results might surprise you.

As for going away from there roots no there just expanding the line up
1.Drag racing=COPO Camaro
2.Handing=1le
3.50/50 mix of both=SS
4.100% of both=ZL1
At the end of the day we all want a car that can do everything and cruise in comfort with the ac on if not then neither car is for you and you should spend your 50,000 plus on a dedicated track car.
the COPO is not street legal.

there's already been an 800+hp supercharged boss. it was done about 6 ot 7 months ago.

but i better shut mah face, lest hio come in here and "own" me again 'cause i ain't raced my car yet.

i like the way some are implying all of a sudden handling concerns is something new from car builders lol.


acceleration, handling and braking has always been compared among competitors as long as ive been paying attention.


but this argument was ok when a BOSS was brought up against a GS. :gruffy:

^^^^^ Gotta love all the ford :sack: that are butt hurt that thier almighty GT500 was beat in a comparison get over yourself the ZL1 WON this round but relax their will be more people to test them and the next time ford might win until then ZL1>GT500


Retard, the GT500 wins at every acceleration contest, top speed, option list, gas mileage, braking and isn't too far off on handling......if there's a one trick pony here, it's the ZL1, and this terrible review doesn't even substantiate that it's even the better car on a road course.

A supercharged 370ci motor running mid 12s is a complete and utter embarrassment.

Retard, the GT500 wins at every acceleration contest, top speed, option list, gas mileage and isn't too far off on handling......if there's a one trick pony here, it's the ZL1, and this terrible review doesn't even substantiate that it's even the better car on a road course.

A supercharged 370ci motor running mid 12s is a complete and utter embarrassment.

Agreed. :cheers:

From C5. You said the ZL1 won what again??? What does a random guy talking to two different drivers about two cars that where not compared together in this test? This is about the ZL1 vs GT500 and they placed the ZL1 ahead of the GT500 but because you don't like the results you and others try to find a reason to discredit them. Like I said relax there will be other comparo's and the next time it could be the GT500 on top but until then it's the ZL1 so enjoy:corn:

the COPO is not street legal.

there's already been an 800+hp supercharged boss. it was done about 6 ot 7 months ago. .
Never said the COPO was street legal noir was it might intent just showing that Chevy hasn't "strayed" from there roots just expanded to touch base with all car guys not just drag racers.

For the BOSS issue people are picking apart the ZL1 over a video that has already been called out that the driver of the ZL1 was having shifting issues and kept hitting the limiter then when the owner of the BOSS jumped on here tooting his horn he was called out by one of his friends that the driver of the ZL1 sucks at shifting and he still hasn't answered the callout of his supposed 420-430whp.

What does a random guy talking to two different drivers about two cars that where not compared together in this test? This is about the ZL1 vs GT500 and they placed the ZL1 ahead of the GT500 but because you don't like the results you and others try to find a reason to discredit them. Like I said relax there will be other comparo's and the next time it could be the GT500 on top but until then it's the ZL1 so enjoy:corn:

:huh: ummk

Never said the COPO was street legal noir was it might intent just showing that Chevy hasn't "strayed" from there roots just expanded to touch base with all car guys not just drag racers.

For the BOSS issue people are picking apart the ZL1 over a video that has already been called out that the driver of the ZL1 was having shifting issues and kept hitting the limiter then when the owner of the BOSS jumped on here tooting his horn he was called out by one of his friends that the driver of the ZL1 sucks at shifting and he still hasn't answered the callout of his supposed 420-430whp.

:lurk:

Retard, the GT500 wins at every acceleration contest, top speed, option list, gas mileage, braking and isn't too far off on handling......if there's a one trick pony here, it's the ZL1, and this terrible review doesn't even substantiate that it's even the better car on a road course.

A supercharged 370ci motor running mid 12s is a complete and utter embarrassment.
All of that and the ZL1 was still crowned number 1 guess there's more to a car then just speed huh go figure. You also forgot to mention that in order for it to be competitive against the ZL1 in all aspects is has to have both track options and cost over 8,000 more and that's alot of cash that could go towards mods to the ZL1 to make it beat the GT500 in EVERY aspect.

:lurk:

What nothing intelligent to say?

All of that and the ZL1 was still crowned number 1 guess there's more to a car then just speed huh go figure. You also forgot to mention that in order for it to be competitive against the ZL1 in all aspects is has to have both track options and cost over 8,000 more and that's alot of cash that could go towards mods to the ZL1 to make it beat the GT500 in EVERY aspect.

is it 8k more comparably equipped?


if thats the case this 4000lb+ pig appears to holds its own.

What does a random guy talking to two different drivers about two cars that where not compared together in this test? This is about the ZL1 vs GT500 and they placed the ZL1 ahead of the GT500 but because you don't like the results you and others try to find a reason to discredit them. Like I said relax there will be other comparo's and the next time it could be the GT500 on top but until then it's the ZL1 so enjoy:corn:


Never said the COPO was street legal noir was it might intent just showing that Chevy hasn't "strayed" from there roots just expanded to touch base with all car guys not just drag racers.

For the BOSS issue people are picking apart the ZL1 over a video that has already been called out that the driver of the ZL1 was having shifting issues and kept hitting the limiter then when the owner of the BOSS jumped on here tooting his horn he was called out by one of his friends that the driver of the ZL1 sucks at shifting and he still hasn't answered the callout of his supposed 420-430whp.

yea i know on the video.

the copo is only just starting this year, so yea....for a bit, they did indeed stray. till this there was no drag racing camaro you could buy from chevy, while the cobrajet's been kickin ass and takin names for a few years now.

if i came up on a zl1, and actually raced him, i'd sure as hell hope he'd wipe the street up with my lowly gt, and would feel dam good if i stayed within a couple cars of him. a regular camaro on the other hand.......foot on the other shoe and all that.......

All of that and the ZL1 was still crowned number 1 guess there's more to a car then just speed huh go figure. You also forgot to mention that in order for it to be competitive against the ZL1 in all aspects is has to have both track options and cost over 8,000 more and that's alot of cash that could go towards mods to the ZL1 to make it beat the GT500 in EVERY aspect.

ya gotta admit....the guy driving, and doign the review was pretty much a dork.

that said....to the guy that called you a retard.......i suspect he's way off......and dood....chill on the name calling, before the thread gets locked......

