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I have been doing some research on and off for quite some time and I would like to try my hand at paint correction or I assume that to be the correct term. I have several older crappy cars that I can practice on so getting the experience is not a problem but what brand of tool and polishing solutions would be best to start with? I was looking at Adams cyclo with their two stage paint correction system, it's pricey but I would prefer to spend more money and get the right tool the first time.
What I did was bought the Harbor Freight dual action polisher and then went to Adams website and purchased their paint correcting compound and polish kit, with the matching pads. The Adams stuff works great, as well as my Harbor Freight dual action polisher. Is the Adams machine better; I'm sure it is way better, but the Harbor Freight machine I have works great, and I've done nearly 10 paint corrections with it since I bought it, and it still runs like a champ and has been able to remove all the swirl marks and marring out of all the different jobs I've done. What I like about the Adams stuff is it's color-coded in regards to the products and the pads.
Here is a thread I made a while back. This was with using all Adams products.
As far as brands you have quite a few options. There are so many on the market. Meguiar's, Mothers, Wolfgang, Menzerna and HD Car Care are just a few that can also get the job done. Americana Car Care has become one of my favorites. They are on the verge of releasing their new compound and polish.
My go to polish has been Meguiar's M205. Compound wise ultimate compound is very user friendly. M105 has a slight learning curve and although it offers good correction it dusts quite a bit and has a short working time. I have been using Meguiar's D300 compound with their new thin foam pads which works great. I use it because it does not dust or dust very little.
What I did was bought the Harbor Freight dual action polisher and then went to Adams website and purchased their paint correcting compound and polish kit, with the matching pads. The Adams stuff works great, as well as my Harbor Freight dual action polisher. Is the Adams machine better; I'm sure it is way better, but the Harbor Freight machine I have works great, and I've done nearly 10 paint corrections with it since I bought it, and it still runs like a champ and has been able to remove all the swirl marks and marring out of all the different jobs I've done. What I like about the Adams stuff is it's color-coded in regards to the products and the pads.
Here is a thread I made a while back. This was with using all Adams products.
Very informative thread, thank you. Definitely sounds like the Adams polish is a good option from everything I have read so far. I'm slightly leery of a harbour freight polisher just because they tend to be hit or miss when it comes to quality of tools from past experience but I'll definitely consider it if the price is right.
What about paint clear coat/paint thickness? If I get serious and start doing a lot of corrections, should I look into buying a tool for measuring the remaining clear coat? I will mostly be doing work on factory paint but my end goal would be to perform paint corrections on my T/A when I'm confident in my abilities and it has custom paint.
Down the road, sure, but just starting out, I wouldn't bother. Like I said, I've done at least 10 to date. All various makes, models, years, etc. All of them have turned out the same. Nearly every defect in the paint was removed, aside from the deep scratches that are way down into the actual paint. I always point that out to the customer beforehand. Like on that Dodge Cummins dually, which was my buddies truck, he would get in and out of the bed of the truck and his belt buckle scratched it up over the rear wheel-well really bad. I told him up front I wouldn't be able to do anything about that.
As far as brands you have quite a few options. There are so many on the market. Meguiar's, Mothers, Wolfgang, Menzerna and HD Car Care are just a few that can also get the job done. Americana Car Care has become one of my favorites. They are on the verge of releasing their new compound and polish.
My go to polish has been Meguiar's M205. Compound wise ultimate compound is very user friendly. M105 has a slight learning curve and although it offers good correction it dusts quite a bit and has a short working time. I have been using Meguiar's D300 compound with their new thin foam pads which works great. I use it because it does not dust or dust very little.
I'll check out the HF DA since it has two recommendations so far. All the available polish and compounds are a bit overwhelming, would it be safer to start out with a less aggressive pad and polish until I have a feel for how much paint I'm removing?
Down the road, sure, but just starting out, I wouldn't bother. Like I said, I've done at least 10 to date. All various makes, models, years, etc. All of them have turned out the same. Nearly every defect in the paint was removed, aside from the deep scratches that are way down into the actual paint. I always point that out to the customer beforehand. Like on that Dodge Cummins dually, which was my buddies truck, he would get in and out of the bed of the truck and his belt buckle scratched it up over the rear wheel-well really bad. I told him up front I wouldn't be able to do anything about that.
I agree, I always do a quick walk around and let them know and point out the ones I will not be able to get out.
