Need advice on Escalade Transmission rebuild
02-08-2013, 01:16 PM
#141
Moderator
I just let my daughter get those difficult-to-reach bolts in and out for me; at least when she is visiting. And yes, she really does work on the car with me because she then gets to race it at the track.
Seriously, mantycarguys suggestions are great. I've tried magnets in the sockets, but that rarely works well. I'll try his paper towel trick in the future.
BTW - My car is on 4x jack stands. The hydraulic jack is there for additional safety.
Seriously, mantycarguys suggestions are great. I've tried magnets in the sockets, but that rarely works well. I'll try his paper towel trick in the future.
BTW - My car is on 4x jack stands. The hydraulic jack is there for additional safety.
02-09-2013, 05:16 AM
#142
And I bet she is a fine driver as well! You are lucky. Its hard to find good help.
That paper towel tip is a great idea! There just is no equal to a good dose of common sense! And the lng bolts as well. Dont know why I didnt think of that.
That paper towel tip is a great idea! There just is no equal to a good dose of common sense! And the lng bolts as well. Dont know why I didnt think of that.
02-11-2013, 09:52 AM
#143
Well I may be just sitting around in the rain worrying about this a bit too much but... I was reading a thread on here from some time back about someone who had used a beast sunshell and had an issue with the thickness of the beast causing some issues. I didnt see that they got to any resolution of that issue but what I did was install the plastic washer that came with the beast and discarded the one that was installed and used all the other parts as original. I did no checks for anything and the assembly went fine as far as I knew. I ran across this... http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInst...890-373900.pdf
and was wondering if I should have done some checking as they suggest to adjust for the sun shell change of thickness. I did not recieve anything with the beast I bought except the one replacement plastic washer which I used instead of the original. Should I be wary of this situation and be prepaired to shut the unit down if it makes a sound like it is rubbing or is then going to be too late. I would hope that the supplied washer would be made such that it takes care of this issue. What do you think? This transmission is in the car and just needs a little button up work and some fluids to be crank worthy.
and was wondering if I should have done some checking as they suggest to adjust for the sun shell change of thickness. I did not recieve anything with the beast I bought except the one replacement plastic washer which I used instead of the original. Should I be wary of this situation and be prepaired to shut the unit down if it makes a sound like it is rubbing or is then going to be too late. I would hope that the supplied washer would be made such that it takes care of this issue. What do you think? This transmission is in the car and just needs a little button up work and some fluids to be crank worthy.
02-11-2013, 10:31 AM
#144
Moderator
Did you check the end play?
If the endplay is OK, I'm pretty sure all these other thickness issues come out in the wash.
IIRC the endplay spec is .015 to .030. I personally aim for the low end or even a bit less (like .012) if I have brand new bearings.
If the endplay is OK, I'm pretty sure all these other thickness issues come out in the wash.
IIRC the endplay spec is .015 to .030. I personally aim for the low end or even a bit less (like .012) if I have brand new bearings.
02-11-2013, 10:42 AM
#145
I am afraid to say I did not check the end play. Dont ask me why. I guess I assumed that since I checked all the tollerances of the new steel/frictions as I went that the end play should not be changed and would be fine. Guess I should have checked that. OH well... live and learn I guess. Would excessive end play have been the cause of the problem i just addressed? I hope this doesnt become a exersize in take the transmission out and put it back in. I guess I will become faster at it though. Im gonna need a lift!
02-11-2013, 11:05 AM
#146
Moderator
No, an endplay issue did not cause you to lose reverse.
I suspect the washer supplied with The Beast was designed to keep the end play consistent.
If you assembled everything correctly, endplay should be just fine.
Checking endplay is partly a test to make sure no bearing or washer was forgotten.
I suspect the washer supplied with The Beast was designed to keep the end play consistent.
If you assembled everything correctly, endplay should be just fine.
Checking endplay is partly a test to make sure no bearing or washer was forgotten.
02-11-2013, 11:10 AM
#147
No, an endplay issue did not cause you to lose reverse.
I suspect the washer supplied with The Beast was designed to keep the end play consistent.
If you assembled everything correctly, endplay should be just fine.
Checking endplay is partly a test to make sure no bearing or washer was forgotten.
I suspect the washer supplied with The Beast was designed to keep the end play consistent.