Love how people see one video of a sorry driver against a modded boss and everyone jumps on the boss wagon hell why not go one step further and add a blower to it and whip both the ZL1 and GT500? Bet you didn't think of that huh or put a big turbo on a import and do some highway pulls the results might surprise you.

As for going away from there roots no there just expanding the line up
1.Drag racing=COPO Camaro
2.Handing=1le
3.50/50 mix of both=SS
4.100% of both=ZL1
At the end of the day we all want a car that can do everything and cruise in comfort with the ac on if not then neither car is for you and you should spend your 50,000 plus on a dedicated track car.


I'm actually not going off any video. I know the video you speak of, but have not watched it, as I really don't care. Fact's are, the Boss can run high 11's with basically nothing. Intake, tune, throw in some DR's, you got an 11 second car. Hell, I remember some guys had a 5.0 meet and outing, and there was a Auto 5.0 GT with DR's, CAI, X-pipe, and tune, who ran 11.8 at (above 117, don't remember the exact number). So, like I said, I'm not talking about blower's, I'm talking about a Boss with a mod or two, or a GT with about the same, maybe one or two more mods. Believe it or not ( I don't care) the ZL1 will have trouble with very mildly modded Boss's and 5.0's. Is it faster stock? Of course, but 2 or 3 mods can put these new 5.0 in the 11's fairly easily.

20+ years is a bit of an exaggeration. by about 10 years.
LT1 Camaro came out in 1993 (and it only got uglier for Ford from there), so almost 20 years. The 03/04 Cobra was the only one that could take the LS1 fbodies in a strait line (including the 3V mustangs), but it utterly failed on a road course.

One trick horse?? The car stomps a mudhole in the ZL1 in a straight line, and will out handle a brand new GS Vette, you act as if it handles like a Jeep
Never said the GT500 was a one trick horse, just simply replying to what you asked about why people care about handling. We're not talking about $30K cars anymore...
and lol at "out handle a GS vette", I hope you are not trying to compare skidpad numbers or slalom speeds as if that is what "handling" is.

ya gotta admit....the guy driving, and doign the review was pretty much a dork.

that said....to the guy that called you a retard.......i suspect he's way off......and dood....chill on the name calling, before the thread gets locked......

The guy may not have been a "pro" but neither are 99% of the people that will buy these cars so I still feel that's a great comparison but I also said that there will be other people to test them with better drivers on better tracks and the GT500 could come out on top but we won't know until then we have to accept that the ZL1 is one up against a car that should by all means destroy the ZL1 yet it can't. Sorry ford fan boys better luck next round.

The guy may not have been a "pro" but neither are 99% of the people that will buy these cars so I still feel that's a great comparison but I also said that there will be other people to test them with better drivers on better tracks and the GT500 could come out on top but we won't know until then we have to accept that the ZL1 is one up against a car that should by all means destroy the ZL1 yet it can't. Sorry ford fan boys better luck next round.

I still don't see how losing at almost every performance statistic is called "winning" because one dipshit, out drove another on some back road.

If the roles were reversed, we'd never hear the end of how fast the ZL1 is in a straight line and how that's all that matters...last time I checked the kill section it was 99.999999999% straight line racing videos/stories

Fact remains, these thing are gonna get smashed in the real world, kinda like how your beloved LS1 destroyed the 2V GTs, so enjoy your magazine bragging rights for now LOLOLOL

I'm actually not going off any video. I know the video you speak of, but have not watched it, as I really don't care. Fact's are, the Boss can run high 11's with basically nothing. Intake, tune, throw in some DR's, you got an 11 second car. Hell, I remember some guys had a 5.0 meet and outing, and there was a Auto 5.0 GT with DR's, CAI, X-pipe, and tune, who ran 11.8 at (above 117, don't remember the exact number). So, like I said, I'm not talking about blower's, I'm talking about a Boss with a mod or two, or a GT with about the same, maybe one or two more mods. Believe it or not ( I don't care) the ZL1 will have trouble with very mildly modded Boss's and 5.0's. Is it faster stock? Of course, but 2 or 3 mods can put these new 5.0 in the 11's fairly easily.

Agreed, but at the same time people are trying to show how a lightly modded boss or gt can run with or beat a ZL1 but you don't stop to think that they are also right there with a stock GT500 as far as et goes and that's what wins the race not mph.

I'm actually not going off any video. I know the video you speak of, but have not watched it, as I really don't care. Fact's are, the Boss can run high 11's with basically nothing. Intake, tune, throw in some DR's, you got an 11 second car. Hell, I remember some guys had a 5.0 meet and outing, and there was a Auto 5.0 GT with DR's, CAI, X-pipe, and tune, who ran 11.8 at (above 117, don't remember the exact number). So, like I said, I'm not talking about blower's, I'm talking about a Boss with a mod or two, or a GT with about the same, maybe one or two more mods. Believe it or not ( I don't care) the ZL1 will have trouble with very mildly modded Boss's and 5.0's. Is it faster stock? Of course, but 2 or 3 mods can put these new 5.0 in the 11's fairly easily.

the problem with your argument is that a couple of mods on the ZL1 will put the ZL1 way ahead...When you start to mod, usually FI cars have more potential.

I really dont know why people get so butt hurt over this comparison. Both of these cars are really close in performance of each other, i really doubt someone will change their decision to purchase either car based off of a review given buy Insideline or anyone else for that matter. People like what they like and will buy what they like. Ive known alot of females whos only reason to buy a car was because it was "pretty". And using Youtube videos as proof with no time slips or verifiable data is fail.

Retard, the GT500 wins at every acceleration contest, top speed, option list, gas mileage, braking and isn't too far off on handling......if there's a one trick pony here, it's the ZL1, and this terrible review doesn't even substantiate that it's even the better car on a road course.

A supercharged 370ci motor running mid 12s is a complete and utter embarrassment.