In general I would not worry about clear coat depth at this point like said by Phoenix.
I have wet sanded factory paint without going threw.
Also 3m makes very nice polishing products.
Down the road, sure, but just starting out, I wouldn't bother. Like I said, I've done at least 10 to date. All various makes, models, years, etc. All of them have turned out the same. Nearly every defect in the paint was removed, aside from the deep scratches that are way down into the actual paint. I always point that out to the customer beforehand. Like on that Dodge Cummins dually, which was my buddies truck, he would get in and out of the bed of the truck and his belt buckle scratched it up over the rear wheel-well really bad. I told him up front I wouldn't be able to do anything about that.
Got it, I'll keep it simple for now then. I think your other thread mentioned Junkman on YouTube, I'll see if I can watch a few episodes after work...
If I can get results anywhere close to what you got out of that truck I'll be very happy. If I can figure out what NOT to do and keep screw ups to a minimum that will help.
I'll check out the HF DA since it has two recommendations so far. All the available polish and compounds are a bit overwhelming, would it be safer to start out with a less aggressive pad and polish until I have a feel for how much paint I'm removing?
With a d.a you would really have to try to wreck paint beyond repair. I don't know much about Adams products but I think m205 and m105 with the corresponding pads is a good starting point. A lot of times also you can get away with a fine polish and non aggressive pad depending if they are light scratches
With a d.a you would really have to try to wreck paint beyond repair. I don't know much about Adams products but I think m205 and m105 with the corresponding pads is a good starting point. A lot of times also you can get away with a fine polish and non aggressive pad depending if they are light scratches
Awesome, what kind of life expectancy should I see with a polishing pad?
Awesome, what kind of life expectancy should I see with a polishing pad?
For me it depends on the vehicle im doing.
The pads will last a few vehicles if you clean them right.
Like a few weekends ago I polished my buddies nice black Lexus so I used a brand new one on it.
But if it's a daily that sees a lot of road I will grab one of my used ones that will still do the job.
When someone asks me to do a paint correction I ask them if it's a daily, if it's driven in the winter, if it sees automatic carwashes then I go from there on what type of products I will use due to im not going to use my expensive 3m and a new pad on a $5,000 daily that sees winter and automatic carwashes. I will use a used pad and m205 or something like that.
Here is a picture of my reflection in the hood of my buddies black Lexus when I was done
Got it, I'll keep it simple for now then. I think your other thread mentioned Junkman on YouTube, I'll see if I can watch a few episodes after work...
If I can get results anywhere close to what you got out of that truck I'll be very happy. If I can figure out what NOT to do and keep screw ups to a minimum that will help.
Watch the Junkman's videos, as he teaches you the right technique in regards to how to make passes with the polisher, the correct tempo, and the correct pressure to put on the polisher. Honestly, most of that is going to come from experience, and trust me, the more you do it, the more you're going to get a feel for how fast of passes you need to make and how much pressure is needed. That too is going to depend on vehicle, as different manufactures paints are different. The beauty of a dual action polisher is that it's virtually impossible to screw up (burn through the clearcoat).
I'll check out the HF DA since it has two recommendations so far. All the available polish and compounds are a bit overwhelming, would it be safer to start out with a less aggressive pad and polish until I have a feel for how much paint I'm removing?
If you are looking to start out I would go to your local parts store and pick up some Meguiar's ultimate compound and ultimate polish. They are derived from the pro line and can do some amazing things.
Ultimate Compound is derived from M105 with UC being more user friendly. M105 is more aggressive than UC in terms of correction. I would not recommend starting off with M105 especially for someone new at this. It's frustrations outweigh the pro's of the product. M100 and M101 are much better products. I for one don't have M105 in my arsenal anymore. I replaced it with M101 and D300.
Ultimate Polish is derived from M205. The difference between the two is that UP offers more polishing oils where as M205 offers more correction. I would recommend M205 over UP. Both are user friendly but M205 is more versatile. It's correction ability can be changed by whatever pad is being used. For example it can be used with a cutting pad for more correction or with a finishing pad where one has soft paint.
So for you I would recommend UC and M205. For your wax protection are you looking for something that lasts longer or gives depth?
Originally Posted by s7ven
Awesome, what kind of life expectancy should I see with a polishing pad?
Since you are only going to be doing your car they will last awhile. I would recommend you clean them after using them. All Purpose Cleaner like Meguiar's D101 works well.