If you assembled everything correctly, endplay should be just fine.
Checking endplay is partly a test to make sure no bearing or washer was forgotten.
02-11-2013, 01:42 PM
#148
Very rarely does endplay become an issue on a 4L60E even when swapping parts between different transmissions and replacing parts with new and or aftermarket parts. Should you have checked it? yes.. Would I lose any sleep over it? Probably not... As long as all parts are assembled correctly 98% of the time they are just fine with the original selective washer. Also FWIW the reverse input drum has nothing to do with end play either, you can forget to put it in completely and the end play will be exactly the same.
02-12-2013, 11:49 AM
#149
I seem to have some issues going on with the transmission. My worst fears have materialized I think. I brought the fluid up to level and went through all the gears in a stoped position and all seemd ok. Once theengine was up to temp I backedthe truck out of the driveway and drove around the block and all seemed fine. Came back and found I needed to top up the fluit a bit mor. After doing that I drove it around the block again.No problems seemed evident and I stoped and checked the flui again and it was fine. Well I drove around some more and found that the transmission would not shift to 2 while in D. It previously had been shifting fine.So I pulled it down ito 1 and then manually shifted to 2 and all was fine. It just seems that it has decided to quit upshifting in D. I did not push it to see if I could forc it to upshift. I didnt want to stress it this soon. I did notice that when the trans was initially shifting properly it seemed to have a slight slip in the 1 to 2 shift. Or maybe rather it seemed to stall going into 2nd a time or two. Any thoughts on this?
02-12-2013, 02:35 PM
#150
Moderator
If the trans will shift and work in all gears, then the internals are most likely working correctly.
Are you saying that it will shift into 2nd when you move from [D1] to [D2], but not when you leave it in [D4]/[OD]?
That sounds strange and is outside of my experience level. (Valve body leak ???)
With any problem related to shifting into 2nd, I would first check the servo and the band clearance. Perhaps the band is too loose.
Actually the first thing I would do is put the rear wheels up, hook up my HP Tuners scanner and try to force every gear change through the scanner. If you don't have such a scanner, your local trans shop can do that for you, probably for a very modest or free charge. They can easily check the band clearance too, and/or correct it with a one hour labor charge.
I am 90%+ confident this can be fixed without removing the trans.
However, I am not an expert at diagnosing problems.
Why not just let the local shop you previously visited check it out?
They will be impressed that you got this far.
Are you saying that it will shift into 2nd when you move from [D1] to [D2], but not when you leave it in [D4]/[OD]?
That sounds strange and is outside of my experience level. (Valve body leak ???)
With any problem related to shifting into 2nd, I would first check the servo and the band clearance. Perhaps the band is too loose.
Actually the first thing I would do is put the rear wheels up, hook up my HP Tuners scanner and try to force every gear change through the scanner. If you don't have such a scanner, your local trans shop can do that for you, probably for a very modest or free charge. They can easily check the band clearance too, and/or correct it with a one hour labor charge.
I am 90%+ confident this can be fixed without removing the trans.
However, I am not an expert at diagnosing problems.
Why not just let the local shop you previously visited check it out?
They will be impressed that you got this far.
02-12-2013, 02:51 PM
#151
If the trans will shift and work in all gears, then the internals are most likely working correctly.
Are you saying that it will shift into 2nd when you move from [D1] to [D2], but not when you leave it in [D4]/[OD]?
That sounds strange and is outside of my experience level. (Valve body leak ???)
With any problem related to shifting into 2nd, I would first check the servo and the band clearance. Perhaps the band is too loose.
Actually the first thing I would do is put the rear wheels up, hook up my HP Tuners scanner and try to force every gear change through the scanner. If you don't have such a scanner, your local trans shop can do that for you, probably for a very modest or free charge. They can easily check the band clearance too, and/or correct it with a one hour labor charge.
I am 90%+ confident this can be fixed without removing the trans.
However, I am not an expert at diagnosing problems.
Why not just let the local shop you previously visited check it out?
They will be impressed that you got this far.
Are you saying that it will shift into 2nd when you move from [D1] to [D2], but not when you leave it in [D4]/[OD]?
That sounds strange and is outside of my experience level. (Valve body leak ???)