Actually GM has noted the ZL1 in stock trim running 11.9.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/May/0504_camaro_zl1.html

Yes i realize its still slower than the GT500 but just trying to keep the facts straight.

I think fords answer to the ZL1 is the Boss 302. It out performed the GT500 in damn near every catagory to include 0-60, 1/4 mile, and road course. I'm not a mustang fan but the Boss 302 is certainly not to be underestimated. Over priced I'm certain though.

Roach

you can't jusdg the handling of the shelby by the insideline thing. first off, that guy driving both cars probably couldn't handle a sonata. he looked pretty clueless.
secondly, the skidpad numbers on those are so dam close, that a different driver could've created very different numbers on both. even with those numbers, they would suggest that the cars could/would be very close in turns, although as mentioned by someone else, the type of turn could make a difference.
as for nurburgring, don't forget that there's been rumors that the shelbys ran in the 7:30's. you can't go by how long ford's waiting, because they're playing a very different game than al op is. al op is the little annoying dog, constantly making noise. jared hameedi simply speaks when he's ready.....and with each time he has, so far, he's slapped gm pretty well. kinda like "speak softly, and carry a big stick". the car is his stick.

someone mentioned durability, and multi-lapping. the shelby was run through massive durability tests last year. it'll probably be ok. i don't know what kind of durability testing gm did on the zl.

finally, am i the only one that noticed a slight bit more steering input on the camaro going through the slalom?


I agree, but they have been testing at the "Ring" well before the car was released and Magazines have been doing reviews going on 3 weeks now, im just wondering whats the hold up. I think it would really put to rest all the naysayers who doubt that the GT500 will handle. Im just excited to see a solid axle car make a good time there. If Ford can manage it, it would be an incredible feat for a Live Axel!

I dont read up on new cars but i thought the boss was just a better gt?

I dont read up on new cars but i thought the boss was just a better gt?

the boss302 is inbetween the gt500 and the gt. there is a significant difference between the boss302 and the gt, not the least of which is the engine.

I still don't see how losing at almost every performance statistic is called "winning" because one dipshit, out drove another on some back road.

If the roles were reversed, we'd never hear the end of how fast the ZL1 is in a straight line and how that's all that matters...last time I checked the kill section it was 99.999999999% straight line racing videos/stories

Fact remains, these thing are gonna get smashed in the real world, kinda like how your beloved LS1 destroyed the 2V GTs, so enjoy your magazine bragging rights for now LOLOLOL

I agree. That's the thing who is going to race these cars against each other like there in the movie Tokyo drift?. Bottom line gt500 is faster 1/4 , top speed and can handle more power on a stock block. Ford mustangs are faster now than the camaros . Some people just need to accept it.

I agree. That's the thing who is going to race these cars against each other like there in the movie Tokyo drift?. Bottom line gt500 is faster 1/4 , top speed and can handle more power on a stock block. Ford mustangs are faster now than the camaros . Some people just need to accept it.

Nobody's arguing the fact that's it's not faster just that there's more to a car then just straight line speed and yes performance wise the gt beats out the ss and the gt500 is faster then the zl1 but with this review it was considered that the zl1 was a more complete package why do you have a hard time accepting that? These are not just drag cars and neither company has tried to sell us on that they both preach how there car is the best at everything it was made for not just the 1320.

Actually GM has noted the ZL1 in stock trim running 11.9.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/May/0504_camaro_zl1.html

Yes i realize its still slower than the GT500 but just trying to keep the facts straight.

Ya that's GM testing with questionable results, no owner has come close to those times, on the other hand a guy on SVT went 11.2s@128 on a DR only '13

It amazes me how a 580hp car is now better than 662HP car because it can slightly handles better. Keep fooling yourself we all know were these cars well meet most of the time.

It amazes me how a 580hp car is now better than 662HP car because it can slightly handles better. Keep fooling yourself we all know were these cars well meet most of the time.

If by better you mean faster yes it is but just because it's faster doesn't mean it's a better car. Remember we're not testing drag cars were testing street cars.

Ya that's GM testing with questionable results, no owner has come close to those times, on the other hand a guy on SVT went 11.2s@128 on a DR only '13

In Motor Trends review of the ZL1 they do mention sub 12sec 1/4 mile times so that validates GMs claim of 11.9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygVmlmhrO4
Move to time index @2:40. GM has not released DR times for the ZL1 to my knowledge. A Automatic ZL1 owner on Camaro5 posted 11.4@120.88 with skinnys and slicks, no other mods, 200 miles on the motor. That would be 5 tenths faster than GM's time in stock trim of 11.9. I would imagine an excellent driver with a manual could be faster.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219801

is it 8k more comparably equipped?


if thats the case this 4000lb+ pig appears to holds its own.


Yea it is a pig, but a piggy that can dance around a track and scoot down the 1/4 decently.

In Motor Trends review of the ZL1 they do mention sub 12sec 1/4 mile times so that validates GMs claim of 11.9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygVmlmhrO4
Move to time index @2:40. GM has not released DR times for the ZL1 to my knowledge. A Automatic ZL1 owner on Camaro5 posted 11.4@120.88 with skinnys and slicks, no other mods, 200 miles on the motor. That would be 5 tenths faster than GM's time in stock trim of 11.9. I would imagine an excellent driver with a manual could be faster.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219801

half a second seems about right for full slicks, with skinnies up front.

Actually GM has noted the ZL1 in stock trim running 11.9.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/May/0504_camaro_zl1.html

Yes i realize its still slower than the GT500 but just trying to keep the facts straight.

Yes, we all believe that... very credible source and realistic 60' time. :sack:

ZL1 dragtimes are similar to 2011 GT500 in the low 12's, which is not surprise as they have nearly identical power\weight ratios. Next.

It amazes me how a 580hp car is now better than 662HP car because it can slightly handles better. Keep fooling yourself we all know were these cars well meet most of the time.