Originally Posted by 98CayenneT/A
For me it depends on the vehicle im doing.
The pads will last a few vehicles if you clean them right.
Like a few weekends ago I polished my buddies nice black Lexus so I used a brand new one on it.
But if it's a daily that sees a lot of road I will grab one of my used ones that will still do the job.
When someone asks me to do a paint correction I ask them if it's a daily, if it's driven in the winter, if it sees automatic carwashes then I go from there on what type of products I will use due to im not going to use my expensive 3m and a new pad on a $5,000 daily that sees winter and automatic carwashes. I will use a used pad and m205 or something like that.
Here is a picture of my reflection in the hood of my buddies black Lexus when I was done
Nice job. This brings up another interesting topic. Not all paints are the same. Some are soft, some are hard, some extremely hard and some just fall in the middle (medium). F-bodies tend to be on the medium to hard side. Lexus has been known to have soft paint.
There is no procedure when it comes to paint correction. The most important thing to do first is the test spot with the least aggressive method.
For example M205 on a polishing pad. If you are satisfied with the correction then continue and then proceed to your wax or sealant. If you need more correction then you would go to the compound on a cutting pad. Then polishing would refine the paint and add that gloss.
Check out Mike Phillips on Autogeek's youtube channel. Also check out Larry of Ammo NYC on youtube. Those are two additional sources.
Nice job. This brings up another interesting topic. Not all paints are the same. Some are soft, some are hard, some extremely hard and some just fall in the middle (medium). F-bodies tend to be on the medium to hard side. Lexus has been known to have soft paint.
Thanks and yes very true, this Lexus paint was pretty soft. Last weekend I did a Mercedes and the paint was on the hard side
I'll just throw mine out there. We all have our certain products and methods we used. Here is a thread that I made to keep track of what I use, and new things I've tried. I'm no pro, but I've had good results.
Watch the Junkman's videos, as he teaches you the right technique in regards to how to make passes with the polisher, the correct tempo, and the correct pressure to put on the polisher. Honestly, most of that is going to come from experience, and trust me, the more you do it, the more you're going to get a feel for how fast of passes you need to make and how much pressure is needed. That too is going to depend on vehicle, as different manufactures paints are different. The beauty of a dual action polisher is that it's virtually impossible to screw up (burn through the clearcoat).
Thanks for referring me to the Junkman, I watched almost every detailing video he had on his channel. I have to say I really enjoyed his no-bullshit clear explanation of how to do everything, much better than videos made by companies that seems like they are trying way to hard to sell a product.
I think I will end up going with the PC 7424XP & 5" back plate after all the reading, recommendations, and videos. I'll probably stick to Meguiars for compound/polish and pick up some orange/white hexlogic pads. After watching Junkman and a few other videos I have come up with what I believe is the right step-by-step procedure for paint correction with a PC:
Paint Correction Preparation
Rinse all the loose dirt off of the car with water
Foam gun the entire car
Using 2 buckets(1 soap & 1 rinse) with grit guards, wash the car. Use dawn dish detergent first time to remove wax/sealants.
Water-dry the car
Dry the car, preferrably with leaf blower or some other high volume air system
Claybar the entire car with clay lube or detail spray one section at a time, inspecting to ensure total paint contamination removal
Wash and completely dry the car again
The paint should now be totally clean and free of all contaminants
Paint Correction with PC 7424XP
Choose a 1.5x1.5 foot body section that requires the most paint correction. (test spot)
Attach least agressive pad to the polisher (white)
Dispense 4 pea-sized drops of polish along the inner perimeter of the pad (M205)
Spritz the pad lightly with detailing spray
Put polisher power cable over shoulder
With polisher off, briefly touch polisher pad throughout entire test area until good coverage is achieved
Set polisher to a speed setting of 1 and make a quick pass spreading the polish over the entire working area, the pad is now primed. (Put the polisher on the paint before turning the polisher on)
Using a speed setting of 5 and 9-14lbs. of pressure at 90* to the working surface, slowly move the polisher accross the work surface in a cross-hatch pattern.
Continue to polish in a cross-hatch pattern until the polish has flashed (turn the unit off while it is still actively moving on the paint)
Immediately remove polish with a quality towel and inspect the area
If significant additional paint correction is required, repeat the process with a more agressive cutting pad and compound (orange pad & M105) until desired correction is achieved. (Within reason)
If compound and cut pad must be used, follow-up with a polishing pad and polish
Once an idea of how much correction is required from the test area, continue to the next section of the car and repeat the process
Clean pads
Seal and/or wax the paint for protection
Avoid touching the paint as much as possible and hopefully never use anymore than a white pad and polish on the paint ever again.