With any problem related to shifting into 2nd, I would first check the servo and the band clearance. Perhaps the band is too loose.
Actually the first thing I would do is put the rear wheels up, hook up my HP Tuners scanner and try to force every gear change through the scanner. If you don't have such a scanner, your local trans shop can do that for you, probably for a very modest or free charge. They can easily check the band clearance too, and/or correct it with a one hour labor charge.
I am 90%+ confident this can be fixed without removing the trans.
However, I am not an expert at diagnosing problems.
Why not just let the local shop you previously visited check it out?
They will be impressed that you got this far.
Now what I am not sure about is whan I put it in D and let it select the gears itself I dont know for sure if it is starting in 1 or 2 and therefore making me think it is not shifting to 2 when it started in 2. I just had that thought and want to go out and drive it some more to see for sure what it is doing.
I thought the band seemed tight when I put it on but I was sure that the band was enguaged in the pin from the bottom through the VB. I thought I was sure that it was properly engaged by the servo pin as well. You are saying that I can access the band without taking the tranny out? I thought surely that required the removal of the trans.
I have read others say that it would shift to 2 if they let off on the throttle. Im going to try that aso.
The thing I went in to fix..REVERSE... works like a charm!
02-12-2013, 03:53 PM
#152
I have confirmed that the issue that starts happening after I run the transmission a bit to warm it up is as follows. Initally when I start to run the truck when it is not at operating temp yet the thing runs perfect in all respects. It warms up and then is when it begins to not downshift to 1 at a stop. It either remains in 2 or 3 and that is what it starts from and further more it does not upshift then as well. Strangly it will run fine if you manually select the gears.
02-12-2013, 04:12 PM
#153
Moderator
Glad to hear that it runs perfectly when cold; that pretty much confirms it was assembled correctly. Congrats on that!
Hopefully Carsonauto or other expert will chime in here, but I suspect the band clearance is off. That only requires removing the servo; there are several ways to change the clearance, but first lets get another opinion.
Hopefully Carsonauto or other expert will chime in here, but I suspect the band clearance is off. That only requires removing the servo; there are several ways to change the clearance, but first lets get another opinion.
02-12-2013, 04:37 PM
#154
Well that sounds easier than removing the transmission again. It is strange to me that it works so great when it is not warmed up. I sure dont want to take the unit out again but that doesnt mean I will not do it. I'd rather not though. lol I sure hope you are right about the band but I dont really know why that should have changed since I didnt change the pin at all. I simply put in new seals on the pistons in the servo.
02-12-2013, 05:07 PM
#155
Moderator
Did you put in a new band?
If the servo is easy to remove on your car, you might want to remove it and check those piston seals.
Also, if you do open the servo, there is a method of measuring the band clearance that Carsonauto documented for me, but which I cannot find right now. (I have my own way before I install the pump.) If you have the Transgo HD2 kit, it comes with special shims that are placed under the servo cover to tighten the band.
If the servo is easy to remove on your car, you might want to remove it and check those piston seals.
Also, if you do open the servo, there is a method of measuring the band clearance that Carsonauto documented for me, but which I cannot find right now. (I have my own way before I install the pump.) If you have the Transgo HD2 kit, it comes with special shims that are placed under the servo cover to tighten the band.
02-12-2013, 05:23 PM
#156
I did replace the band with a wider one and also the reverse input drum. I am not sure how difficult it is to remove the servo with the unit in the truck but I have heard it is a tight one. Im sure it CAN be done though. I did nothing to adjust for the new wider band on installation but do remember that I thought it seemed tight ot snug and wondered if that was right or not. I have seen something about the adjustment of the band and the travel of the servo pin and cutting it to adjust to the proper length. I will have to check that I guess i fI can figure out where I saw that again.
I did not remove all the valves in the VB and clean them. I had springs for some that I needed to replace from the kit and I did remove those and cleaned them. Otherwise I only cleaned the VB with the rest of the valvs still installed and then blew it off well and dry.
I did not remove all the valves in the VB and clean them. I had springs for some that I needed to replace from the kit and I did remove those and cleaned them. Otherwise I only cleaned the VB with the rest of the valvs still installed and then blew it off well and dry.
02-12-2013, 05:32 PM
#157
Moderator
Here is one way to test if the band is too tight:
* With rear wheels in the air, engine off, put trans in neutral.