In Motor Trends review of the ZL1 they do mention sub 12sec 1/4 mile times so that validates GMs claim of 11.9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygVmlmhrO4
Move to time index @2:40. GM has not released DR times for the ZL1 to my knowledge. A Automatic ZL1 owner on Camaro5 posted 11.4@120.88 with skinnys and slicks, no other mods, 200 miles on the motor. That would be 5 tenths faster than GM's time in stock trim of 11.9. I would imagine an excellent driver with a manual could be faster.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219801

Interesting that seems pretty close to a tire only GT500 not to shabby for 100 less Hp and a couple hundred extra pounds. I think even though the mph difference is drastic it just goes to show that the auto zl1 will have nothing to fear stop light to stop light.

Interesting that seems pretty close to a tire only GT500 not to shabby for 100 less Hp and a couple hundred extra pounds. I think even though the mph difference is drastic it just goes to show that the auto zl1 will have nothing to fear stop light to stop light.

Stop light to stop light? Lol that's like saying a 2v mustang gt has nothing to fear from a ls1 fbody stop light to stop light. Both cars have potential to be made fast but the gt500 is just the faster car.

Yes, we all believe that... very credible source and realistic 60' time. :sack:

ZL1 dragtimes are similar to 2011 GT500 in the low 12's, which is not surprise as they have nearly identical power\weight ratios. Next.

Call it how ever you want, i already listed the MT review commenting on sub 12sec runs in stock trim. Its your choice to believe your own conspiracy theory. Companys are going to list their BEST run achieved not the average. GM was obviously trying to put the ZL1 in the same ballpark as the 2013 GT500 to keep buyers after Ford 1 upped them. Im sure the runs were made on a cool day with good DA and great track prep with them trying to maximize all variables to pull a few more tenths in. Then again MT did manage to pull sub 12s in the ZL1 also so what does that tell you? Oh yea thats right they must be in on the conspiracy too......Now whos riding the sack fanboy?

Stop light to stop light? Lol that's like saying a 2v mustang gt has nothing to fear from a ls1 fbody stop light to stop light. Both cars have potential to be made fast but the gt500 is just the faster car.

Once again I've never said the ZL1 was faster then the GT500 EVER!!!! Like I've said before a auto ZL1 against a GT500 will be interesting since most people can't properly launch a stick car at the track let alone the street. Remember the auto is king when it comes to easily and consistently putting down the power.

Call it how ever you want, i already listed the MT review commenting on sub 12sec runs in stock trim. Its your choice to believe your own conspiracy theory. Companys are going to list their BEST run achieved not the average. GM was obviously trying to put the ZL1 in the same ballpark as the 2013 GT500 to keep buyers after Ford 1 upped them. Im sure the runs were made on a cool day with good DA and great track prep with them trying to maximize all variables to pull a few more tenths in. Then again MT did manage to pull sub 12s in the ZL1 also so what does that tell you? Oh yea thats right they must be in on the conspiracy too......Now whos riding the sack fanboy?

didn';t ford just list their average?

Call it how ever you want, i already listed the MT review commenting on sub 12sec runs in stock trim. Its your choice to believe your own conspiracy theory. Companys are going to list their BEST run achieved not the average. GM was obviously trying to put the ZL1 in the same ballpark as the 2013 GT500 to keep buyers after Ford 1 upped them. Im sure the runs were made on a cool day with good DA and great track prep with them trying to maximize all variables to pull a few more tenths in. Then again MT did manage to pull sub 12s in the ZL1 also so what does that tell you? Oh yea thats right they must be in on the conspiracy too......Now whos riding the sack fanboy?

Where did MT run sub 12s? They were quoting the bogus GM numbers when they said that. The car is capable of running an 11.9/11.8 maybe with negative DA, but it has yet to do so. IIRC someone that was at the track the day GM was gunning for 11s said it was running 12.4-12.5 all day until they put the DRs on it.

Call it how ever you want, i already listed the MT review commenting on sub 12sec runs in stock trim. Its your choice to believe your own conspiracy theory. Companys are going to list their BEST run achieved not the average. GM was obviously trying to put the ZL1 in the same ballpark as the 2013 GT500 to keep buyers after Ford 1 upped them. Im sure the runs were made on a cool day with good DA and great track prep with them trying to maximize all variables to pull a few more tenths in. Then again MT did manage to pull sub 12s in the ZL1 also so what does that tell you? Oh yea thats right they must be in on the conspiracy too......Now whos riding the sack fanboy?

Zl1 12sec car GT500 11sec car.. now mod for mod? ...lol

Zl1 12sec car GT500 11sec car.. now mod for mod? ...lol

i think mod for mod the zl will still lose. very little work it seemed to put the500 into the 9's.

i think mod for mod the zlwill get killed. very little work it seemed to put the500 into the 9's.

Fixed. Lighter, makes more power, and can hold more power

didn';t ford just list their average?

I would assume they listed their best time, i will try to find the official press release.

Where did MT run sub 12s? They were quoting the bogus GM numbers when they said that. The car is capable of running an 11.9/11.8 maybe with negative DA, but it has yet to do so. IIRC someone that was at the track the day GM was gunning for 11s said it was running 12.4-12.5 all day until they put the DRs on it.

Watch the MT review again @ index 2:30. Carlos(the driver) states a sub 12sec run and 0-60 in 3.8 time verifying GMs claim of 11.9. He also says its not the most consistent as i would assume doing repeated runs with a manual like that comes down to driver skill. GM also stated in the press release that DRs were not used to achieve the 11.9. If you have verifiable proof of them using DRs for the 11.9 then post or link it please. Saying that you know someone(my brothers friends uncle) who saw them use DRs really isnt proof.

i think mod for mod the zl will still lose. very little work it seemed to put the500 into the 9's.

No doubt, i dont think the LSA's 1.9 can overcome the bigger more efficient 2.3 its at a natural disadvantage.

Watch the MT review again @ index 2:30. Carlos(the driver) states a sub 12sec run and 0-60 in 3.8 time verifying GMs claim of 11.9. He also says its not the most consistent as i would assume doing repeated runs with a manual like that comes down to driver skill. GM also stated in the press release that DRs were not used to achieve the 11.9. If you have verifiable proof of them using DRs for the 11.9 then post or link it please. Saying that you know someone(my brothers friends uncle) who saw them use DRs really isnt proof.