If you are looking to start out I would go to your local parts store and pick up some Meguiar's ultimate compound and ultimate polish. They are derived from the pro line and can do some amazing things.
Ultimate Compound is derived from M105 with UC being more user friendly. M105 is more aggressive than UC in terms of correction. I would not recommend starting off with M105 especially for someone new at this. It's frustrations outweigh the pro's of the product. M100 and M101 are much better products. I for one don't have M105 in my arsenal anymore. I replaced it with M101 and D300.
Ultimate Polish is derived from M205. The difference between the two is that UP offers more polishing oils where as M205 offers more correction. I would recommend M205 over UP. Both are user friendly but M205 is more versatile. It's correction ability can be changed by whatever pad is being used. For example it can be used with a cutting pad for more correction or with a finishing pad where one has soft paint.
So for you I would recommend UC and M205. For your wax protection are you looking for something that lasts longer or gives depth?
Since you are only going to be doing your car they will last awhile. I would recommend you clean them after using them. All Purpose Cleaner like Meguiar's D101 works well.
Nice job. This brings up another interesting topic. Not all paints are the same. Some are soft, some are hard, some extremely hard and some just fall in the middle (medium). F-bodies tend to be on the medium to hard side. Lexus has been known to have soft paint.
There is no procedure when it comes to paint correction. The most important thing to do first is the test spot with the least aggressive method.
For example M205 on a polishing pad. If you are satisfied with the correction then continue and then proceed to your wax or sealant. If you need more correction then you would go to the compound on a cutting pad. Then polishing would refine the paint and add that gloss.
Check out Mike Phillips on Autogeek's youtube channel. Also check out Larry of Ammo NYC on youtube. Those are two additional sources.
Thanks for the additional info, I wonder how soft my paint on my firebird would be since it's custom? The guy who owned the car before me had it painted, I really avoid touching my paint as much as possible but I still have a few scratches and a lot of rock chips, I'm not sure if that is an indication of soft clear coat or maybe it's just thin? Probably should be another thread but is there anything I can do for rock chips or do I have to repaint? Mostly on the bumper but there are a few on the hood.
I am looking for more depth than protection, the car never sees rain or snow and is only driven on the weekends, I have used Zaino for protection most recently. I'll check out the additional references you listed.
Thanks for referring me to the Junkman, I watched almost every detailing video he had on his channel. I have to say I really enjoyed his no-bullshit clear explanation of how to do everything, much better than videos made by companies that seems like they are trying way to hard to sell a product.
I think I will end up going with the PC 7424XP & 5" back plate after all the reading, recommendations, and videos. I'll probably stick to Meguiars for compound/polish and pick up some orange/white hexlogic pads. After watching Junkman and a few other videos I have come up with what I believe is the right step-by-step procedure for paint correction with a PC:
Paint Correction Preparation
Rinse all the loose dirt off of the car with water
Foam gun the entire car - Optional
Using 2 buckets(1 soap & 1 rinse) with grit guards, wash the car. Use dawn dish detergent first time to remove wax/sealants. Stick with a car wash soap. Dish soap should be left for the dishes. You will be using M105 or M205 and that will remove any previous wax or sealant. On top of that dish soap will not remove most sealants on the market. Dish soap has surfactants which is what is seen. Follow that up with an IPA wipe and the beading returns as the surfactants have been removed. Their is a thread about this over on Autogeek.
Water-dry the car
Dry the car, preferrably with leaf blower or some other high volume air system - This is also optional if you don't have these tools. A waffle weave or plush drying tool will do the job. If you do have a leaf blower be sure it is electric and not gas. The gas powered one will throw contaminants back onto the car. Two preferred drying media are these. I'm a fan of the edgeless.
Claybar the entire car with clay lube or detail spray one section at a time, inspecting to ensure total paint contamination removal
Wash and completely dry the car again - This is also optional. I don't wash the car after claying. Use a microfiber as you do it to wipe off any residue and you don't have to wash.