* Try turning the driveshaft by hand both ways.
* It should be relatively easy one way and about three times harder the other way.
If you absolutely cannot turn it both ways, the band is too tight (or other problem).
You said "from the kit" - do you mean the HD2 kit?
If yes, then you have the Transgo servo shims.
If driveshaft turns both ways, install two shims and try again. If now too tight, go back to just one shim.
I don't think there is anything in the VB itself that would give this problem; I was thinking more that the gasket got ripped somewhere and you have a cross leak. However with your current symptoms, I don't think it is that either. I think it is band/servo related.
* With rear wheels in the air, engine off, put trans in neutral.
* Try turning the driveshaft by hand both ways.
* It should be relatively easy one way and about three times harder the other way.
If you absolutely cannot turn it both ways, the band is too tight (or other problem).
You said "from the kit" - do you mean the HD2 kit?
If yes, then you have the Transgo servo shims.
If driveshaft turns both ways, install two shims and try again. If now too tight, go back to just one shim.
I don't think there is anything in the VB itself that would give this problem; I was thinking more that the gasket got ripped somewhere and you have a cross leak. However with your current symptoms, I don't think it is that either. I think it is band/servo related.
02-12-2013, 05:53 PM
#158
Here is one way to test if the band is too tight:
* With rear wheels in the air, engine off, put trans in neutral.
* Try turning the driveshaft by hand both ways.
* It should be relatively easy one way and about three times harder the other way.
If you absolutely cannot turn it both ways, the band is too tight (or other problem).
You said "from the kit" - do you mean the HD2 kit?
If yes, then you have the Transgo servo shims.
If driveshaft turns both ways, install two shims and try again. If now too tight, go back to just one shim.
I don't think there is anything in the VB itself that would give this problem; I was thinking more that the gasket got ripped somewhere and you have a cross leak. However with your current symptoms, I don't think it is that either. I think it is band/servo related.
* With rear wheels in the air, engine off, put trans in neutral.
* Try turning the driveshaft by hand both ways.
* It should be relatively easy one way and about three times harder the other way.
If you absolutely cannot turn it both ways, the band is too tight (or other problem).
You said "from the kit" - do you mean the HD2 kit?
If yes, then you have the Transgo servo shims.
If driveshaft turns both ways, install two shims and try again. If now too tight, go back to just one shim.
I don't think there is anything in the VB itself that would give this problem; I was thinking more that the gasket got ripped somewhere and you have a cross leak. However with your current symptoms, I don't think it is that either. I think it is band/servo related.
This problem does begin with a minimal amount of driving before it starts to manifest itself. So I dont know if it is heat related or what. Maybe heat related caused by to tight of a band causing it to heat or begin to bind. I dont think it is flashing a CEL or I just didnt notice it.
Last edited by fishcrazy; 02-12-2013 at 05:58 PM.
02-12-2013, 07:18 PM
#159
Moderator
OK, you are referring to the kit you got from TruTechTrans.
Its a nice upgrade to get o-rings for the servo.
I've seen a stock/generic rebuild kits include springs to upgrade very old VBs, but I suspect your kit was specific to your year.
Looking through the ATSG manual, it mentions that problems with the 1-2 shift can be due to the band of course, but also the 1-2 shift valve (#366) in the VB. It also mentions "4th Servo piston in backwards", but I suspect that would not be heat related. (In any case, the taller **** on the piston is toward the cover.)
Its a nice upgrade to get o-rings for the servo.
I've seen a stock/generic rebuild kits include springs to upgrade very old VBs, but I suspect your kit was specific to your year.
Looking through the ATSG manual, it mentions that problems with the 1-2 shift can be due to the band of course, but also the 1-2 shift valve (#366) in the VB. It also mentions "4th Servo piston in backwards", but I suspect that would not be heat related. (In any case, the taller **** on the piston is toward the cover.)
02-12-2013, 09:30 PM
#160
I have not had any bright ideas tonight so far. I appreciate the tips you have thrown my way though. I dont know what to do with the band /servo adjustment if that is what needs to be done. As far as I know the stock servo doesnt have an adjustment and I at this point dont know enough to know if that is even my problem. Im gonna sleep on it.