But them saying they didn't use the, while posting a video of them using them, is proof?? They would have showed the video of street tires going 11.9 if they had done it. It's a shame they have to lie like that as the car could do it, just not in the conditions they had that day. Just like their engineer talking about how they ran simulations that showed the ZL1 was going to beat the GT500 back when Ford said 650hp.

But them saying they didn't use the, while posting a video of them using them, is proof?? They would have showed the video of street tires going 11.9 if they had done it. It's a shame they have to lie like that as the car could do it, just not in the conditions they had that day. Just like their engineer talking about how they ran simulations that showed the ZL1 was going to beat the GT500 back when Ford said 650hp.

I admit the video with the GM engineers is pretty gray and leaves alot to be speculated about. But there has been no evidence thus far to indicate they were lying.

didn';t ford just list their average?

Best i could find was http://mustangsdaily.com/blog/2012/05/22/2013-shelby-gt500-0-60-mph-in-3-5-sec-14-mile-in-11-6-sec-126-mph/

MT achieved the best run from the 2013 GT500, other reviews were showing 11.8-low 12s.

Flame me all you want...

But if I was to buy either, I think I'd still buy the GT-500. But would rather have the Boss 302 LS.

Got to drive one for the day and at the track and It has to be the best car Ford has produced in a VERY long time. First "Drivers" car the way it felt.

Im not at all surprised by the ZL1's performance solely because I am very familiar with what the Gen II CTS-V's run with the same powerplant, and similar vehicle weight. It will probably take a 2.3L blower upgrade and LS9-spec cam to keep up with the competition using the current Zeta platform.

What does surprise me however is the fact that the '13 GT500 has been putting down roughly 600rwhp (highest being ~609whp) and averaging mid 11's at ~125mph in the 1/4 mile, @ 3650 pounds. That seems a bit slow to me. Just for reference sake, when the ZR1 debuted with 530-540whp @ 3350 pounds, it wasn't long until we saw some bottom 11s/high 10s @ 131-134 traps. I would expect to see quicker times out of this car with its exceptional power to weight ratio.

Im not at all surprised by the ZL1's performance solely because I am very familiar with what the Gen II CTS-V's run with the same powerplant, and similar vehicle weight. It will probably take a 2.3L blower upgrade and LS9-spec cam to keep up with the competition using the current Zeta platform.

What does surprise me however is the fact that the '13 GT500 has been putting down roughly 600rwhp (highest being ~609whp) and averaging mid 11's at ~125mph in the 1/4 mile, @ 3650 pounds. That seems a bit slow to me. Just for reference sake, when the ZR1 debuted with 530-540whp @ 3350 pounds, it wasn't long until we saw some bottom 11s/high 10s @ 131-134 traps. I would expect to see quicker times out of this car with its exceptional power to weight ratio.

Could it be the taller gears holding it back? I know they are good for the MPG and 200MPH features but couldnt shorter gears shave some tenths off? Traction could be an issue but i wonder if the TC could help compensate for this? Also some have said LS motors make a little bit more power once they are broken in though i have no experience with this myself only what i have read, could the same be said with Ford motors? Maybe some tenths could come off as the Shelby breaks in more?

Could it be the taller gears holding it back? I know they are good for the MPG and 200MPH features but couldnt shorter gears shave some tenths off? Traction could be an issue but i wonder if the TC could help compensate for this? Also some have said LS motors make a little bit more power once they are broken in though i have no experience with this myself only what i have read, could the same be said with Ford motors? Maybe some tenths could come off as the Shelby breaks in more?

Could be possibly, im not familiar with the gearing on them. I just figure with a power to weight ratio better than a ZR1 they would be a bit quicker/faster on average.

Could be possibly, im not familiar with the gearing on them. I just figure with a power to weight ratio better than a ZR1 they would be a bit quicker/faster on average.

They have a slightly worse (3850lbs, not 3650) power to weight than the ZR1 does, but the gearing isn't as good as the ZR1 and they can't put the power down as soon as a ZR1.

Another thing to remember is DA for the day it was run and how hot the supercharger was. There are a lot of ZR1s that run 125-129 traps, which is what the GT500 has been doing. I'm sure the ZR1 still has the edge, but all the really fast times you read about happen in negative DA with cool temperatures, not during the middle of summer.

They have a slightly worse (3850lbs, not 3650) power to weight than the ZR1 does, but the gearing isn't as good as the ZR1 and they can't put the power down as soon as a ZR1.

Another thing to remember is DA for the day it was run and how hot the supercharger was. There are a lot of ZR1s that run 125-129 traps, which is what the GT500 has been doing. I'm sure the ZR1 still has the edge, but all the really fast times you read about happen in negative DA with cool temperatures, not during the middle of summer.

Correct the listed curb weight is 3860 pounds. Must have been thinking of the GT's listed curb weight. Thanks for the clarification.

As for the ZR1 running those numbers in Neg. DA, I recently watched Brent (916 BREDWNR) run his bone-stock ZR1 to 11.1@130 in the 92* heat. His best DR-only time is 10.69 in +580ft. Some good negative DA plus the driver mod can get you mid to high 10s and 132-134 traps in those things. Crazy :eek:

No doubt, i dont think the LSA's 1.9 can overcome the bigger more efficient 2.3 its at a natural disadvantage.

yes, but the air pump that that bigger more efficient 2.3 is bolted to is smaller than the air pump that the smaller 1.9 is bolted to.

I admit the video with the GM engineers is pretty gray and leaves alot to be speculated about. But there has been no evidence thus far to indicate they were lying.

what he's talking about i think, is that in the video they released, all the runs appear to be shown on drag radials. i think

Im not at all surprised by the ZL1's performance solely because I am very familiar with what the Gen II CTS-V's run with the same powerplant, and similar vehicle weight. It will probably take a 2.3L blower upgrade and LS9-spec cam to keep up with the competition using the current Zeta platform.

What does surprise me however is the fact that the '13 GT500 has been putting down roughly 600rwhp (highest being ~609whp) and averaging mid 11's at ~125mph in the 1/4 mile, @ 3650 pounds. That seems a bit slow to me. Just for reference sake, when the ZR1 debuted with 530-540whp @ 3350 pounds, it wasn't long until we saw some bottom 11s/high 10s @ 131-134 traps. I would expect to see quicker times out of this car with its exceptional power to weight ratio.

where did they lose 200 pounds?