The paint should now be totally clean and free of all contaminants
Paint Correction with PC 7424XP
Choose a 2x2 foot body section that requires the most paint correction. (test spot) Test spot is the best advice. You can start with a 2x2. Depending on the temperature and humidity you may have to decrease your work area.
Attach least agressive pad to the polisher (white)
Dispense 4 pea-sized drops of polish along the inner perimeter of the pad (M205)
I highly recommend you prime the pad using this method.
Spritz the pad lightly with detailing spray - Prime the pad as stated up above and you can avoid any detail spray. If working with M105 use water in a spray bottle as a wetting agent. Skip the detail spray.
Put polisher power cable over shoulder
With polisher off, briefly touch polisher pad throughout entire test area until good coverage is achieved
Set polisher to a speed setting of 1 and make a quick pass spreading the polish over the entire working area, the pad is now primed. (Put the polisher on the paint before turning the polisher on) - You can do this at speed 3. If you prime it the way above then you can just tap the pad on the paint and spread it out and then start working.
Using a speed setting of 5 and 9-14lbs. of pressure at 90* to the working surface, slowly move the polisher accross the work surface in a cross-hatch pattern. Technique is important. You want just enough pressure to were the backing plate is spinning but not spinning fast. Slow arm movement is key.
Continue to polish in a cross-hatch pattern until the polish has flashed (turn the unit off while it is still actively moving on the paint) - I am going to throw a curve ball at you. M105 and M205 use non-diminishing abrasives. They will not flash like a diminishing abrasive. The abrasives do not break down like in a diminishing abrasive compound and polish. M105 does it's work fast so it only needs about 2-3 passes. Work it too much and it turns to concrete on the paint. It also dusts quite a bit. This is why I am recommending you to start with Ultimate Compound. It's much more user friendly and can do a great job. Just because it is sold over the counter does not make it junk. If you still more correction then you can move up to M105. M205 has a longer working time. 5-6 passes would be good with it.
Immediately remove polish with a quality towel and inspect the area
If significant additional paint correction is required, repeat the process with a more agressive cutting pad and compound (orange pad & M105) until desired correction is achieved. (Within reason)
If compound and cut pad must be used, follow-up with a polishing pad and polish
Once an idea of how much correction is required from the test area, continue to the next section of the car and repeat the process
Clean pads - If you have access to a compressor you can blow out the pads as you go. If not you can invest in a pad conditioning brush or clean the pad on the fly.
Seal and/or wax the paint for protection - You may need to wash the car again after polishing to remove all the compounding dust.
Avoid touching the paint as much as possible and hopefully never use anymore than a white pad and polish on the paint ever again.
Swirls are going to happen. Follow proper washing techniques and you can limit them. Rinseless washes are great if used properly. Quick detailers on light dusted surfaces are ok. If I use one I will use one swiping motion like when I rinseless wash and not wipe back and forth onto the paint. This eliminates grinding any dust onto the paint. Some paints are softer so they will swirl regardless. Even looking at them cause swirls and scratches. Harder paints tend to behave a little better. One thing you should consider is using a spray wax as a drying aid. You will be adding protection and lubrication to the surface which also helps in limiting defects. Also good towels are a must. Cheaper towels will scratch the paint.
Follow good practices and all you will need is a polish. You may need to spot compound but other than that a polish is all you need.
I would recommend the Lake Country Flat Pads. These pads are still some of the best. I would get these. They are thinner than the one's you posted. Thinner pads mean more rotation and better correction. You will take full advantage of the PC's power.
Thanks for the additional info, I wonder how soft my paint on my firebird would be since it's custom? The guy who owned the car before me had it painted, I really avoid touching my paint as much as possible but I still have a few scratches and a lot of rock chips, I'm not sure if that is an indication of soft clear coat or maybe it's just thin? Probably should be another thread but is there anything I can do for rock chips or do I have to repaint? Mostly on the bumper but there are a few on the hood.
I am looking for more depth than protection, the car never sees rain or snow and is only driven on the weekends, I have used Zaino for protection most recently. I'll check out the additional references you listed.
It's hard to say. The test spot will be the teller of how soft or hard the paint it. If this is more of a show car then a carnauba wax would probably be the way to go. I have used and like Meguiar's M26.
Since you have custom paint it may be harder to match the paint for those chips. It doesn't matter if the paint is hard or soft if a rock is flying at high speeds. But Dr. Color Chip and Langka make good kits.
06-18-2015 | 11:33 PM
Getting started with paint correction 