BASE CURB WEIGHT (pounds)
Coupe
3,852
Convertible
3,970
Weight distribution, front/rear
57/43 coupe, 56/44 convertible
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_GT500_Specs.pdf

Could be possibly, im not familiar with the gearing on them. I just figure with a power to weight ratio better than a ZR1 they would be a bit quicker/faster on average.

thr 013 gt500 only comes with a 3.31 rear.

yes, but the air pump that that bigger more efficient 2.3 is bolted to is smaller than the air pump that the smaller 1.9 is bolted to.

Just curious what you meant by this, my FI knowledge is limited. So what you mean is that it takes more power to turn the 2.3 than the 1.9 correct? So would that mean the 1.9 can overcome the size advantage of the 2.3? Just not sure i am following you correctly.

yes, but the air pump that that bigger more efficient 2.3 is bolted to is smaller than the air pump that the smaller 1.9 is bolted to.

True but we all know the difference in blower size and boost levels is more beneficial then the .4L motor advantage the ZL1 has.

Flame me all you want...

But if I was to buy either, I think I'd still buy the GT-500. But would rather have the Boss 302 LS.

Got to drive one for the day and at the track and It has to be the best car Ford has produced in a VERY long time. First "Drivers" car the way it felt.

Hell yea and the Forged internals are just begging to be supercharged. This setup would prob be the more budget friendly way to go to compete and surpass both the ZL1 and GT500.

Just curious what you meant by this, my FI knowledge is limited. So what you mean is that it takes more power to turn the 2.3 than the 1.9 correct? So would that mean the 1.9 can overcome the size advantage of the 2.3? Just not sure i am following you correctly.

no. what i mean is that the bigger supercharger is on a smaller displacement engine, and the smaller supercharger is on a bigger displacement engine.

an engine is nothing more than a big, hot, loud(preferably) air pump.

BTW..i'm not meaning to sound like a dick.......

no. what i mean is that the bigger supercharger is on a smaller displacement engine, and the smaller supercharger is on a bigger displacement engine.

an engine is nothing more than a big, hot, loud(preferably) air pump.

BTW..i'm not meaning to sound like a dick.......

ahh ok gotcha thanks for clarifying thought you were talking about actual part of the blowers. Would the old adage of "no replacement for displacement" be null here since these motors are FI? For example the Toyota 2JZ motor is known to easily break 1khp. Would .4L or i think its like 7percent really make that much of a difference?

ahh ok gotcha thanks for clarifying thought you were talking about actual part of the blowers. Would the old adage of "no replacement for displacement" be null here since these motors are FI? For example the Toyota 2JZ motor is known to easily break 1khp. Would .4L or i think its like 7percent really make that much of a difference?

most likely not to be honest. and there still is no replacement for displacement, for the most part.

remember.....the engine is just a biiig air pump. the more air it can move, the more hp it can make.

As for the ZR1 running those numbers in Neg. DA, I recently watched Brent (916 BREDWNR) run his bone-stock ZR1 to 11.1@130 in the 92* heat. His best DR-only time is 10.69 in +580ft. Some good negative DA plus the driver mod can get you mid to high 10s and 132-134 traps in those things. Crazy :eek:10.26@135+ actually. ;)
Stock C6 ZR1 with drag radials:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SIRFJKgs6c

So the ZL1 crowd will use the twisty excuse every time they lose a race?
That does remind me of something!!!

So the ZL1 crowd will use the twisty excuse every time they lose a race?
That does remind me of something!!!

doubt it, its already proven the 2013 GT500 is faster. Unless you have been living under a rock everyone knows the GT500 owns the 1/4 currently.

doubt it, its already proven the 2013 GT500 is faster. Unless you have been living under a rock everyone knows the GT500 owns the 1/4 currently.

the 1/4, 0-60, 0-100, 0-150, top speed, 60-0 fuel mileage, and i'd be willing to bet that someone with any sort of clue in one of them will easily produce equal skidpad numbers to the zl. :D

yes, but the air pump that that bigger more efficient 2.3 is bolted to is smaller than the air pump that the smaller 1.9 is bolted to.

That smaller "air pump" also has four camshaft's and four valves per cylinder. Besides, the efficiency of the Eaton 2.3L is on an entirely different level compared to the smaller 1.9L, and easily negates the minimal 22 cu. in. advantage the LSA has over the 5.8L 4v.

10.26@135+ actually. ;)
Stock C6 ZR1 with drag radials:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SIRFJKgs6c

I have got to get one of those in my garage one day. :drool:

That smaller "air pump" also has four camshaft's and four valves per cylinder. Besides, the efficiency of the Eaton 2.3L is on an entirely different level compared to the smaller 1.9L, and easily negates the minimal 22 cu. in. advantage the LSA has over the 5.8L 4v.

sop wait? you're saying that fords airpump is better than chevys? :devil:

lol this shit is funny as hell. the cars are close. ford stepped it up at the last minute and kinda caught gm with their pants down. lets see what gm does next id love to see them match the hp and beat them in a heavier car but right now that 13 gt 500 is no joke i love gm and ford but fords new power plants made this muscle car war closer which im all for. door to door racing is fun and im glad ford stepped it up now its gm's turn which is good for us because now we have faster cars to play with isn't that what its about anyway..... puppy kicking a 2v just wasn't very much fun.... what i wanna know is where the fuck is dodge in all this, better strap a blower to that 392!!!

sop wait? you're saying that fords airpump is better than chevys? :devil:

Nooo just not at as much of an disadvantage as some claim that's all. :chug:

lol this shit is funny as hell. the cars are close. ford stepped it up at the last minute and kinda caught gm with their pants down. lets see what gm does next id love to see them match the hp and beat them in a heavier car but right now that 13 gt 500 is no joke i love gm and ford but fords new power plants made this muscle car war closer which im all for. door to door racing is fun and im glad ford stepped it up now its gm's turn which is good for us because now we have faster cars to play with isn't that what its about anyway..... puppy kicking a 2v just wasn't very much fun.... what i wanna know is where the fuck is dodge in all this, better strap a blower to that 392!!!

Not close at all. The Mustang has it beat by a good margin. Good being an understatement. lol

Nooo just not at as much of an disadvantage as some claim that's all. :chug:



Not close at all. The Mustang has it beat by a good margin. Good being an understatement. lol

i was being nice...lol

lol this shit is funny as hell. the cars are close. ford stepped it up at the last minute and kinda caught gm with their pants down. lets see what gm does next id love to see them match the hp and beat them in a heavier car but right now that 13 gt 500 is no joke i love gm and ford but fords new power plants made this muscle car war closer which im all for. door to door racing is fun and im glad ford stepped it up now its gm's turn which is good for us because now we have faster cars to play with isn't that what its about anyway..... puppy kicking a 2v just wasn't very much fun.... what i wanna know is where the fuck is dodge in all this, better strap a blower to that 392!!!

I think the 392 can hold its own compare to the zl1 and it does it all motor.

Nooo just not at as much of an disadvantage as some claim that's all. :chug:



Not close at all. The Mustang has it beat by a good margin. Good being an understatement. lol

excellently played sir. :cheers::engarde:

Not close at all. The Mustang has it beat by a good margin. Good being an understatement. lol

The ZL1 is pretty close to the 2011/2012 GT500, but it still has some catching up to do :lol:

the 1/4, 0-60, 0-100, 0-150, top speed, 60-0 fuel mileage, and i'd be willing to bet that someone with any sort of clue in one of them will easily produce equal skidpad numbers to the zl. :D

Yea maybe, but i honestly dont think in stock trim the GT500 has enough tire to surpass the ZL1 on the skid pad. The best we have seen is .98? to the ZL's 1.03(Insideline) Someone correct me if im wrong im just going off the top of my head. With an aftermarket set of wheels and tires i think it can def match or surpass a stock ZL on the skid pad. But i do recall the Ford engineers saying the reason they didnt go with the bigger tire in the rear was due to it causing the car to under steer.

lol this shit is funny as hell. the cars are close. ford stepped it up at the last minute and kinda caught gm with their pants down. lets see what gm does next id love to see them match the hp and beat them in a heavier car but right now that 13 gt 500 is no joke i love gm and ford but fords new power plants made this muscle car war closer which im all for. door to door racing is fun and im glad ford stepped it up now its gm's turn which is good for us because now we have faster cars to play with isn't that what its about anyway..... puppy kicking a 2v just wasn't very much fun.... what i wanna know is where the fuck is dodge in all this, better strap a blower to that 392!!!

Would be nice to see some Mopar action mixing it up.

Yea maybe, but i honestly dont think in stock trim the GT500 has enough tire to surpass the ZL1 on the skid pad. The best we have seen is .98? to the ZL's 1.03(Insideline) Someone correct me if im wrong im just going off the top of my head. With an aftermarket set of wheels and tires i think it can def match or surpass a stock ZL on the skid pad. But i do recall the Ford engineers saying the reason they didnt go with the bigger tire in the rear was due to it causing the car to under steer.

The plain old gt i think is rated at .98. that should be a little telling right there. if you google 2012 shelby gt500 at vir, you'llfind a good video of the 2012 that ran last year. note the g-meter on it. it tops 1.1 a couple of times. supposedlhy that car was stock, but i don't know for sure.

the skidpad isn't the end all\be all for handling. you need to get out on the track for that, like they did vs the boss302.

almost forgot......1.03 to .98.........miniscule difference. like truly not worth mentioning.

The ZL1 is pretty close to the 2011/2012 GT500, but it still has some catching up to do :lol:

Hmmm have to disagree here, have you watched the 2011/2012 GT500 at VIR? The car is all over the place. Looks like a huge handful for a driver. The beast constantly wants to drift around corners.(prob hanging around Vaughn gittin Jr too much). The ZL is very composed by comparison and VIR is supposed to be a very clean smooth track which i would think would be live axle friendly especially with all the long straightaways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7PIZhFUdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5heLDdlJfbE

The plain old gt i think is rated at .98. that should be a little telling right there. if you google 2012 shelby gt500 at vir, you'llfind a good video of the 2012 that ran last year. note the g-meter on it. it tops 1.1 a couple of times. supposedlhy that car was stock, but i don't know for sure.

the skidpad isn't the end all\be all for handling. you need to get out on the track for that, like they did vs the boss302.

almost forgot......1.03 to .98.........miniscule difference. like truly not worth mentioning.

So if you buy the "Track Pack" upgrade for 8,000$ for the GT500 you dont gain any handling over a reg GT? The "G"meter on the ZL vid shows reading well over 1.2 and even hitting 1.3 and even higher. When someone measures "Gs" on a skid pad they are measuring around a 200ft diameter "sustained" radius turn and not track sweeping turns and what not. Prob a reason reviewers dont use tracks as a way of measuring skid pad numbers.

Hmmm have to disagree here, have you watched the 2011/2012 GT500 at VIR? The car is all over the place. Looks like a huge handful for a driver. The beast constantly wants to drift around corners.(prob hanging around Vaughn gittin Jr too much). The ZL is very composed by comparison and VIR is supposed to be a very clean smooth track which i would think would be live axle friendly especially with all the long straightaways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7PIZhFUdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5heLDdlJfbE


actually, they both look the same.

So if you buy the "Track Pack" upgrade for 8,000$ for the GT500 you dont gain any handling over a reg GT? The "G"meter on the ZL vid shows reading well over 1.2 and even hitting 1.3 and even higher. When someone measures "Gs" on a skid pad they are measuring around a 200ft diameter "sustained" radius turn and not track sweeping turns and what not. Prob a reason reviewers dont use tracks as a way of measuring skid pad numbers.

no, what i'm saying is that the guy didn't drive the shelby to its potential on the skidpad.
and i know what the difference is. also, the shelby was up there in g readings too......and didn't go off track, as the camaro guy did. just re-watched. the shelby hit 1.2 several times.

actually, they both look the same.

You can literally count every single time the GT500 gets sideways and the driver is counter steering which is loss of traction and loss of time hence the 6 second gap. They both actually manage to slightly go off the track in the same spot, must be common since that area is void of grass.

Hmmm have to disagree here, have you watched the 2011/2012 GT500 at VIR? The car is all over the place. Looks like a huge handful for a driver. The beast constantly wants to drift around corners.(prob hanging around Vaughn gittin Jr too much). The ZL is very composed by comparison and VIR is supposed to be a very clean smooth track which i would think would be live axle friendly especially with all the long straightaways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7PIZhFUdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5heLDdlJfbE

Looks like he was driving both cars pretty hard and messed up a few times but just look at the mph at the end of the straights thats alot.

Looks like he was driving both cars pretty hard and messed up a few times but just look at the mph at the end of the straights thats alot.

which are you referring to? both or 1 in particular? This track i would imagine being really fast for the 2013 GT500, the straightaways should be huge to make up time with the extra hp/tq though i wouldnt imagine Nurburgring being very friendly at all since it really only has 1 good straightaway and the rest of it being very tight and demanding surfaces.

which are you referring to? both or 1 in particular? This track i would imagine being really fast for the 2013 GT500, the straightaways should be huge to make up time with the extra hp/tq though i wouldnt imagine Nurburgring being very friendly at all since it really only has 1 good straightaway and the rest of it being very tight and demanding surfaces.

Sorry that was a little unclear, I was talking about the advantage the ZL1 had at the end of the straights on top of the fact it handles better.

You can literally count every single time the GT500 gets sideways and the driver is counter steering which is loss of traction and loss of time hence the 6 second gap. They both actually manage to slightly go off the track in the same spot, must be common since that area is void of grass.



if you watch closely, you'll notice the camaro's driver counter-steering in the same places, including just before his off-track excursion.

that said, i was wrong on my statement of "the gt is rated at .98g". it's only rated at .96

an older vid vs the m3 by motortrend.....fast forward to about 2:20 or so, unless you want to watch the whole thing.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwSPccbzl4

Looks like he was driving both cars pretty hard and messed up a few times but just look at the mph at the end of the straights thats alot.

different drivers, different times. the shelby video is older i think.

different drivers, different times. the shelby video is older i think.

It still shows that it's better then the car it was built to go after BUT you are correct there's to many variables to be apples to apples. Now put your spoon away!!!!!!!!

Going to take a heck of a lot more than a pulley to run with the GT500.

Heck the 700hp Hennessey Camaro seems to have a problem running with the GT500.

It still shows that it's better then the car it was built to go after BUT you are correct there's to many variables to be apples to apples. Now put your spoon away!!!!!!!!

i can't. if i do, there's a couple of the chevy nuthuggers in here that won't have anything to bitch at then. :devil:

..........
"Honestly, babe! I know that Mustang just beat the ever living shit out of me from that last stoplight, but I swear I can beat him by a good 3/4's of a second on a closed 2.5 mile road course. Come on...I'll find a Taco Bell so we can turn that frown upside down and get you your favorite Double Decker Taco. Let me check my navigation to see where one is...fuck."

..........

Quoting yourself=FAIL

Quoting yourself=FAIL

Yourself = Fail

Yourself = Fail

Posting the same thing in multiple threads just to look cool and I'm the fail keep trying......:)

no, what i'm saying is that the guy didn't drive the shelby to its potential on the skidpad.
and i know what the difference is. also, the shelby was up there in g readings too......and didn't go off track, as the camaro guy did. just re-watched. the shelby hit 1.2 several times.

i saw where the shelby hit 1.2 look at the camaro vid it hits 1.6. just sayin. the camaro hit 1.4 numerous times. although thats not the 2013 gt 500.

Posting the same thing in multiple threads just to look cool and I'm the fail keep trying......:)

Pippi Longstocking

no, what i'm saying is that the guy didn't drive the shelby to its potential on the skidpad.
and i know what the difference is. also, the shelby was up there in g readings too......and didn't go off track, as the camaro guy did. just re-watched. the shelby hit 1.2 several times.

So every review that shows negatively of either vehicle can always come down to "the driver didnt take the car to its pontential"?

It still shows that it's better then the car it was built to go after BUT you are correct there's to many variables to be apples to apples. Now put your spoon away!!!!!!!!

why cant this be an apples-apples comparison? these are official lap times by factory drivers.

actually, they both look the same.

if they looked the same there wouldnt be a 6sec gap in time given how close the cars are in performance.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

The plain old gt i think is rated at .98. that should be a little telling right there. if you google 2012 shelby gt500 at vir, you'llfind a good video of the 2012 that ran last year. note the g-meter on it. it tops 1.1 a couple of times. supposedlhy that car was stock, but i don't know for sure.

the skidpad isn't the end all\be all for handling. you need to get out on the track for that, like they did vs the boss302.

almost forgot......1.03 to .98.........miniscule difference. like truly not worth mentioning.

BTW .98g is what MT got for the GT500 on the skid pad, they also got the highest 1/4 mile time for it too so i doubt its lack of driver skill not getting a higher reading on the skid pad.

why cant this be an apples-apples comparison? these are official lap times by factory drivers.

i don't know who was driving the camaro, but i think that they said it was one of the engineers driving the shelby.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

the shelbys in your link aren't the 013 model yet.

why cant this be an apples-apples comparison? these are official lap times by factory drivers.

Even if they had the same drivers for each car you still have to factor in weather and track conditions and that could make a big difference.

the shelbys in your link aren't the 013 model yet.

correct, no VIR or Ring times have been released, i listed the link to show both times were "official" lap times.

Even if they had the same drivers for each car you still have to factor in weather and track conditions and that could make a big difference.

I would assume when the factory runs an official lap time in road racing or 1/4 mile they do so in favorable track/weather conditions.

I would assume when the factory runs an official lap time in road racing or 1/4 mile they do so in favorable track/weather conditions.

I agree but people will argue that they either pad the numbers or the car may have a little extra so in order to "try" to silence the crap talkers you have to have the same driver on the same day but even then some people will argue the facts because it doesn't suit thier believes.